+stephena Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 1. Do the ROM files have to be just the bin files, or does it work with the zip ones? 2. Does the save state option only work with one game at a time, or does each game you play get one save? 3. Are there any tear down videos? I need to check the cart slot that no longer works for damage and didn't see a way to take it apart, maybe under the leg pads? 1. Only bin files, and AFAIK only with the '.bin' extension, not '.a26' or anything else. This naming scheme, and lack of ZIP file support, is a limitation of the current frontend. Perhaps Stella will be extended in the future to also provide the frontend, in which case this restriction will disappear. 2. Each specific ROM has one save state. Internally, Stella specifies a ROM by its checksum (MD5, to be exact). The actual name of the ROM is irrelevant; its checksum is all that matters. So every different ROM you have gets a save state. This is a limitation of the current software. Specifically, Stella itself can support multiple states (in the main version, up to 10 per game). However, there is currently no way to switch between them on this hardware, so only one state is allowed. 3. See https://github.com/stella-emu/stella/wiki/Retron-77 for some info. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Well, I got the image to work with the rom limit lifted but only on the original card. If I use my other SD card all I get is black screen with no signal. So, retron 77 doesn't like my 512mb SD card or there is something unusual about the included 128mb SD card. The other thing is, it is back to not remembering my 4:3 setting. Andrew says Stephena's build is not included so, I guess I am back to corrupted stella config file. Not sure how John apparently got his working with the newer Stella. When I tried to do that it reverted back to the 18 game limit. Perhaps they will soon post a complete image with all the fixes included. Format the other SD card first, then you should be able to burn the image to it, I did this with a 16 GB card and the Retron recognized it. For anyone interested my review of the Retron77 is here with a focus on programming games to run on all Atari consoles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 For those that are interested, for now you can use one or the other of: My image containing Stella 3.9.3 and the fire button fix Latest Hyperkin image with no ROM limitations Both will not work at the same time. I am in the process of getting them to update their source tree to include the latest Stella changes, and then they can recompile and re-release. This is unfortunately one of the consequences of having multiple different groups working on the same codebase. Thanks again, StephenA! I wanted a technical answer from RetroN. It seems that version 1 of the front end menu let you use other builds of the Stella emulator, and version 2 of the front end DOES NOT let you use other builds of Stella. The RetroN representative said they are making it end-user accessible so the community can add our own builds of Stella, and version 2 of your front end seems to removed that ability! Thanks again to StephenA (who doesnt have to do anything) for explaining why it looks this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHairy Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 3. Are there any tear down videos? I need to check the cart slot that no longer works for damage and didn't see a way to take it apart, maybe under the leg pads? Screws under the leg pads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Maybe there is a way to hack-in a mouse/kybd combo so that Stella's PC features can be accessed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) Maybe there is a way to hack-in a mouse/kybd combo so that Stella's PC features can be accessed? Good luck, as the new version of RetroN 77s front end menu doesn't allow us to use our own builds of Stella! After calming down from this infuriating fact, kindly write RetroN and kindly ask them why we were told we could use our own builds of the emulator and why this function was removed from the latest firmware. Sorry, I had misunderstood things due to having not yet updated my RetroN 77 to a new image. Edited July 17, 2018 by iesposta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Thanks again, StephenA! I want a technical answer FROM RETRON! RetroN, why does “version 1” of the front end menu let you use other builds of the Stella emulator, and “version 2” of the front end DOES NOT let you use other builds of Stella?! The RetroN representative said we will be able to use our own builds of Stella, and “version 2” of your front end has removed that ability! This is misleading, or at least the info you received is not clear. Let me clear this up; it is very simple: The files that are placed on the SD card (specifically, uImage) contain the entire filesystem, and all its apps (frontend, Stella, Linux commands, etc). Hyperkin have created an image that contains an updated 'frontend' binary, with the ROM limit removed I created an image with Stella updated to 3.9.3, and other fixes Both images are not compatible; you can install one or the other (for now) The problem (if you can call it that) is that unless one has a very technical background, one cannot look 'inside' the uImage and replace parts of it. If one could, they could take the latest one from Hyperkin and simply replace the Stella binary file with the one from my uImage. Since that isn't possible for most people, the only alternative is to release a uImage (or an entire '.img' file for that matter) that contains both the updated frontend and the updated Stella. This is what I'm the process of doing; getting Hyperkin to integrate the latest source code of Stella into their build system, so that when they create a new image for release, it will contain all their fixes and all my fixes. This is what I referred to earlier as the main problem with multiple groups working on the same codebase. Hyperkin has done nothing wrong here, and they have not disabled functionality. Nor I have done anything wrong. It's simply an issue of getting the two codebases synchonized. I think this was lost in the communication somehow. I can say this for a fact, since I ran 'diff' on their new code drop and noted that their only changes are in removing the ROM limit. There is nothing there that breaks Stella. Similarly, there is nothing in my code that "removed the ability" to use a different frontend, etc. This is strictly a distribution and logistics issue. We can't both release a uImage file, with different contents, and have it work. There has to be ONE image with all the fixes. And this is what I'm communicating with them, and what they are working on. