BackBit cartridge on the Intellivision

[8bitwidgets.com]

13 hours ago, aotta said:

I'm not interested in implementing it.

if you build it.. they will come..  if it becomes something available with all three current sd cart options, this will definitely give developers more reason to implement this as a common thing...   but yea open source is an option.

 

Also I'm sure that @evietron could probably share a few tips she's learned getting JLP working as well.  It's all out there.. API.. I don't think there is that much work really for you to implement honestly..  with the knowhow you have to do everything else, this is likely a small yet, powerful feature that could really help raise the bar in what homebrews for the intellivision can be.  I'm pretty sure if you look at all of the winners of 2023.. they all have save features..  

 

@DZ-Jay I could have sworn that @nanochess has JLP calls worked into INTY Basic already..  maybe I'm wrong.  

 

 

19 hours ago, cjherr said:

so I purchase roms and the occasional cart to do what I can. 

Agreed, I feel the same way, though on a rom level..  because honestly even if cartridge versions for $20 a pop..  I would not buy them..   I'm one of the oddballs in this regard, but my collection is more about multi systems..  more about consoles and peripherals for me than having those awesome game arsenal displays which I admire tremendously, but simply don't have the space for them..  

 

11 hours ago, DZ-Jay said:

You may not be interested in implementing it, but I believe it would be a good feature to add. 

This!

 

 

 

 

[8bitwidgets.com]

8 hours ago, mr_me said:

I think if the cartridge doesn't have save game support it can still run and play a game that uses it.  Let us know if that's not the case. 

To get the JLP games to work on the backbit there is a conversion script that has to be run turning the bin/cfg into a .ECS file..  this file now contains all the needed stuff for JLP support like this Onion file i'm attaching here

 

onion.ecs

 

This was also a thing for bad apple:

 

badApple.ecs

 

these will run perfectly on a backbit, but the .int or .bin/cfg versions would not..  not even load..  because of the JLP..   @evietron got Sorrow working with an ECS conversion and it did run without saving working..  but it didn't work running it as a non .ecs file..  that was still needed to get it playable at all. 

[+eebuckeye]

Is there any hope for the Backbit to use the same filetypes as the LTO Flash?  It would be ideal if possible and would likely have more adoption.

[8bitwidgets.com]

Just now, eebuckeye said:

Is there any hope for the Backbit to use the same filetypes as the LTO Flash? 

i mean for the most part yea it already does.  it can run .int files (IIRC) and .bin/cfg files..   I don't know how many JLP enabled games are in rom form..  I know I'm looking for some for sure now that save works and JLP in general seems to be exactly where i've wanted it!  The encryption stuff needs to be taken off the menu..  as it sounds like games made to work with the LTO are virtually impossible to run on anything else because those games are encrypted to run on a specific LTO.. not even "all LTO" only THE LTO that belongs to the owner of that copy of the game..  

 

It's great to think there are over 1,000 LTO owners..  and hopefully lots of backbit owners (using it with intellivision  ) as well though I'm sure it's not anywhere that large a number seeing the LTO has been on the scene for some time and most LTO owners probably don't have a backbit as it just wouldn't offer much that they don't already have (removable microSD card) 

 

The big reason why the backbit and RTO matter is because while I know there are 300 potential LTOs waiting to be finished / released..  it's simply great to know our platform has more options now to affordably have multicart option that has access to the vast majority of original and homebrew games in rom form..   I hope that the more multicarts we have in our community the more sense it makes for homebrewers to create rom options.  Maybe if not on day one, at least once all of the physical carts have sold and there's no more money to be made off carts..   I doubt many sales are lost with this approach..  cart buyers are going to buy carts..   rom buyers are going to buy roms..   some might do both of course..    

 

I need to find a good way to print overlays now..  i've been putting it off for awhile..  

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

4 hours ago, Caleb Garner said:

as it sounds like games made to work with the LTO are virtually impossible to run on anything else because those games are encrypted to run on a specific LTO.. not even "all LTO" only THE LTO that belongs to the owner of that copy of the game..  

 

That's correct. All the protected ROMs I've bought (mainly from Elektronite) are tied to my LTO Flash and it's unique 'DRUID' (LTO Flash! ID Number).  It's 32 characters long, but all I ever needed to give out were first 5 characters in order to receive my serialized ROM.

 

That said, unfortunately these ROMs won't play on anything except that specific LTO Flash and nothing else. Even if I had another spare LTO Flash, my serialized ROMs wouldn't work on it, only the cart it's tied to.

 

So yeah, it's a catch-22.. Super secure and all, but also crippling. If my LTO Flash ever dies, those ROMs essentially turn into 'virtual paper weights'. Anyway, hope this helps.

