MiSTer FPGA

[Steven Pendleton]

I've been using a PS5 controller for SFC/PS1 on the MiSTer. It's a straight upgrade over those systems' actual controllers in most aspects, aside from maybe the share/options buttons being tiny afterthoughts.

 

Anyone tried the Retro-Bit Saturn wired USB controller? I've heard of many problems with the d-pad breaking, which is disappointing, as it's the controller that I am considering buying for the eventual Saturn core.

[Austin]

On 6/7/2022 at 5:54 AM, Steven Pendleton said:

Anyone tried the Retro-Bit Saturn wired USB controller? I've heard of many problems with the d-pad breaking, which is disappointing, as it's the controller that I am considering buying for the eventual Saturn core.

It's good.

 

If it breaks on you, Retro-Bit will send you a replacement actuator at no cost. Just reach out to them if it happens.

[Steven Pendleton]

4 minutes ago, Austin said:

It's good.

 

If it breaks on you, Retro-Bit will send you a replacement actuator at no cost. Just reach out to them if it happens.

Tasty. Looks like I'm getting one eventually, in that case.

[Austin]

6 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Tasty. Looks like I'm getting one eventually, in that case.

It'll be great for the Saturn core, but I also love using it as a replacement for the Genesis six-button controller in the Genesis core, as well as using it with arcade cores.

[Steven Pendleton]

29 minutes ago, Austin said:

It'll be great for the Saturn core, but I also love using it as a replacement for the Genesis six-button controller in the Genesis core, as well as using it with arcade cores.

Yeah, I've been using the 2.4GHz version on my Mega Drive and Mega Sg. It's got like a 16ms of lag or something like that wirelessly, though, and I have started to recently really like wired controllers again, so I'd rather just use the actual wired one anyway, especially since the 2.4GHz one tends to drain its battery when not in use for some strange reason.

[Austin]

29 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Yeah, I've been using the 2.4GHz version on my Mega Drive and Mega Sg. It's got like a 16ms of lag or something like that wirelessly, though, and I have started to recently really like wired controllers again, so I'd rather just use the actual wired one anyway, especially since the 2.4GHz one tends to drain its battery when not in use for some strange reason.

That battery issue is known with the wireless Retro-Bit Saturn controllers, unfortunately.

 

16ms delay isn't bad though. That's roughly one frame of input lag. Unless you're speedrunning and need to be perfect 100% of the time, you're not going to notice that.

 

I generally go wired myself but lately have been doing a lot of 2.4ghz between my SNES, Mega SG and NES. No real issues personally.

[Reaperman]

10 hours ago, Austin said:

That battery issue is known with the wireless Retro-Bit Saturn controllers, unfortunately.

Their entire 2.4ghz line does it.  Kind of a bummer, thought he generally excellent feel trumps the battery drain and the extra lag for me. I may give the wired saturn more of a solid try, but I always tend to put it down once the wireless one charges.

 

While technically, 8bitdos tend to score better on that MiSTer lag test, there's no good way to measure how many milliseconds those 8bitdo d-pads cost me, so choosing between them is pretty much a 'what mood am I in' thing. And weirdly the analogue pocket's retro-bit compatibility seemed higher than its 8bitdo compatibility at least for a while there.

 

These days we really have the best controller options we've ever had in our hobby.  It's a little nuts how picky I've been able to get over controllers in just the last half-decade. Between all these controllers, and these FPGA options, it's a neat period of gaming to be stuck in. ...That's awful positive of me, I should check my temperature.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Reaperman

[Reaperman]

I had some more time with my chatpad and did a vid on it.  It's still kind of weird using a modern controller with the Atari--I'm not entirely sure it's for me, but for games that only need occasional keypresses, it's great.

 

 

 

[Steven Pendleton]

On 6/10/2022 at 12:37 AM, Austin said:

That battery issue is known with the wireless Retro-Bit Saturn controllers, unfortunately.

