Dan Kitchen's new game - Gold Rush

[+Cafeman]

10 minutes ago, KaeruYojimbo said:

As impressive as Convoy was initially, it's far too short for a one-path-to-the-end type of game. Once you've achieved a prefect game there's nothing left to see and nothing left to do

 

Honestly, isn't that true of Pitfall and Pitfall 2 and really any 2600 adventure game as well?   Yet we replay those now and then. 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 hour ago, Supergun said:

But the end result is nobody (including himself!) ever being able to experience the demo properly; running on actual hardware.

What makes you so sure that this will be the case forever?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

26 minutes ago, Cafeman said:

Honestly, isn't that true of Pitfall and Pitfall 2 and really any 2600 adventure game as well?   Yet we replay those now and then. 

Maybe, but not as frequent as if there would be some variations, extra challenges, random elements or new things to explore.

[orange808]

There's a lot of unfinished stuff out there on various hard drives that you may never experience.

[Pat Brady]

10 hours ago, Andrew Davie said:

I don't particularly like the way the OGs "dumped" on homebrew

I watched a couple of interviews of these guys. They formed a business together, but it's still 3 individuals who don't necessarily share identical viewpoints on everything. AFAIK Dan never said anything remotely negative about homebrew.

[alfredtdk]

To this day I don't understand why Casey Gold was postponed and the unexpected Circus Convoy was launched in its place. Not detracting from Circus Convoy qualities,far from it, it looks like a great game, but at the time it was a bucket of cold water for those who were waiting for its release that year.

Edited September 9, 2022 by alfredtdk

[+thanatos]

6 minutes ago, alfredtdk said:

To this day I don't understand why Casey Gold was postponed and the unexpected Circus Convoy was launched in its place. Not detracting from CC's qualities, but at the time it was a bucket of cold water for those who were waiting for its release that year.

 

My guess would be it was so they could test the new tech that never existed on Atari - QR codes for online scores for one, with a similar, yet not 'sequel' game to hammer out all the issues first.

 

[Supergun]

11 minutes ago, alfredtdk said:

To this day I don't understand why Casey Gold was postponed and the unexpected Circus Convoy was launched in its place. Not detracting from Circus Convoy qualities,far from it, it looks like a great game, but at the time it was a bucket of cold water for those who were waiting for its release that year.

 

It’s possible that the entire concept of any kind of a sequel or even just another game involving the Keystone character was found to be a “grey area” and was quietly abandoned.

 

I don’t think that anyone can just make a Pitfall Harry game so why would any other character be any exception?

[TPR]

On 9/8/2022 at 3:14 AM, Andrew Davie said:

I don't particularly like the way the OGs "dumped" on homebrew

I 100% agree.  My level of excitement for those games dropped dramatically when I saw those unnecessary comments attempting to disassociate themselves from the homebrew community.  If anything, they should be thanking the homebrew community for keeping the console alive that allowed them to have an audience for their game.  And when I received my copy of Circus Convoy, the return address on the package was that of a home in California.  Seems like a "home"brew production to me! 

[orange808]

It''s probably more satisfying to simply enjoy the experience, art, and creativity of game software on its own terms, when possible.

 

My only issue is that the game shipped with a bug and Stella could have "saved the day". I hope Audacity will take a few minutes to try Stella and Gopher2600 while debugging their next one. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by orange808

[ColecoGamer]

I really hope Casey’s Gold/Gold Rush sees a release. I’ve been wanting the game ever since it was announced.

 

Circus Convoy is a great game in its own right, but I do agree that releasing Casey’s Gold would have made me happier.

 

Oh well… only time will tell.

Edited September 12, 2022 by ColecoGamer

[Supergun]

Someone had made a comment awhile back (I think it was in another thread) were they stated that perhaps the team consider(ed) Circus Convoy’s sales disappointing. (possibly even a failure)

 

Mind you, a success by almost any other measure, but nevertheless, not by their own. And this might have taken the wind out of their sales.

 

Imagine if you will, the possibility that they over-estimated todays marketplace, and they currently have boxes stacked from floor to ceiling in their garages packed with hundreds, if not thousands of unsold Circus Convoy games. Similar to Atari’s unsold inventories back in the day.

