mr_me Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 What Pikointeractive is talking about is a backup service. US copyright law, and other jurisdictions, allows for the creation of an "archival" copy of computer software. The website will have to restrict download access to those that have a legitimate copy and the website owner would have to be able to show this if questioned. This limitation of the law does not work if the software is protected by drm. Another example of the problems with dmca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F34R Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 What Pikointeractive is talking about is a backup service. US copyright law, and other jurisdictions, allows for the creation of an "archival" copy of computer software. The website will have to restrict download access to those that have a legitimate copy and the website owner would have to be able to show this if questioned. This limitation of the law does not work if the software is protected by drm. Another example of the problems with dmca. That's not what it looks like in his post at all. The way it seems is Piko is talking about allowing others to have access to the archive he creates from games he owns. Doesn't mention anything like what you're suggesting. Did I miss something? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) What are you talking about? You're talking about having distribution rights to games you've bought. Have you come to some agreements with any of those 132 IP's you've purchased out of pocket to freely given them away? Do you compensate the IP creators for every rom download? Can you give more details on your project? I see. If you are the copyright owner by purchasing IP, you don't have to compensate the creator for each copy. Edited August 11, 2018 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F34R Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 I see. If you are the copyright owner by purchasing IP, you don't have to compensate the creator for each copy. I mistook the "purchased IP" as a way to say I bought the game lol. If Piko literally OWNS the IP, then I understand being able to allow whoever you want to download your property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Look, it's heir hides on the line, but frankly all EmuParadise had to do was remove the Nintendo first party stuff. None of the other publishers seem to care, and several are literally defunct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Maybe they can make a triumphant return, "by popular demand," now that they've gotten all this media attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 " Oh yes the fuck I would. and away we go! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4 If I was a DVD pirate, I would burn this public service announcement onto every DVD I sold, just to stick it to the man! Gotta feel bad for that bicycle manufacturer in the video though. If only physical matter was as easy to duplicate as a data file. I deviced a matter duplicator that accepts raw elemental materials as input (all 92 of them or at least the non-radioactive ones), and duplicates anything placed inside the box, including biological matter up to and including humans. I just don't know how to go about buildimg one. Do you want clones of yourself to slave away at the 9-to-5 while you go out and have fun? Go for it, but don't be surprised if it leads to disagreements about who is the clone and who is real. Also if your clone commits a crime, good luck defending yourself in court if they arrest you instead. Yes, you have to feed the duplicator scrap or e-waste containing the necessary ingredients in sufficient quantity. You couldn't very well duplicate gold bars or atomic weapons without considerable stockpiles of valuable or illicit ore, but almost everything else is fair game, even if it's illicit street drugs or weapons. But I'm sure if someone patented such a device, the government would figure out a way to keep it out of the hands of end users... Now we can all have cheap but legit Little Samson carts, at least... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Here are some thoughts... We are such an infinitesimally small segment of the population, you tell most people what were into, and they yell Pac-Man! At you like Cameron Diaz brother in Theres Something about Mary. Franks and beans Franks-and beans! Still one of my alltime favorite movies. Cameron Diaz still got it btw. She was just as hot in Bad Teacher as she was in her Mary days. So many puns engrained into our pop culture. The "hair gel" doo comes to mind... Also pacman is legit. Today an attendant at a boot store (I bought a new pair of steel toe work boots today, to replace the ones I have been wearing for over a year), who was much younger than I, had a ms pacman tattoo on her arm. And I just had to show her my pacman tattoo as well. Yeah, I got one too... https://www.deviantart.com/kosmic-stardust/art/Fresh-Pacman-Ink-whakka-whakka-210149027 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 What are you talking about? You're talking about having distribution rights to games you've bought. Have