 

16ms delay isn't bad though. That's roughly one frame of input lag. Unless you're speedrunning and need to be perfect 100% of the time, you're not going to notice that.

 

I generally go wired myself but lately have been doing a lot of 2.4ghz between my SNES, Mega SG and NES. No real issues personally.

Yeah, I've recently started to immensely dislike wireless controllers because of the PS3 and PS4, as my PS3 controllers no longer hold a charge at all when not in use and my PS4 controller dies in like 3 or 4 hours of use. After using a wired arcade stick on PS4 and never having to deal with the battery that it doesn't have, I realized that I do actually really like wired controllers a lot. I think both PS4 and Switch are weird in that using their respective default controllers wired actually somehow has more lag than wireless (slow USB protocol?), but that's just a random thing that I've seen people mention online in various locations.

 

Now that I think about it, everyone laughed at Microsoft for putting AA batteries in the 360 controller instead of an internal recharge thingy. Looking back at it now, they actually got it right. Ironically, I use the 360 wireless controller's charging cable thing to use it as wired just because I'm too cheap to go buy batteries.

 

I do need to find a way to connect my Mission Stick to the MiSTer for Space Harrier and After Burner II, though. Same with my XE-1AP just to see if it works properly on the MiSTer. XE-1AP doesn't work properly on the Mega Sg, so it will be very interesting to see if it does on MiSTer. There's really not much of a point in using the XE-1AP if you have a Saturn since I think almost everything that you can play with the XE-1AP is also on Saturn and is both better there and works with the Mission Stick, but there are a few exceptions, like Musha Aleste, and I'm honestly just interested to see if it works or not.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Steven Pendleton

[adamchevy]

Yeah, I've recently started to immensely dislike wireless controllers because of the PS3 and PS4, as my PS3 controllers no longer hold a charge at all when not in use and my PS4 controller dies in like 3 or 4 hours of use. After using a wired arcade stick on PS4 and never having to deal with the battery that it doesn't have, I realized that I do actually really like wired controllers a lot. I think both PS4 and Switch are weird in that using their respective default controllers wired actually somehow has more lag than wireless (slow USB protocol?), but that's just a random thing that I've seen people mention online in various locations.  

Now that I think about it, everyone laughed at Microsoft for putting AA batteries in the 360 controller instead of an internal recharge thingy. Looking back at it now, they actually got it right. Ironically, I use the 360 wireless controller's charging cable thing to use it as wired just because I'm too cheap to go buy batteries.

 

I do need to find a way to connect my Mission Stick to the MiSTer for Space Harrier and After Burner II, though. Same with my XE-1AP just to see if it works properly on the MiSTer. XE-1AP doesn't work properly on the Mega Sg, so it will be very interesting to see if it does on MiSTer. There's really not much of a point in using the XE-1AP if you have a Saturn since I think almost everything that you can play with the XE-1AP is also on Saturn and is both better there and works with the Mission Stick, but there are a few exceptions, like Musha Aleste, and I'm honestly just interested to see if it works or not.

 

I’ve also recently started to dislike wireless controllers. I’m tired of going to play and finding that my controllers are out of battery.

 

It also feels strange since they aren’t original to most of the cores on the mister.

 

I’ve decided to mostly use Snac adapters with original controllers when possible. I sold all of my original systems, so it’s the least I can do to feel some nostalgia for them still.

 

I’m curious, has anyone tried using the Mclassic with the Mister?

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, adamchevy said:

I’ve also recently started to dislike wireless controllers. I’m tired of going to play and finding that my controllers are out of battery.

Yeah, that crap is annoying. Better to just use wired and not have to worry about it in most situations, I think. Too bad wired is annoying at close ranges because you end up with the cable all wrapped up around you and under your chair wheels and whatever, but at least one of my arcade sticks has a compartment for the cable so I can fold it up and put the excess cable inside the compartment, which is nice and lets me make the cable be only as long as I want it to be. Wireless is better for close distances than wired, ironically, just because there is no cable that's constantly getting in the way.