 

So it could be that we are in a holding pattern of sorts. And that unless or until they sell them all, or at least hit a certain minimum mark or quota, they simply cannot justify (financially or otherwise) continuing in this “silly” (to them) side venture.

 

Of course, this is all just speculation. But without even the slightest communications or occasional updates, we are pretty much left to do so here.

[+Andrew Davie]

6 minutes ago, Supergun said:

And this might have taken the wind out of their sales.

Intentional or not... a top-shelf pun!

[+KaeruYojimbo]

2 hours ago, Supergun said:

Someone had made a comment awhile back (I think it was in another thread) were they stated that perhaps the team consider(ed) Circus Convoy’s sales disappointing. (possibly even a failure)

You're possibly thinking of this thread:

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326797-anyone-know-whats-up-with-audacity-games/

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

It could be anything. Everybody is just speculating.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Thomas Jentzsch

[+KaeruYojimbo]

20 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

It could be anything. Everybody is just speculating.

Yes. Like with any hobbyist developed game (have to be careful not to call it homebrew in case they're reading this) it could be as simple as not having free time to work on it.

[Crazy Climber]

19 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

It could be anything. Everybody is just speculating.

This pretty much sums it up

 

As for the "negative" comment they made about Homebrew games, I would blame it on them just being a little out of touch as to how far homebrews have evolved...

 

We're obsessed with this stuff and never left the scene. Atari was a job for them and they moved on. To expect them to just pop back into the scene and know everything about it would be a pretty ridiculous demand. They're not going to instantly be just like us. When I first joined here the only homebrews I knew of were pretty poor quality (Non AA releases)

 

When you hear the term homebrew it's very easy for someone out of touch with the scene to picture a guy selling ROM hacks out of beat up recycled carts from his parents basement. There is nothing wrong with that but when you have dropped a LOT of cash on custom boards/cases/boxes and have original well noted Atari programmers on your team you probably want to make sure you don't get lumped in that category. You want people to know it's the real deal!

 

Yes, the atari scene now has publishers that release professional releases just as quality or even better quality than Audacity games release, yes, we also have programmers on par with the OG's talent, or even surpassing their skills...but do THEY know that? Probably not...it's not their fault, we've reached the point of Atari fandom where a lot of us know MORE about it than the people that actually helped create it!!

 

If we give them a chance to stick around and see that the "homebrew" scene has really evolved I think it would bring out the best in everyone...I'm sure if they knew how insulting that comment was to many homebrew makers they wouldn't have said it. I've seen nothing in their character to imply they are cruel or malicious people. They seem to really love Atari and are having a lot of fun reliving it and that makes me personally very happy. It was just a simple misunderstanding in my opinion and even though I'm not a programmer or publisher, I'm willing to let it go and support them. Circus Convoy was a fantastic game! I want to see more!

[hizzy]

It did feel like they were out of touch with Atari in the last 20 + years, and that was a turn off for me. The project didn't feel like it was trying to appeal to the community, but more like an attempt to cash in on the retro game craze.

[Crazy Climber]

29 minutes ago, hizzy said:

It did feel like they were out of touch with Atari in the last 20 + years, and that was a turn off for me. The project didn't feel like it was trying to appeal to the community, but more like an attempt to cash in on the retro game craze.

I seriously doubt they profited much, if anything, from Circus Convoy. Making a run of custom boards, PCB's, etc not to mention just the amount of TIME it took to program it... You would probably make more money in less time delivering pizza's.

 

It was likely an ego driven project and is there really anything wrong with that? I used to make whoppers at the Airport burger king back in the early 90's. If a small group of super fans of Airport Burger King whoppers kept contacting me, year after year, asking me to go back to BK and make more whoppers for them...I'd probably do it eventually, when I reached a point in my life that I had time to indulge in something like that, and it wouldn't be for the hourly wage I'd receive...although I would obviously want to make "something" for doing it.

 

 

[Greg2600]

Unfortunately I missed Dan the last time he was at the Digital Press NAVA, they did have KK2 running.  FWIW, he has moved to Florida, so I probably won't be seeing much of him.  As for Circus Convoy, it may have done very well for any of the typical homebrew designers we've come to support.  However, without speaking for Dan, Garry, or Dave, financially it simply may not have been worth their investment.