Edited June 2, 2023 by SiLic0ne t0aD

[Games For Your Intellivision]

22 minutes ago, SiLic0ne t0aD said:

 

That's correct. All the protected ROMs I've bought (mainly from Elektronite) are tied to my LTO Flash and it's unique 'DRUID' (LTO Flash! ID Number).  It's 32 characters long, but all I ever needed to give out were first 5 characters in order to receive my serialized ROM.

 

That said, unfortunately these ROMs won't play on anything except that specific LTO Flash and nothing else. Even if I had another spare LTO Flash, my serialized ROMs wouldn't work on it, only the cart it's tied to.

 

So yeah, it's a catch-22.. Super secure and all, but also crippling. If my LTO Flash ever dies, those ROMs essentially turn into 'virtual paper weights'. Anyway, hope this helps.

Some people who have had their LTO Flash! die, and LTO replaced it, got replacement ROMS for the new cartridge, so that's not really a concern. 

 

Right now, with some titles, it's encrypted roms or copy protected cartridges. I'm just not willing to let some games out until they at least break even. 

 

And, to answer a comment made above.....yeah, the LTO Flash! can use roms encrypted for it. It has nothing to do with other flash cartridges. No other flash cartridge can do encryption. So, yeah, encryption is not relevant to the discussion. Getting games that support bank switching extra ram and flash ram ARE important to support, because, despite some people trying to marginalize those features, there are a significant number of titles that use them and games will continue to use them more and more. 

 

 

[Games For Your Intellivision]

5 hours ago, eebuckeye said:

Is there any hope for the Backbit to use the same filetypes as the LTO Flash?  It would be ideal if possible and would likely have more adoption.

When you say the same filetype as the LTO Flash!, I assume you mean the LUIGI format? 

 

There is documentation on this type of file. I think it would be good for other flash carts to support LUIGI files. 

 

The 'int' files are just nonsense, and used by the 'Good Roms' people. The emulators generally in use can use bin/cfg and .rom files. People should rename all 'int' files to ROM if they actually include the cfg with the binary. Not all of them do in my experience and are simply renamed .bin files. 

[mr_me]

12 hours ago, Caleb Garner said:

To get the JLP games to work on the backbit there is a conversion script that has to be run turning the bin/cfg into a .ECS file..  this file now contains all the needed stuff for JLP support like this Onion file i'm attaching here

 

onion.ecs 408.11 kB · 1 download

 

This was also a thing for bad apple:

 

badApple.ecs 440.11 kB · 0 downloads

 

these will run perfectly on a backbit, but the .int or .bin/cfg versions would not..  not even load..  because of the JLP..   @evietron got Sorrow working with an ECS conversion and it did run without saving working..  but it didn't work running it as a non .ecs file..  that was still needed to get it playable at all. 

Bad Apple doesn't use any JLP feature.  Conversion to the backbit.ecs format is needed because of mattel/ecs bank switching.  Onion also uses mattel/ecs bank switching, as would Sorrow.  Don't know if either of those uses JLP hardware acceleration functions.

 

12 hours ago, Caleb Garner said:

i mean for the most part yea it already does.  it can run .int files (IIRC) and .bin/cfg files..   I don't know how many JLP enabled games are in rom form..  I know I'm looking for some for sure now that save works and JLP in general seems to be exactly where i've wanted it!  The encryption stuff needs to be taken off the menu..  as it sounds like games made to work with the LTO are virtually impossible to run on anything else because those games are encrypted to run on a specific LTO.. not even "all LTO" only THE LTO that belongs to the owner of that copy of the game.

...

The Backbit cartridge can use .rom files and .bin files directly but doesn't read .cfg files.  Rom files that don't use the default memory map have to be converted to either .rom or backbit.ecs file format.

 

7 hours ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

When you say the same filetype as the LTO Flash!, I assume you mean the LUIGI format? 

 

There is documentation on this type of file. I think it would be good for other flash carts to support LUIGI files. 

 

The 'int' files are just nonsense, and used by the 'Good Roms' people. The emulators generally in use can use bin/cfg and .rom files. People should rename all 'int' files to ROM if they actually include the cfg with the binary. Not all of them do in my experience and are simply renamed .bin files. 

I thought he meant bin/cfg format because rom files aren't typically distributed in luigi format. (Maybe Ltoflash encrypted files are.)

 

The .int files in rom collections on the Internet are the same format as .bin.  They are straight dumps of the rom chips spliced into one file.  They have no memory map information but work with most emulators because those emulators have a database of the memory maps of all the cartridges released in the 1980s.  Jzintv is one that doesn't and requires .cfg files for some of the .int/.bin files.

Edited June 2, 2023 by mr_me

[8bitwidgets.com]

6 hours ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

I assume you mean the LUIGI format? 

what format is that?  I know the other formats int rom bin.. not heard of this one.  

 

 

[8bitwidgets.com]

4 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Bad Apple doesn't use any JLP feature. 

yea just bank switching, my main point (not well stated) is that the .ecs format that @evietron has made is needed to support those features (bank switching, jlp)..  a .bin or .int or .rom would not work as is.  