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Maybe there is a way to hack-in a mouse/kybd combo so that Stella's PC features can be accessed? You'd need to first have a USB port, I guess. The Stella binary still includes all that functionality, so if a keyboard/mouse could be connected, I see no reason for it not to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Andrew from Hyperkin said on this thread something to the effect that they look forward to what the community can do to make changes to the open source parts of the RetroN 77 software. The way it now looks to the end-user is their original software was able to be replaced by an updated Stella and the second version of the firmware is not able to be replaced with an updated version of Stella. StephenA I know you have just tried to explain why, I still dont understand how that can be unless the new firmware is different. Why does your update work with version 1 firmware and not version 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Andrew from Hyperkin said on this thread something to the effect that they look forward to what the community can do to make changes to the open source parts of the RetroN 77 software. The way it now looks to the end-user is their original software was able to be replaced by an updated Stella and the second version of the firmware is not able to be replaced with an updated version of Stella. StephenA I know you have just tried to explain why, I still dont understand how that can be unless the new firmware is different. Why does your update work with version 1 firmware and not version 2? In order for the newer version of Stella to work with the new firmware, Hyperkin has to re-compile the new front end with it to work. Currently, there is a code conflict that prevents them both working, because Stephen and Hyperkin are working on things separately. Think of it as trying to get a 2004 car engine to run with a 2018 fuel injection system -it doesn't work out of the box without modification. We should get a re-compiled fix soon, I would hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 What you call 'firmware' is just a collection of binaries that will be run on the system. Some of these binaries are the 'frontend' (the menu you see when you turn on the device), Stella (obvious what that one is), dumper (the binary that controls dumping the cart to a ROM), etc. My 'firmware' (or collection of files) contains an updated Stella, but using the original frontend. Their 'firmware' contains an updated frontend, but the original Stella. The end-user (aka, you ) cannot easily open a 'firmware' image and change parts of it. So you can't copy the updated Stella binary from the old firmware to the new. The proper fix is for Hyperkin to include my updated source code for the latest version of Stella, so that when they create a new 'firmware', it automatically includes my changes as well as any changes that they make. This is what I am in the process of doing, when I get off work later this evening. Note that when I get home, I can create 'firmware' that includes updated Stella and updated frontend in about 5 minutes. I could (can?) then release it. But it wouldn't solve the overall problem. The proper solution is for me to send my changes to Hyperkin and have them integrate it into a new firmware release. Nothing is broken here, or being done wrong, etc. The only issue is one of timing and communication. And it is being worked on ... 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Currently, there is a code conflict that prevents them both working, because Stephen and Hyperkin are working on things separately. Think of it as trying to get a 2004 car engine to run with a 2018 fuel injection system -it doesn't work out of the box without modification. There isn't even a code conflict, just that Hyperkin released a firmware update before I sent them my changes, so it still has the original Stella. This is easily fixed. It is very similar to the following scenario: I release a new version of Stella (maybe 5.2) with some changes, based on Stella 5.1 Another member of the Stella team releases a new version of Stella (maybe 5.1.9) with some other changes, based on Stella 5.1, but not containing the changes from above In this case, we have two releases that both differ from 5.1, but also differ from each other (each one has a new feature that the other one doesn't have). This is precisely the case here; one has the new frontend, and one has the new Stella. We need an image which contains both. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I do not want to bother StephenA as it is not his job to offer anything. (I understand more than I just let on, as I was addressing Hyperkin.) If the only difference is the removal of the ROM limit, why was he able to add 3.9.3 over 3.7 at first, and unable to simply add it in the 2nd .img file? I asked for a technical explanation from RetroN. I’m sure the community here will need a non technical explanation because from a user perspective it doesn’t make sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Just sharing my R77 wallpaper. I made the border an empty transparent file and changed the selected invader to pink. LOVE the invader icons btw! IMG_1685.jpg backgr.png game.png Haha, that's awesome. So glad my icons came in handy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jstick Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 If the only difference is the removal of the ROM limit, why was he able to add 3.9.3 over 3.7 at first, and unable to simply add it in the 2nd .img file? He IS able to simply add it in the 2nd image file. Read this again: Note that when I get home, I can create 'firmware' that includes updated Stella and updated frontend in about 5 minutes. I could (can?) then release it. He would simply prefer to wait until Hyperkin release the code instead, as it is their product and they are providing support to users. The proper solution is for me to send my changes to Hyperkin and have them integrate it into a new firmware release. Nothing is broken here, or being done wrong, etc. The only issue is one of timing and communication. And it is being worked on ... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Did that new .img actually work for anyone? I tried putting it on a 512mb card and it said the result was 80mb. Looks like the files are there from windows but when I put it in my retron 77 it won't boot. Scared to try writing to my original 128mb card. Looks to me like the image was formatted for a 128Mb SD card. You'll need to expand the FAT partition to fill the remainder of the card. The tool I used to build my Raspberry Pi boot image had this option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 He IS able to simply add it in the 2nd image file. Read this again: He would simply prefer to wait until Hyperkin release the code instead, as it is their product and they are providing support to users. This is the most relevant issue here. When I released an updated firmware initially, it was for fixes to Stella itself. I am completely comfortable with this, as I am the maintainer for almost 15 years at this point. However, I didn't write the frontend software for this device, nor am I sure of its license. So I didn't want to modify and distribute it (otherwise I could have lifted the ROM limit myself with my very first release). Being the Stella maintainer, and it being under the GPL, I don't have to ask anyone's permission to do a new release for it. And the joystick fire bug was serious enough that it warranted a release. As for why I didn't release a new firmware with Hyperkins latest changes, well, I only read about them this morning, and my rev2 release was done a few days ago. And I am at work now, and don't have access to my home system (or the R77 for that matter), where testing would be done. Going forward, I am finished with development for Stella 3 for this device, and it makes sense to hand over my changes to Hyperkin. That way, all future releases will contain the most up-to-date version of Stella 3, and any fixes they provide. I may come back to this to work on Stella 5, if I have time and motivation. See my other posting about that ... 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipwreck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) Looks to me like the image was formatted for a 128Mb SD card. You'll need to expand the FAT partition to fill the remainder of the card. The tool I used to build my Raspberry Pi boot image had this option. I just bought a 64GB card to use, so I do not mess with the original card. If I do these steps mentioned by someone else, this will not work? It must be a 128GB card? If I format the card and THEN do these steps, will it work? Steps: 1. Download an unzip the .img file above. 2. I use etcher from https://etcher.io/ 3. Install etcher, run it, and select the.img file you downloaded for the first option. 4. Connect the Retron 77 SD card to your card reader, and select as the second option 5. Burn the file to your SD card. If all went well, you should get a confirmation notice 6. Copy your desired ROM files over to the 'Games' folder on the SD card 7. Play Atari. Note that there are no page transition animations. It works, but the UI is still basic. This will allow you to play 99% of the games the current Retron 77 cart dumper will not read. Edited July 16, 2018 by Shipwreck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I just bought a 64GB card to use, so I do not mess with the original card. If I do these steps mentioned by someone else, this will not work? It must be a 128GB card? If I format the card and THEN do these steps, will it work? Steps: 1. Download an unzip the .img file above. 2. I use etcher from https://etcher.io/ 3. Install etcher, run it, and select the.img file you downloaded for the first option. 4. Connect the Retron 77 SD card to your card reader, and select as the second option 5. Burn the file to your SD card. If all went well, you should get a confirmation notice 6. Copy your desired ROM files over to the 'Games' folder on the SD card 7. Play Atari. Note that there are no page transition animations. It works, but the UI is still basic. This will allow you to play 99% of the games the current Retron 77 cart dumper will not read. If the image was formatted for a bigger card than what you are using, then no, it won't work. Just use the original card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoJoe Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 If I do these steps mentioned by someone else, this will not work? It must be a 128GB card? 128MB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaltran Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I just bought a 64GB card to use, so I do not mess with the original card. If I do these steps mentioned by someone else, this will not work? It must be a 128GB card? If I format the card and THEN do these steps, will it work? Steps: 1. Download an unzip the .img file above. 2. I use etcher from https://etcher.io/ 3. Install etcher, run it, and select the.img file you downloaded for the first option. 4. Connect the Retron 77 SD card to your card reader, and select as the second option 5. Burn the file to your SD card. If all went well, you should get a confirmation notice 6. Copy your desired ROM files over to the 'Games' folder on the SD card 7. Play Atari. Note that there are no page transition animations. It works, but the UI is still basic. This will allow you to play 99% of the games the current Retron 77 cart dumper will not read. I used a 2gb card with windows disk imager and it worked fine, it will only show up as a 128mb with about 60 to 78mb free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipwreck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Well, I went and exchanged it for a 128GB card. I don't wanna use the existing one for now - so I have a way to go back to at least what I had before, in case I screw something up. All this is new to me. I don't wanna turn my Retcon into a brick if I screw something up on the original card. When I get home, I will try those steps with the new card and see what happens. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenafoot Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Hi everyone, here is the updated firmware that removes the limit of 18 homebrews per one SD card: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xb6Qo1785LWHtRgE9tNF41qqohqxGGoR/view?usp=sharing so it's unlimited now? .......or what's the new limit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 so it's unlimited now? .......or what's the new limit? Not sure if there is an upper limit, I have a bunch of pages of ROM files on mine now, similar to a Harmony cart. Doesn't support directories though, as far as I'm aware. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SqueezeBoxer77 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Well i updated my card and now for some reason i have huge bars on the top and bottom of my TV Screen when its plays games. For a Minute i thought it was my TV. But it dose the same thing on every TV in my house. I tried changing my Stella setting but nothing works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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