Popeye 7800

[MrZarniwoop]

8 minutes ago, envytomdead2 said:

Ultimately your best bet for that is a scaler like the RetroTink 2x or 5x and a console modification. Crossbow here on the forums modded mine. He did awesome work. I started by getting the scaler. I hooked my 7800 up through the antenna of an old vcr and used the av out to the RetroTink 2x. Then a little bit later I had my console modded. 

Another general option is the 7800 GameDrive with its Sega Genesis 2 AV out port that works with the RAD2X for HDMI output. But, it's for playing ROM binaries and the full Popeye ROM has not been released, only a demo.

[Flyindrew]

18 hours ago, insertclevernamehere said:

Is there a way of hooking up a 7800 to a hdtv with a decent picture?  I have my 2600 hooked up to a crt tv because the picture is garbage on an hdtv.  I was hoping the 2600+ would be a viable 7800 alternative that would reduce my need for a crt.   Getting an actual 7800 just seems to increase my reliance on crt's instead but hopefully I'm wrong about that. 

All you need is an RF adapter plug and cable. Its super easy to find and cheap. You just plug one end in the back of the 7800, screw the adapter on the other end plug it into the TV or cable in port on the back of your TV. Of course you can also wait for the new 2600 + to be released, which supports 7800 carts and has HDMI output.

[insertclevernamehere]

5 hours ago, Flyindrew said:

All you need is an RF adapter plug and cable. Its super easy to find and cheap. You just plug one end in the back of the 7800, screw the adapter on the other end plug it into the TV or cable in port on the back of your TV. Of course you can also wait for the new 2600 + to be released, which supports 7800 carts and has HDMI output.

Oh deary me no.  That's the method I used to hook my 2600 to an hdtv and it was horrible.  My shots when playing Millipede were completely invisible for example.  I use the same method on a crt and it's great but unless hooking up a 7800 to an hdtv that way gets better results than doing the same with a 2600, it's a hard pass.

[Flyindrew]

16 hours ago, insertclevernamehere said:

Oh deary me no.  That's the method I used to hook my 2600 to an hdtv and it was horrible.  My shots when playing Millipede were completely invisible for example.  I use the same method on a crt and it's great but unless hooking up a 7800 to an hdtv that way gets better results than doing the same with a 2600, it's a hard pass.

Really? I have a brand new HDTV and use this method on multiple old systems (2600,7800,XE,SNES) and have crystal clear picture and sound. I had the same experience your describing when I hooked up original RF plugs to HDTV , but once I bought the specialized adapter and cable (which was dirt cheap), everything plays and sounds perfectly like a dream.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, Flyindrew said:

Really? I have a brand new HDTV and use this method on multiple old systems (2600,7800,XE,SNES) and have crystal clear picture and sound. I had the same experience your describing when I hooked up original RF plugs to HDTV , but once I bought the specialized adapter and cable (which was dirt cheap), everything plays and sounds perfectly like a dream.

The TVs themselves are another factor to consider here. The Sony Bravia I use in my game room does NOT like RF signals. It will work with them and show them. But the output from RF will constantly come in and out of focus. It is an effect similar to what you see on cameras with auto focus enabled during video shoots. Also, due to outside interference, Brighter colors will occasionally do this odd thing where it looks good and then for a sec the whites will show a ghostly streak off to the right side (usually), along with a slight hum from the audio. It does this in cycles so it seems to be something externally that interferes with the signal. One thing that is also noticed and I've not had any luck in being able to correct for it, is how much darker overall the RF output looks on my modern TV vs a CRT where it does look as I remembered from a kid. 

 

Now my Sony is NOT new and dates from about 2015. So it is able to auto tune and lock into the signals without issue. It is just that the signal overall just isn't handled well on my TV. 

 

I should also mention that I use a short 3ft coax RCA cable with thick shielding on it and a coax to RCA adapter. So the cable isn't to blame as I've tried other cables and got even worse results. 

 

So again, the way a modern TV handles the RF from these older consoles will also vary from one brand and model of TV to another. It was so annoying to me and I wasn't willing to just buy another TV, that it was the reason I began to AV upgrade all of my classic consoles that I wanted to play on a frequent basis.

 

Another option of course is to use an old VCR to act as a demodulator to take the RF and break it back out to provide composite output form the VCR to your TV. I've heard that works pretty well although I've honestly not tried it myself as I no longer own a VCR and hadn't a need to get one.

 

 

[+Cafeman]

3 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Another option of course is to use an old VCR to act as a demodulator to take the RF and break it back out to provide composite output form the VCR to your TV. I've heard that works pretty well although I've honestly not tried it myself as I no longer own a VCR and hadn't a need to get one

this method works great for me connected to my Panasonic plasma. When I try to hook up the RF directly to the TV, it usually doesn’t even register it.