[TPR]

23 hours ago, Crazy Climber said:

As for the "negative" comment they made about Homebrew games, I would blame it on them just being a little out of touch as to how far homebrews have evolved...

Are they, though?  I mean, I know for a fact they've been around all the gaming cons where plenty of modern homebrews have been displayed. You'd have to be pretty blind not to see it. I would have to imagine that they've been to PRGE and seen @Albert AtariAge booth at some point right? 

[Crazy Climber]

11 minutes ago, TPR said:

Are they, though?  I mean, I know for a fact they've been around all the gaming cons where plenty of modern homebrews have been displayed. You'd have to be pretty blind not to see it. I would have to imagine that they've been to PRGE and seen @Albert AtariAge booth at some point right? 

It's possible I guess, but I still think people are comparing THEM to US which is just unrealistic

 

There is a BIG difference between just "seeing" something and being "genuinely interested" or even "obsessed" with it.

 

WE are SUPER FANS of Atari. We buy, play, collect, drool, etc over any new developments and products made. It's just speculative on my part but I'm pretty sure they don't feel the same (which is totally fine) I think it was a job for them, one they have fond memories of and received a lot of praise for, and one they have chose to relive a little now that they have time (and a fanbase requesting them) to do so.

 

I still think (hope!) they have a completely different idea of what a "homebrew" is and maybe...hopefully...spending more times at shows promoting their game has shown them just what a homebrew is in today's times...

 

To expect them to know or care as much as we do about this scene though is again, unrealistic...

[+splendidnut]

It seems to all be marketing tactics:  "professional games" instead of "homebrew games".  I don't really see any thing that actually differentiates between the two:  functionally the same, both can be released as products, both are games.  There are other things that are essentially the same between the two and don't help differentiate: Quality can vary in both categories, intentions can vary in both categories.

 

But then again, in my experience, the word professional is meaningless... There are a lot of things denoted as professional that are mediocre at best.  There are a lot of 'professional' people who are mediocre at best.

 

I was highly amused at the attempt to distinguish the game from homebrews.  To me, it seemed like a pointless thing to do and distracts from the work itself.  I honestly would like to know 'Why' they felt the need to do that.

 

Audacity made a good quality game.  To me it matches the quality of homebrew games... such as those release by Champ Games... but then again maybe Champ Games are actually professional games?  Who really knows? 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

53 minutes ago, splendidnut said:

I was highly amused at the attempt to distinguish the game from homebrews.

That did come across as rather arrogant on their behalf.  As @TrekMD pointed out, homebrew is what has kept a 45-year-old game console alive well past any reasonable definition of 'obsolescence'.

 

There's nothing wrong with some of the early game programmers wanting to release a new game; in a way, it's like putting the band back together.  But crapping (unintentionally or otherwise) on the community that has made it possible to release that game is in incredibly poor taste.

 

Regarding 'professional' vs. 'homebrew' games: my suspicion is that Audacity hadn't yet learned the lesson that there's no real money to be made in retro.  The days of million-selling (hell, even sales cracking the 10K mark) games for the 2600 are over.  If you sell a few hundred, that's a big success, and may even cover the material costs.  Chances are that the programmers' time was unpaid, but that can at least be considered to be voluntary.  So that begs the question as to what actually constitutes a 'professional' game vs. a 'homebrew' one since this is the reality of both game development and the market for the game.

 

And if they really did order massive quantities of Circus Convoy cartridges, it wouldn't be surprising to see Casey's Gold eventually ship with its label slapped over the CC one and a re-burned EEPROM inside 😜

[+SpiceWare]

2 hours ago, TPR said:

I would have to imagine that they've been to PRGE and seen @Albert AtariAge booth at some point right? 

 

Yes:

 

On 3/13/2021 at 11:55 AM, SpiceWare said:

At the gaming events I've gone to they've always checked out the AtariAge booth.  At PRGE 2017 John was showing David Crane his ports of Scramble and Super Cobra when David started to ask questions about DPC+, which John handed off to me; so they while they may not follow it as closely as we do, they do follow it.