Pink Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Intellivision's patents have been rejected. https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair Enter the application number 15/931,353 Then click search, then click the image file wrapper. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Pink said: Intellivision's patents have been rejected. https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair Enter the application number 15/931,353 Then click search, then click the image file wrapper. What in the world???? I thought the patent was all passed, I looked at it before. Would intellivision Entertainment been able to release the console WITHOUT having a US patent approved? Edited March 25, 2022 by Rev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 03-14-2022 Electronic Review 03-14-2022 Email Notification 03-14-2022 Mail Non-Final Rejection 03-09-2022 Non-Final Rejection 02-11-2022 Email Notification 02-11-2022 Change in Power of Attorney (May Include Associate POA) 02-08-2022 Date Forwarded to Examiner 02-07-2022 Response to Election / Restriction Filed 02-07-2022 Request for Extension of Time - Granted 08-09-2021 Electronic Review 08-09-2021 Email Notification 08-09-2021 Mail Restriction Requirement 08-03-2021 Restriction/Election Requirement 03-14-2021 Case Docketed to Examiner in GAU 02-12-2021 Email Notification 02-11-2021 Application ready for PDX access by participating foreign offices 02-11-2021 PG-Pub Issue Notification 11-03-2020 Electronic Review 11-03-2020 Email Notification 11-03-2020 PG-Pub Request 10-30-2020 Rescind Nonpublication Request for Pre Grant Publication 05-13-2020 PGPubs nonPub Request 05-27-2020 Email Notification 05-26-2020 Application Dispatched from OIPE 05-27-2020 Filing Receipt - Corrected 05-21-2020 Electronic Review 05-21-2020 Email Notification 05-21-2020 Email Notification 05-21-2020 Mail Pre-Exam Notice 05-20-2020 Sent to Classification Contractor 05-20-2020 FITF set to YES - revise initial setting 05-13-2020 Patent Term Adjustment - Ready for Examination 05-21-2020 Application Is Now Complete 05-21-2020 Application Is Now Complete 05-21-2020 Filing Receipt 05-13-2020 Entity Status Set To Undiscounted (Initial Default Setting or Status Change) 05-13-2020 Initial Exam Team nn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevtris Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 16 minutes ago, Rev said: What in the world???? I thought the patent was all passed, I looked at it before. Would intellivision Entertainment been able to release the console WITHOUT having a US patent approved? sure, you can release things without patents. People do it all the time. Now, you cannot claim to have a patent if it isn't approved. All a patent does is gives you the right to sue someone. It literally has no other purpose or use. This is why patents are pretty useless for everyone that isn't a very large corporation. If they want to use your patented stuff, they will do it and your only recourse is to sue. Because they have a lot more higher priced lawyers, they will win and drain your bank account down and put you out of business. then they'll keep on keepin' on using that technology or process with impunity. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SegaSnatcher Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 minute ago, kevtris said: sure, you can release things without patents. People do it all the time. Now, you cannot claim to have a patent if it isn't approved. All a patent does is gives you the right to sue someone. It literally has no other purpose or use. This is why patents are pretty useless for everyone that isn't a very large corporation. If they want to use your patented stuff, they will do it and your only recourse is to sue. Because they have a lot more higher priced lawyers, they will win and drain your bank account down and put you out of business. then they'll keep on keepin' on using that technology or process with impunity. I remember another guy who was big on patents. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSRSteve Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 10 minutes ago, Rev said: Would intellivision Entertainment been able to release the console WITHOUT having a US patent approved? A patent is not REQUIRED to release a product. It mostly protects you from copycats. And that appears to be a "non-final" rejection. Some other comments that I can make about other things in this thread (I am limited in my ability to respond) Using the potential Trademark on the game boxes and on clothing, is sufficient use to register the trademarks in those categories. The T-shirts and hats, etc that they sell can be used to register the trademarks for clothing. I am not sure of the categories the game boxes would cover. The goal of the "karma engine" philosophy is to allow children to compete with teens and adults on more even footing. The original plan was for it to be optional, but also that a login to the controller could allow the game to remember abilities level from previous games. Anyone who thinks Amico could be released with X-Box controllers doesn't understand the goal of the console. X-Box controllers are not intuitive to people who are now grandparents (unless they have kept up with gaming), or to people that don't game regularly. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Thanks for the clarification on patents, which I know next to nothing. It just seems like other tech companies could take your ideas without it. Therefore not wise to do so without, unless you dont care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 7 minutes ago, BSRSteve said: A patent is not REQUIRED to release a product. It mostly protects you from copycats. And that appears to be a "non-final" rejection. Some other comments that I can make about other things in this thread (I am limited in my ability to respond) Using the potential Trademark on the game boxes and on clothing, is sufficient use to register the trademarks in those categories. The T-shirts and hats, etc that they sell can be used to register the trademarks for clothing. I am not sure of the categories the game boxes would cover. The goal of the "karma engine" philosophy is to allow children to compete with teens and adults on more even footing. The original plan was for it to be optional, but also that a login to the controller could allow the game to remember abilities level from previous games. Anyone who thinks Amico could be released with X-Box controllers doesn't understand the goal of the console. X-Box controllers are not intuitive to people who are now grandparents (unless they have kept up with gaming), or to people that don't game regularly. If the karma is optional, that would be great!