[+Dark Descent]

Is the demo rom the only way to play this unless you have a cartridge?

 

I missed the last chance sale and I've been playing it a lot on the game drive.  

[+groundtrooper]

You are correct. At this point the full rom has not been released publicly. 

[+Dark Descent]

22 hours ago, groundtrooper said:

You are correct. At this point the full rom has not been released publicly. 

Bummer. 

[Madwindoman]

Finally broke 100k. This is such a great game. 10 outa 10 for me

[ChazB]

Saw this game, would love to get it. Can't find the game at the AtariAge store.

[Trebor]

3 hours ago, ChazB said:

Saw this game, would love to get it. Can't find the game at the AtariAge store.

It has not been available for months at the AtariAge store.  See below thread for details:

Quote

These games will be removed from the AtariAge Store once this sale has completed.

Atari 7800:

Armor Attack II
Astro Blaster
Astro Fighter
b*nQ
Baby Pac-Man
Beef Drop VE
Beef Drop (HOKEY Audio Included)
Crazy Otto
Froggie
Froggie (HOKEY Audio Included)
Jr. Pac-Man
K.C. Munchkin
Keystone Koppers
Moon Cresta
Pac-Man Collection 40th Anniversary Edition
Pac-Man Collection
Pac-Man Collection (HOKEY Audio Included)
Popeye
Rip-Off
Scramble
Space Invaders
Super Pac-Man
UniWarS

 

Again, this sale runs through Sunday, July 23rd!

 

[JagChris]

On 7/29/2023 at 4:25 AM, darryl1970 said:

You can try both. The exclamation mark should be there.

The exclamation mark should be default. It can be removed with a special code, but the game is more accurate when the exclamation mark is present.

 

I edited my ROM image header to trip the 7800 GD built-in High Score Cartridge detector, and it appeared to default to not having the exclamation mark. I just wanted to make sure that everybody has the exclamation mark by default.

It sounds as if that is the case.

 

Thanks!

 

--Darryl

Are we just verifying everything is good with the latest run?

[+darryl1970]

11 hours ago, JagChris said:

Are we just verifying everything is good with the latest run?

 

I wanted the game to default to the exclamation point. That just indicates that the game is in a mode where Brutus will always throw 4 bottles.

 

In earlier versions, he would stop at 2 if Popeye left his line of sight. It's not as accurate, but I thought it might help eliminate some slowdown. It's not necessary with the new version's display optimizations.

 

That value can be reverted back to the original logic with a code, and that saves to the high score device. The exclamation disappears when reverted.

 

Since it's a value that's saved to the high score devices, I wondered if there would be any cases where the exclamation was not initialized on one's individual device. Maybe it had random data?

 

Fortunately it can be entered in with a code and proper from that point on.

 

-Darryl

 

[Phylax]

Hi everyone. I’m wondering if anyone has had problems getting the game to save high scores on an AtariVox. I have one that is properly detected, but simply refuses to retain scores on Popeye. I’m wondering if it’s defective. 

[+darryl1970]

11 minutes ago, Phylax said:

Hi everyone. I’m wondering if anyone has had problems getting the game to save high scores on an AtariVox. I have one that is properly detected, but simply refuses to retain scores on Popeye. I’m wondering if it’s defective. 

Have you tried to clear the high scores from the game?

 

What version are you running?

[Phylax]

5 minutes ago, darryl1970 said:

Have you tried to clear the high scores from the game?

 

What version are you running?

I just tried that based on your suggestion but it didn’t make a difference. This is version 2.40 with the exclamation mark. 
 

Thing is, it was never saving on powering off. I initially thought it was my 7800, but I tried it with a different 7800 without luck. The same AtariVox does save scores on other games on the same system (at least 2600 games I’ve tried). 

[+darryl1970]

13 hours ago, Phylax said:

I just tried that based on your suggestion but it didn’t make a difference. This is version 2.40 with the exclamation mark. 
 

Thing is, it was never saving on powering off. I initially thought it was my 7800, but I tried it with a different 7800 without luck. The same AtariVox does save scores on other games on the same system (at least 2600 games I’ve tried). 

I do not have any issues with the game saving to my SaveKey, AtariVox, Concerto CM#0, or 7800GD.

If I recall, if Popeye doesn't detect a high score save device at all, it will only show "Top 5 Chart" during the attract sequence. If it detects a high score device, it will show Novice, Arcade and Expert scoreboards.

 

If the attract doesn't loop through those score boards (Top 5 Novice, Arcade & Expert), it doesn't even detect a high score device.