[Keatah]

3 hours ago, adamchevy said:

I’ve also recently started to dislike wireless controllers. I’m tired of going to play and finding that my controllers are out of battery.

I started to hate batteries on things when I "converted" my laptop to a desktop years ago. Not worth the $100 replacement cost.

 

Wireless controllers were a novelty in the early days. But not so much now. Just because something can be done with tech doesn't mean it should.

 

3 hours ago, adamchevy said:

It also feels strange since they aren’t original to most of the cores on the mister. I’ve decided to mostly use Snac adapters with original controllers when possible. I sold all of my original systems, so it’s the least I can do to feel some nostalgia for them still.

When I had my MAME renaissance in the late 1990's, I really had no option to use anything but "alien" controls. PC keyboard, joystick, mouse, that sort of thing. And since I hadn't played the late 70's and early 80's arcade games in years, it was like all new all over again. With the nostalgic factor of course. And so I had no trouble with unconventional control schemes for what would normally be a straightforward simple arcade game. Think Tempest and DOTRON with a mouse.

 

Now the odyssey continues with X-Arcade and TankSticks and real Spinners. Instead of a shelf of consoles I have a box of controllers for when I'm in the mood for authenticity and wanting the utmost advantage.

 

Arcade gaming at home is really superior. You're not forced to stand in an upright position without moving. You're not surrounded by disease and germs and general noise. I was gonna say riffraff too, but there's much less of that in retrocades today than back then.

 

With MAME or MiSTer you have so much control (no pun intended) over your displays, controllers, speakers, posture, and other creature comforts - like a servant to make you snacks and stuff too.

[adamchevy]

When I had my MAME renaissance in the late 1990's, I really had no option to use anything but "alien" controls. PC keyboard, joystick, mouse, that sort of thing. And since I hadn't played the late 70's and early 80's arcade games in years, it was like all new all over again. With the nostalgic factor of course. And so I had no trouble with unconventional control schemes for what would normally be a straightforward simple arcade game. Think Tempest and DOTRON with a mouse.  

Now the odyssey continues with X-Arcade and TankSticks and real Spinners. Instead of a shelf of consoles I have a box of controllers for when I'm in the mood for authenticity and wanting the utmost advantage.

 

Arcade gaming at home is really superior. You're not forced to stand in an upright position without moving. You're not surrounded by disease and germs and general noise. I was gonna say riffraff too, but there's much less of that in retrocades today than back then.

 

With MAME or MiSTer you have so much control (no pun intended) over your displays, controllers, speakers, posture, and other creature comforts - like a servant to make you snacks and stuff too.

 

My other real issue with Wireless controllers is Lag. I’ve been looking recently at the Mister controller latency page:

 

https://rpubs.com/misteraddons/inputlatency

 

I was surprised to see how many of the controllers I own skewed mostly towards having more latency than I thought.

 

I’ve been doing a bit of research on latency today. Apparently most humans cant detect less than 16ms of latency. I must be one of the rare ones because I swear anything more than 6ms of latency seems noticeable to me.

 

I’m not sure if it’s because I grew up playing on CRTs with all wired controllers, but it really bothers me.

 

This is another reason why I love the Mister.

 

I never got into using mame, not more than a few times out of curiosity. It was really the No quarter podcast that got me interested in mame.

[Steven Pendleton]

The problem isn't really that your controller has 16ms of lag, it's that your controller has 16ms of lag plus your display having whatever lag it has + other things like emulation lag or lag caused by your scaler or whatever. Each individual thing that adds lag isn't so bad, but once you add them all together it might be bad. I had a display in 2012 or so that had a ridiculous amount of lag to the point where Sonic 1 and 2 on PS3 were unplayable. I thought those were terribly emulated versions of those games, but then I tried those again like last year or whenever on my PC monitor and I found them to be perfectly fine.

[youxia]

2 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Each individual thing that adds lag isn't so bad, but once you add them all together it might be bad.