you come to some agreements with any of those 132 IP's you've purchased out of pocket to freely given them away? Do you compensate the IP creators for every rom download? Can you give more details on your project? He is like the one guy on the planet selling legitamately aquired repro carts. Possibly the most valuable of his ip is the entire library of wisdom tree games:https://www.pikointeractive.com I've actually backed several of his kickstarters. Last I counted, there wasn't 132 games available on his site, so I assume they are works in progress or still in negotiation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman000 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 "Do you want clones of yourself to slave away at the 9-to-5 while you go out and have fun? Go for it, but don't be surprised if it leads to disagreements about who is the clone and who is real. Also if your clone commits a crime, good luck defending yourself in court if they arrest you instead. |:)" Always include an extra inorganic genetic marker in the unused part of your clones' DNA. Solves a lot of problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Always include an extra inorganic genetic marker in the unused part of your clones' DNA. Solves a lot of problems. Aside from the ethical problems, of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 He is like the one guy on the planet selling legitamately aquired repro carts. Possibly the most valuable of his ip is the entire library of wisdom tree games: https://www.pikointeractive.com I've actually backed several of his kickstarters. Last I counted, there wasn't 132 games available on his site, so I assume they are works in progress or still in negotiation? Since oct 2017 and now the list grew substantially. Check our steam page and gog page to see some of the new additions. I am going to be working on the website to make it sort of like a Wiki for all our ips. Scans of manuals and covers, each IP will have its page with info on different platform versions, news, etc. I think the most valuable ones would be between the snes top gear series, zero tolerance or glover. WT stayed in minor leagues. If I had the money I would buy a lot more stuff that is a lot more known. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parallax Scroll Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 https://www.pcworld.com/article/3296479/gaming/nintendo-suit-rom-emulation-game-preservation.html Nintendo's ridiculous war on ROMs threatens gaming history The emulation community plays a crucial role in preserving gaming's history. _______ Games need to be preserved It’s hard to care about Nintendo’s bottom line when the stakes are the entire industry's historical record though—which brings us to the heart of the issue, game preservation. It’s ironic that a digital industry is so terrible at preserving its history. Digital is forever, right? It’s just 1s and 0s, immutable code, ageless. Archiving film or ancient documents or whatever, the problems are physical—celluloid rotting or catching fire, paper succumbing to moisture or falling apart under harsh lights. But games? The problem is nobody cared. Or not that nobody cared, but that so few companies cared, and that they continue to not care. The situation’s gotten slightly better in the last decade or so, with remasters and remakes like Crash Bandicoot and Baldur’s Gate II and Homeworld and System Shock reviving classics for a modern audience. Remasters cost money though, and are (understandably) meant to make money. Thus we get the one-percent—the games so notorious or so beloved they’ll sell a second, a third, or even a fourth time. They're important games, don’t get me wrong. It’s fantastic that Shadow of the Colossus can still resonate with people in 2018 the way it did in 2005. I never would’ve guessed. It's still a self-selecting history though—like buying one of those “Greatest Hits of the ‘80s” CDs and thinking it’s representative of the era. Left to publishers, we will only get Mario and Skyrim and BioShock and so on. There’s so much more though—thousands of games, spanning eight console generations and multiple PC platforms, and Nintendo’s actions have endangered all of it. Sure, Nintendo is happy to sell you your fifth copy of Super Mario World or whatever, but what about Shadowrun for the SNES? Tell me where I can buy a legal copy of that. Or how about Secret of Evermore? Emulation saved these games for decades, and nobody’s stepped up with an alternative. Not Nintendo, not anyone. If emulation persists, it’s because of a failure on the part of the actual rights-holders, not the audience. Movie and music piracy dropped after the advent of Netflix and Spotify. The convenience of GOG.com wooed countless PC pirates, including myself, from downloading what we used to call “abandonware." But GOG.com still covers a mere sliver, and only PC games for the most part. You won't find old NES or SNES games there—not to mention platforms Nintendo doesn’t control. The company that currently calls itself Atari is happy to put out collections of certain top-tier games, but again it’s the core one percent of “classics” people remember. And what about games for the Vectrex? The TurboGrafx? No corporation is saving those. No corporation is bothering with reissues. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 "Do you want clones of yourself to slave away at the 9-to-5 while you go out and have fun? Go for it, but don't be surprised if it leads to disagreements about who is the clone and who is real. Also if your clone commits a crime, good luck defending yourself in court if they arrest you instead. |:)" Always include an extra inorganic genetic marker in the unused part of your clones' DNA. Solves a lot of problems. You know what's funny? Humans as well as many other species have tons of "junk" dna bowwored from other species, even other kingdoms. We share portions of our genetic code with bananas. Also a lot of the "junk" dna is deactivated viral genetic material. A virus can insert genetic code designed to replicate itself into our cells. Except when that code doesn't work and it simply becomes part of our code. Come to find out nature does has a lot of beta elements and bloat code. Every human cell contains about 1.5 gigabytes worth of code, or six billion pairs. That's more code in every cell than a 5" cd-rom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Since oct 2017 and now the list grew substantially. Check our steam page and gog page to see some of the new additions. I am going to be working on the website to make it sort of like a Wiki for all our ips. Scans of manuals and covers, each IP will have its page with info on different platform versions, news, etc. I think the most valuable ones would be between the snes top gear series, zero tolerance or glover. WT stayed in minor leagues. If I had the money I would buy a lot more stuff that is a lot more known. You have aquired the rights to top gear, zero tolerance, and glover? Wow. Did you manage to aquire a prototype build for Glober 2 (n64)? I heard this game was 85% finished according to wikipedia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 You have aquired the rights to top gear, zero tolerance, and glover? Wow. Did you manage to aquire a prototype build for Glober 2 (n64)? I heard this game was 85% finished according to wikipedia. Yes Source code included. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Wow sweet I had no idea either about Top Gear and Glover, not familiar but with name for Zero Tolerance. That's excellent you got the desirable Glover 2 that never made it and the source, because knowing your guy there from years of talking I have to wonder if that game could finally patched up into a complete form given time. Glover was a fine game that worked well back in the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Zero Tolerance is a first-person shooter. The same engine was used to port Duke Nukem 3D to the Genesis. It runs in emulators and stuff and is worth a peek to see the technology, though the game is a snooze. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Zero Tolerance is a first-person shooter. The same engine was used to port Duke Nukem 3D to the Genesis. It runs in emulators and stuff and is worth a peek to see the technology, though the game is a snooze. No, the engine that Duke Nukem 3D runs on is Phantasy Star I think. Zero Tolerance FPS engine is far superior that DK3D on Genesis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 No, the engine that Duke Nukem 3D runs on is Phantasy Star I think. Zero Tolerance FPS engine is far superior that DK3D on Genesis. If you say so ... they're both pretty naff, this isn't the Megadrive's strong suit. Internet rumors say DN3D is using a slightly modified Zero Tolerance engine. Wikipedia says Zero Tolerance was released into public domain by the original programmer. Wouldn't it be a setback for preservation, etc if Piko were to claim it and monetize it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 If you say so ... they're both pretty naff, this isn't the Megadrive's strong suit. Internet rumors say DN3D is using a slightly modified Zero Tolerance engine. Wikipedia says Zero Tolerance was released into public domain by the original programmer. Wouldn't it be a setback for preservation, etc if Piko were to claim it and monetize it? From the head of the company himself: http://www.seganerds.com/2016/08/07/the-secret-behind-duke-nukem-3d-for-sega-genesis/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azathoth Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 https://www.pcworld.com/article/3296479/gaming/nintendo-suit-rom-emulation-game-preservation.html Nintendo's ridiculous war on ROMs threatens gaming history The emulation community plays a crucial role in preserving gaming's history. Clickbait titled article written in Chicken Little sky-is-falling hyperbole. Did Nintendo seek out to prosecute any end users that actually play these games? What about the game dumpers, who I dunno, actually preserve this shit? C&D any emulator authors? No? Oh that's right, they just went after the people running a commercial, high profile, for-profit venture that relied primarily on illegally distributing copyrighted works. By the same logic, where's all the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth when Nintendo shuts down a Chinese sweatshop pumping out Famicom and GBA bootlegs? After all they are just helping to "preserve" games by distributing countless copies to customers may be unable to find them through normal channels or refuse to pay inflated second hand prices, and by proliferating thousands of copies of these games they'll be less likely to be lost to the sands of time. I also find it a bit hypocritical for people to be perfectly cool with a website turning a profit by illegally distributing commercial software, yet they'll scream to the heavens when a company throws out an emulator console running a pirated copy of their favorite emulator. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Ugh... that Zero Tolerance, when I last had a Genesis I had that game. Serious limitations but it was also pretty fun too which was surprising. And I don't see it having the same setup as Duke they don't look to put out the display the same way. And yes it's more mindless clickbait retardation that's working wonders on facebook all day so far. Everyone is attacking Nintendo like they made them remove their files at EP. No, they chose to, or if they didn't, they never did come out and say Nintendo made us do it, but everyone loves to find a scapegoat while whipping out the jump to conclusions mat from office space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 https://www.pcworld.com/article/3296479/gaming/nintendo-suit-rom-emulation-game-preservation.html Nintendo's ridiculous war on ROMs threatens gaming history The emulation community plays a crucial role in preserving gaming's history. _______ Games need to be preserved It’s hard to care about Nintendo’s bottom line when the stakes are the entire industry's historical record though—which brings us to the heart of the issue, game preservation. It’s ironic that a digital industry is so terrible at preserving its history. Digital is forever, right? It’s just 1s and 0s, immutable code, ageless. Archiving film or ancient documents or whatever, the problems are physical—celluloid rotting or catching fire, paper succumbing to moisture or falling apart under harsh lights. But games? The problem is nobody cared. Or not that nobody cared, but that so few companies cared, and that they continue to not care. The situation’s gotten slightly better in the last decade or so, with remasters and remakes like Crash Bandicoot and Baldur’s Gate II and Homeworld and System Shock reviving classics for a modern audience. Remasters cost money though, and are (understandably) meant to make money. Thus we get the one-percent—the games so notorious or so beloved they’ll sell a second, a third, or even a fourth time. They're important games, don’t get me wrong. It’s fantastic that Shadow of the Colossus can still resonate with people in 2018 the way it did in 2005. I never would’ve guessed. It's still a self-selecting history though—like buying one of those “Greatest Hits of the ‘80s” CDs and thinking it’s representative of the era. Left to publishers, we will only get Mario and Skyrim and BioShock and so on. There’s so much more though—thousands of games, spanning eight console generations and multiple PC platforms, and Nintendo’s actions have endangered all of it. Sure, Nintendo is happy to sell you your fifth copy of Super Mario World or whatever, but what about Shadowrun for the SNES? Tell me where I can buy a legal copy of that. Or how about Secret of Evermore? Emulation saved these games for decades, and nobody’s stepped up with an alternative. Not Nintendo, not anyone. If emulation persists, it’s because of a failure on the part of the actual rights-holders, not the audience. Movie and music piracy dropped after the advent of Netflix and Spotify. The convenience of GOG.com wooed countless PC pirates, including myself, from downloading what we used to call “abandonware." But GOG.com still covers a mere sliver, and only PC games for the most part. You won't find old NES or SNES games there—not to mention platforms Nintendo doesn’t control. The company that currently calls itself Atari is happy to put out collections of certain top-tier games, but again it’s the core one percent of “classics” people remember. And what about games for the Vectrex? The TurboGrafx? No corporation is saving those. No corporation is bothering with reissues. Couldn't have said it better myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 My point was - its easy to spend a lot of time on sites like this and get wrapped up in it all and think it is a huge part of pop culture. But really - it isnt. Its a tiny niche market tailored just for us. So when I see people who threaten to boycott Nintendo over roms its being taken done - I cant help but chuckle. We wont make any kind of dent they would ever even notice. We are an incredibly tiny minority. If you want to boycott - go ahead. It wont make any difference. But if we're so niche and don't matter, why is Nintendo even bothering to pay lawyers to do this? Why would they feel threatened at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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