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SegaSnatcher Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BSRSteve said: The goal of the "karma engine" philosophy is to allow children to compete with teens and adults on more even footing. The original plan was for it to be optional, but also that a login to the controller could allow the game to remember abilities level from previous games. Anyone who thinks Amico could be released with X-Box controllers doesn't understand the goal of the console. X-Box controllers are not intuitive to people who are now grandparents (unless they have kept up with gaming), or to people that don't game regularly. 1. Yeah, I'm not totally against the idea of game balancing between two players with different skill levels. It really comes down to how its implemented. 2. I agree that handing an Xbox controller to Grandma will result in confusion, but I still feel the lack of face buttons on the Amico controller will have a negative effect on some gaming experiences. Even two face buttons would have been nice for simple jump/shoot mechanics. Edited March 26, 2022 by SegaSnatcher 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) Yes, as others have said you don't need patents to release anything. 18 minutes ago, kevtris said: Now, you cannot claim to have a patent if it isn't approved. Looking through the archived versions of their StartEngine and Fundable campaigns, it does say this. It's definitely confusing & potentially misleading the way they phrased it. Whether they intentionally made it misleading or not, I have no idea, but the StartEngine campaign had to be manually reviewed and discussed to certify to StartEngine that all the details and info they published were accurate. They did state in their SEC filing though that the patents were pending and actually are listed under their risk factors section. Patents and IP: Omnibus patent around controller disc and Karma Gaming Engine - a game balancing technology. We have many content licensing deals, and the list is growing every month. Intellivision | StartEngine (archive.org) Patents and IP: Omnibus patent around controller disc; Karma Gaming Engine - game balancing technology. We have many content licensing deals, and the list is growing every month including Hot Wheels, Major League Baseball, Sesame Street, + more. Intellivision | Fundable - Crowdfunding for Small Businesses (archive.org) They had 20 patents total. Patents #19 and #20 Intellivision withdrew themselves. Update: Just 1 patent with 20 claims Edited March 26, 2022 by Pink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevtris Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rev said: Thanks for the clarification on patents, which I know next to nothing. It just seems like other tech companies could take your ideas without it. Therefore not wise to do so without, unless you dont care! that's true, but you can also do other things like hardware/software lockouts and such to make it more difficult. Also, constantly improving/coming out with new stuff means everyone else is playing catch-up, so you're onto the next thing before it matters too much. I hold a patent, and I can say it was a long, expensive process to get it that frankly wasn't worth it. Since Intellivision seems to be pretty much out of money, they would be kind of foolish at this point to waste more money on trying to get it approved until they actually start making some. Maybe it'd be better as a "year 2" type of thing. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevtris Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pink said: Yes, as others have said you don't need patents to release anything. Looking through the archived versions of their StartEngine and Fundable campaigns, it does say this They had 20 patents total. Patents #19 and #20 Intellivision withdrew themselves. They did state in their SEC filing though that the patents were pending and actually are listed under their risk factors section. Actually it's just 1 patent, with 20 claims in the patent. Each claim is basically a separate aspect of the thing you are wishing to protect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) I stand corrected, thank you Edited March 26, 2022 by Pink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 6 minutes ago, Rev said: Thanks for the clarification on patents, which I know next to nothing. It just seems like other tech companies could take your ideas without it. Therefore not wise to do so without, unless you dont care! If there are things there that are patentable than they would be protected from the original filing date. Once approved, a company that infringes the patent before that approval could still be sued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoJoe Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, MrBeefy said: I think we will know more after NDAs are up. At that point will we care or be discussing the next retro brand bought by someone trying to hook gamers with nostalgia bait? Last time someone told us they would give us the dirt after their NDA was up it turned out to be a nothing burger Edited March 26, 2022 by ColecoJoe 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 2 hours ago, MrBeefy said: They aren't the Amico though. They are trinkets from Intellivision. Not sure how much that matters. If those worked I'd think they'd have it nailed down now. But I would have thought that of their FCC certs too. Almost as if it were a ruse, good enough to fool the consumer, but not the regulator. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 hour ago, BSRSteve said: Anyone who thinks Amico could be released with X-Box controllers doesn't understand the goal of the console. X-Box controllers are not intuitive to people who are now grandparents (unless they have kept up with gaming), or to people that don't game regularly. I think that's giving not enough credit to older people to learn. Grandparents can and do play with such controllers. While I agree I wouldn't ship with Xbox controller, it isn't like there haven't been simple controllers in between Atari and Xbox. NES, Genesis, and SNES are all simple designs. I hope there is a consistency in all games in how you get them started/choose options/do similar tasks/ etc. Otherwise I think that will be less intuitive than a controller that has A, B, Select, Start/Pause. 1 hour ago, kevtris said: Since Intellivision seems to be pretty much out of money, they would be kind of foolish at this point to waste more money on trying to get it approved until they actually start making some. Maybe it'd be better as a "year 2" type of thing. So parents are no problem. What are your thoughts on no FCC certs yet? If they've passed the testing as they've claimed why would they hold that back and not just go ahead and submit them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SegaSnatcher Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, MrBeefy said: I think that's giving not enough credit to older people to learn. Grandparents can and do play with such controllers. While I agree I wouldn't ship with Xbox controller, it isn't like there haven't been simple controllers in between Atari and Xbox. NES, Genesis, and SNES are all simple designs. I hope there is a consistency in all games in how you get them started/choose options/do similar tasks/ etc. Otherwise I think that will be less intuitive than a controller that has A, B, Select, Start/Pause. So parents are no problem. What are your thoughts on no FCC certs yet? If they've passed the testing as they've claimed why would they hold that back and not just go ahead and submit them? The NES controller is a perfect example of a controller anyone can pretty much pick up and understand. Parents would play NES games with their kids back in the day and didn't seem to have much of an issue getting use to the controls. My Mom who is in now in her late 60s would play NES with us back when we first got one in like 1987/1988. She really enjoyed Zelda and Castlevania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 hour ago, SegaSnatcher said: The NES controller is a perfect example of a controller anyone can pretty much pick up and understand. Parents would play NES games with their kids back in the day and didn't seem to have much of an issue getting use to the controls. My Mom who is in now in her late 60s would play NES with us back when we first got one in like 1987/1988. She really enjoyed Zelda and Castlevania. Nice. My mom enjoyed Friday the 13th. Lmao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 7 hours ago, BSRSteve said: Anyone who thinks Amico could be released with X-Box controllers doesn't understand the goal of the console. X-Box controllers are not intuitive to people who are now grandparents (unless they have kept up with gaming), or to people that don't game regularly. What about the other way around? Using Amico controllers to play Intellivision Entertainment games on PC, consoles, and tablets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 10 hours ago, BSRSteve said: The goal of the "karma engine" philosophy is to allow children to compete with teens and adults on more even footing. The original plan was for it to be optional, but also that a login to the controller could allow the game to remember abilities level from previous games. In that use-case it makes at least some sense, but I just don't see their team to have the chops to implement something like that. "Engine" implies a software solution and it'd have to be some sort of external layer controlling things. Otherwise, if it's just a "philosophy" it means you need to tell every and each dev to bake it into their game. That's more doable, but still, the results might vary. As somebody who plays games with children regularly for a living, I have to employ my own Karma Engine. It's a mixture of cheating and making deliberate mistakes to ensure I win very rarely if I'm the competitor, and it is something any adult can do too. For cases where it's kids who compete with each other and you have no way of controlling the game it could be useful, but I don't see an easy way of making it happen across multiple titles. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 hour ago, youxia said: As somebody who plays games with children regularly for a living, I have to employ my own Karma Engine. It's a mixture of cheating and making deliberate mistakes to ensure I win very rarely if I'm the competitor, and it is something any adult can do too. For cases where it's kids who compete with each other and you have no way of controlling the game it could be useful, but I don't see an easy way of making it happen across multiple titles. Playing with kids is easier than some make it out to be. When it is just the kids it can be harder but that is where finding a few games that are simple can help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 17 hours ago, Lost Monkey said: Would the trinkets in boxes they have been selling on-line be enough to complete their application - even without the finished console? Using the same example as above, here is SOU for Amiga (clickable links within) that illustrate what such a filing contains: Sample SOU I should think since the game boxes illustrate use in commerce Intellivision would include those in their own SOU. Although the packing boxes have quite a variety of tms (example:Intellivision Together Again), I do not think they could use the box alone in the same terms of commerce. After shipping perhaps. #6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 12 hours ago, MrBeefy said: Nice. My mom enjoyed Friday the 13th. Lmao This explains alot. im kidding! ?? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 9 hours ago, Rev said: This explains alot. im kidding! ?? Yes I know it's a trash NES game but it's a classic with my family! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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