That's why I'm pretty sure there are people out there who bought MiSTer because of the whole no lag hype, but in fact have more of it due to bad configuration/additional laggy hardware than somebody who has a tight emulation rig.

 

Me, I don't really know even though I mulled this issue over countless times. Sometimes I think I can totally "feel" the lag, especially now after using MiSTer and OG HW for nearly exclusively for ~2 years, but sometimes I'm still unsure how much of it is "in the mind". The differences can be minuscule after all and people very suggestible. It sure would be very illuminating if there was a blind test conducted one day somewhere...

[Steven Pendleton]

7 minutes ago, youxia said:

That's why I'm pretty sure there are people out there who bought MiSTer because of the whole no lag hype, but in fact have more of it due to bad configuration/additional laggy hardware than somebody who has a tight emulation rig.

Even in the MiSTer's configuration, there are a few settings that affect lag by a frame or two. I've never actually been able to figure out how to make MAME not have a very uncomfortable amount of lag, unfortunately, so I gave up trying and now I just go to the arcade when I want to play arcade games. It's also a great excuse to buy arcade PCBs, which I plan to start doing shortly, and hopefully a New Astro City to put them in instead of just flipping my CRT on its side.

8 minutes ago, youxia said:

Me, I don't really know even though I mulled this issue over countless times. Sometimes I think I can totally "feel" the lag, especially now after using MiSTer and OG HW for nearly exclusively for ~2 years, but sometimes I'm still unsure how much of it is "in the mind". The differences can be minuscule after all and people very suggestible. It sure would be very illuminating if there was a blind test conducted one day somewhere...

Perception of lag is often a function of familiarity. This is why I always use the Mega Drive Mini as my input lag punching bag; after 28+ years of playing that system, playing on the Mini is extremely uncomfortable because I know those games are supposed to be far more responsive than they are on that Mini. Move over to the PC Engine mini and I can barely tell the difference between the mini and my real SuperGrafx.

[Reaperman]

MiSTers have become rare and expensive items, it seems.

MiSTerAddons kits are up $100 since I bought mine, and to add to it, from what I hear they aren't in stock very often, or for very long.

 

So naturally, I decide this is the ideal time to stuff a MiSTerCade into my MVS cab. Because why make life easy?

To that end, I spent way too much (still less than new) on a used ebay MiSTer that came with a couple neat (and also currently unavailable ? ) upgrades that I'll probably swap over to my current MiSTer.

 

A 'd0pefish' splitter/switch since word has it the on-cord ones drop voltage quite a lot (I haven't had issues)

A 'Timville' 3-in-1 GEN/SNES/NES daemonbite adapter--should be faster than my retrobit set, though questionably noticable

Those both seem pretty cool.

 

And yes, I'm fully aware that I'm still $300+ and worse, at least one 'alert me' email away from getting this thing into the cab--but I figure the days of DE-10's, and JAMMA adapters being in stock at the same time are long gone.

 

I'm also on the 'alert me' lists for one of those MT32-pi Lite units, because in 2022, there's a waiting list for everything.

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Reaperman

[Reaperman]

In the mail today I got one of those cheapo China SNAC sets. I'm still waiting on a TG16 adapter I ordered separately because the set comes with PCE.

 

It works about like everything else on MiSTer--looks like total 'jank' but just works absolutely flawlessly out of the box ?

 

 

I tried it on the 32x and MegaCD cores.

Only real catch was that 32x defaulted to it being player two until I swapped controllers in menu (megacd defaulted to p1).

 

Had I simply looked up at my last post I'd've remembered I have that Timville Daemonbite adapter to compare it against but I bet I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Youtube seems to indicate that 1000hz usb, BlisSTer, and SNAC are all kind of a wash for latency, and with little doubt any of them probably kicks the butt of my real 32xCD/framemeister setup. (maybe even on a CRT from some vids I've seen...)