 

Does it have any corruption in the high score tables. I have had corruption in my 7800GD high score file before. This caused issues in multiple games. I was able to delete that and let it rebuild. I don't know if there's a way to reset the AVOX, but I wouldn't want to lose my other game scores if it is still actively working for the 2600 games.

 

I assume your other games still display your saved scores. I guess the question might be if you're able to record NEW scores to your AtariVox in those games. That might rule out corruption on the AVOX itself.

 

 

[Phylax]

4 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

I do not have any issues with the game saving to my SaveKey, AtariVox, Concerto CM#0, or 7800GD.

If I recall, if Popeye doesn't detect a high score save device at all, it will only show "Top 5 Chart" during the attract sequence. If it detects a high score device, it will show Novice, Arcade and Expert scoreboards.

 

If the attract doesn't loop through those score boards (Top 5 Novice, Arcade & Expert), it doesn't even detect a high score device.

 

Does it have any corruption in the high score tables. I have had corruption in my 7800GD high score file before. This caused issues in multiple games. I was able to delete that and let it rebuild. I don't know if there's a way to reset the AVOX, but I wouldn't want to lose my other game scores if it is still actively working for the 2600 games.

 

I assume your other games still display your saved scores. I guess the question might be if you're able to record NEW scores to your AtariVox in those games. That might rule out corruption on the AVOX itself.

 

 

Thanks for the response. I don’t mind losing my scores in the other games if it gets Popeye saves to work, but I have no idea if there’s some way to reset the device fully. I’ll verify that new scores are being saved in 2600 mode. I actually don’t have any other 7800 games with save scores that I can test, unfortunately. 
 

The interesting thing is that the game does cycle through the Top 5 Novice, Arcade, and Expert scores initially, as if the AtariVox were detected. However, after I play a round and then record a Top Score, it no longer cycles through the categories, showing only the “Top 5 Chart”, as if it no longer is detected even though it remains plugged in. The only other issue I can consider is a problem with my extension cord. 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I can't recall if there is a method to reset the Avox on its own. But I now the 7800 Utility Cart has a feature on it to format the Avox to clear it out. I've never used it myself  but I've seen it referenced.

 

[Phylax]

10 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I can't recall if there is a method to reset the Avox on its own. But I now the 7800 Utility Cart has a feature on it to format the Avox to clear it out. I've never used it myself  but I've seen it referenced.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. 
 

I did a few more things to troubleshoot this. First I confirmed it’s definitely still saving normally in 2600 games (speech synth also working normally). I then took the AtariVox out of its shell to plug it in directly into the 7800 and remove the extension cable as an issue. Even directly plugged in to the 7800 it has the same behavior (not saving high scores in Popeye). I later tried playing a different 7800 game with SaveKey support (Dragon’s cache on my Concerto cartridge) and confirmed that it didn’t save either. So whatever is happening does not seem to be a problem with Popeye, but rather that the AtariVox is working fine in 2600 mode but not in 7800 mode. 
 

Thanks everyone for their suggestions, and thanks Daryl for the amazing port! 

[+darryl1970]

I have one more suggestion.

 

This may not apply to real hardware. I had to do this with the 7800GD. I had to play an original game, such as Ms Pac-Man, in order to initialize that unit's high score file.

 

I cannot remember if AtariVox works for original carts that were built for a HSC, but I figure it might be worth a shot to try an original Ms Pac or Dig Dug cart.

 

I am swinging in the dark, so I don't have high hopes. Worth trying though...

 

--Darryl

 

And also thanks for the kind words. I am glad you enjoy it!

[+darryl1970]

Any luck with initializing the HS with a stock game?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, darryl1970 said:

Any luck with initializing the HS with a stock game?

I have not tested it but I have the original release from PRGE 2022 and I believe you have updated it since then? I know that version has the original scoring bug on hitting the bottles in stage 2 that you corrected later on.

 

[+darryl1970]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I have not tested it but I have the original release from PRGE 2022 and I believe you have updated it since then? I know that version has the original scoring bug on hitting the bottles in stage 2 that you corrected later on.

 

It doesn't appear to be an issue with the game. @Phylax stated none of the Atari Basic games save high scores. However, his 2600 games save high scores.

 

When I got one of my 7800GDs, I was having a similar problem. James informed me that the GD's high score cart needed formatted, so to speak. I needed to run a first-run Atari 7800 game (Ms Pac-Man, Dig Dug, etc.) in order to "format" the built-in high score functionality. From that point on, my 7800GD saved high scores on the 7800 BASIC games. I guess the stock games have an extra initialization for empty high score carts.

 

I don't know if the AVox and Savekey work the same. I suggested above as a shot to try.