Edited July 31, 2022 by Reaperman

[NE146]

15 hours ago, Reaperman said:

In the mail today I got one of those cheapo China SNAC sets. I'm still waiting on a TG16 adapter I ordered separately because the set comes with PCE.

 

It works about like everything else on MiSTer--looks like total 'jank' but just works absolutely flawlessly out of the box ?

 

 

I tried it on the 32x and MegaCD cores.

Only real catch was that 32x defaulted to it being player two until I swapped controllers in menu (megacd defaulted to p1).

 

Had I simply looked up at my last post I'd've remembered I have that Timville Daemonbite adapter to compare it against but I bet I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Youtube seems to indicate that 1000hz usb, BlisSTer, and SNAC are all kind of a wash for latency, and with little doubt any of them probably kicks the butt of my real 32xCD/framemeister setup. (maybe even on a CRT from some vids I've seen...)

Got a link to where you got that?

[Reaperman]

10 minutes ago, NE146 said:

Got a link to where you got that?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175345617446

(put a watch on it for a few hours and they'll send you an offer a couple dollars lower too $46.08 vs 48.50)

 

Aliexpress lost my first attempt to buy a set of these.

 

Since I just picked up a second MiSTer, it wouldn't be too much more hassle to grab a second GB Link SNAC-cable and play 'The worlds most expensive game of Mario Kart Advance.' I'm pretty sure I saw a new-ish core in there that just does it all on one MiSTer, but what fun is that?

Edited July 31, 2022 by Reaperman

[+remowilliams]

It's amusing that there's a bundle available that cheaply.  It's still overkill for any general purpose really, but at least it's not a completely extravagant waste of money like the BlisSTer stuff.

[Steven Pendleton]

I just use my mini console controllers; Mega Drive Mini controller, Astro City Mini controller and arcade stick, and PC Engine mini controller work just fine since they are all USB controllers, so no need to mess around with converters. PS1 gets the PS5 controller since it's basically the same thing but way better.

[Reaperman]

So I had my first 'fail' with the SNAC--the 7800 is the only core from the 'systems with atari sticks' list that supports SNAC that I can see, but I couldn't get paddles working.  (2600 is officially removed, but doesn't seem to support it anyway, and 800/c64 don't have the settings) 

 

There is a paddle switch on the SNAC adapter (which I tried both ways in case label was wrong) and an 'analog' switch in the core (which I tried both ways too).

 

I plugged in a brand new hyperkin ranger (in stick mode, and later paddle mode) to make sure I was using the correct joyport, removing the 'swap joysticks' variable, and the variable that my commodore-branded paddles weren't expected. Stick mode wasn't 100% stellar either. On ballblazer, a one button game, it did fine, but on choplifter 'up' also fired and the fire button did seemingly nothing (or maybe it rotates the chopper and I didn't do it right). The Choplifter problem could be expected, with 2600 controller on 7800, I don't recall. Kaboom and Medieval mayhem on 2600 were my paddle-test games.

 

I kind of also want a psx snac adapter, and I've seen them on aliexpress.  I have a ps1-to-usb adapter that I bought for this fishing controller I have, but it's not doing anything with it, and SNAC might just fix problems like that. I bet if I tried my assortment of mini-wheel racing controllers they probably wouldn't work without snac either.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Reaperman

[+remowilliams]

2 hours ago, Reaperman said:

There is a paddle switch on the SNAC adapter (which I tried both ways in case label was wrong) and an 'analog' switch in the core (which I tried both ways too).

 

7800 core has no paddle support via SNAC as far as I'm aware.

[adamchevy]

I just use my mini console controllers; Mega Drive Mini controller, Astro City Mini controller and arcade stick, and PC Engine mini controller work just fine since they are all USB controllers, so no need to mess around with converters. PS1 gets the PS5 controller since it's basically the same thing but way better.

I went from using the PS5 controller with the PS1 core to using a PS1 Snac adapter with PSOne dual shock controllers. The difference is very noticeable when playing games like Einhander. It felt even better than playing on the original system.