 

5 minutes ago, mr_me said:

The Backbit cartridge can use .rom files and .bin files directly but doesn't read .cfg files.

right so long as they don't use bank switching or jlp stuff..

 

 

[IntellivisionDude]

Here is a couple videos i did on the Backbit. I have gotten most games to work with it except 4. Desert Bus, Fantasy Puzzle, Gosub and Wale Hunt. I have gotten a couple JLP games to work, Grail of the Gods and THE SECRET GOVERNMENT WAFFLE PROJECT

 

 

 

[8bitwidgets.com]

55 minutes ago, IntellivisionDude said:

Desert Bus, Fantasy Puzzle, Gosub and Wale Hunt.

If you haven't already, definitely reach out @evietron as she'd helped me get a number of games working early on like Atlantis and JLP for Sorrow of Gadhlan.  I bet she could help you figure out how to get those to work.  

Did you get land battle working?  that was one that i wondered works or not, but it's kind of a cryptic game so I wasn't sure if it was just my own lack of understanding. been meaning to get around to testing it more, but i understand it uses extra ram like Chess which took some special effort to get working on backbit (also one she got working for me)

[IntellivisionDude]

16 minutes ago, Caleb Garner said:

If you haven't already, definitely reach out @evietron as she'd helped me get a number of games working early on like Atlantis and JLP for Sorrow of Gadhlan.  I bet she could help you figure out how to get those to work.  

Did you get land battle working?  that was one that i wondered works or not, but it's kind of a cryptic game so I wasn't sure if it was just my own lack of understanding. been meaning to get around to testing it more, but i understand it uses extra ram like Chess which took some special effort to get working on backbit (also one she got working for me)

I posted in the forums over there so maybe Evie will see it. 

I have 2 roms of Land Battle. One has music at the beginning but i can't move around in it. The other has no music but i can move around and i can't seem to figure anything else out in it. Is it a completed game? 

Edited August 3, 2023 by IntellivisionDude

[8bitwidgets.com]

6 hours ago, IntellivisionDude said:

I posted in the forums over there so maybe Evie will see it. 

yes it's possible, but really I would advise you reach out explicitly on her site forum.  She's really helpful and will respond.  Just give as much info as you have about a given game and be ready to test firmware updates to confirm they work.   

 

 

As for land battle, i'm really not sure.  I think it's a completed game.  interesting that two different roms give different behavior.  

[mr_me]

7 hours ago, IntellivisionDude said:

I posted in the forums over there so maybe Evie will see it. 

I have 2 roms of Land Battle. One has music at the beginning but i can't move around in it. The other has no music but i can move around and i can't seem to figure anything else out in it. Is it a completed game? 

With Land Battle, the music plays when one side has defeated the other, ie. end of the game.  The one without the music is playing correctly. Most likely the memory configuration is not set correctly in the other file, the rom binary is probably the same.  Intellivision Lives comes with a working memory configuration file for Land Battle.  It is a playable game, you need the instructions, and a second player, similar to Sea Battle. 

[IntellivisionDude]

I figured out Land Battle and it does indeed work on the backibt. The manual and overlays are definitely required to figure it out. It is really complicated and a 2 player only game. But i was able to figure out how to engage the other player in close up combat, then take out the other town for victory. 

 

The other rom i have is either a bad rom or a prototype. It plays the victory music at the beginning of the game instead of after you win. 

[8bitwidgets.com]

1 hour ago, IntellivisionDude said:

I figured out Land Battle and it does indeed work on the backibt.

That is fantastic news.  it seems like a really interesting game, but yea being a 2 player only game and with those kind of layouts and rules.. definitely not casual  

 

So yea I would PM @evietron about your specific games.  She has an INTV2 which can cause some games to work for her and not for pre-2 systems..  IIRC Atlantis was one of those.. where it looked fine on hers, but for my Sears SVA system, the clouds were screwed up.  It was a small detail, but there was some small tweak she made to the firmware and boom.. it worked again! 

[IntellivisionDude]

52 minutes ago, Caleb Garner said:

 

So yea I would PM @evietron about your specific games.  She has an INTV2 which can cause some games to work for her and not for pre-2 systems..  IIRC Atlantis was one of those.. where it looked fine on hers, but for my Sears SVA system, the clouds were screwed up.  It was a small detail, but there was some small tweak she made to the firmware and boom.. it worked again! 

I posted on the backbit forum yesterday with the 4 roms in a zip file. I'm sure she is looking into it. 

[8bitwidgets.com]

51 minutes ago, IntellivisionDude said:

I'm sure she is looking into it. 

yea give her some time but it never hurts to do a PM as well.  She's very accommodating and has been great to work with on these issues.  

[timdu]

18 hours ago, IntellivisionDude said:

Here is a couple videos i did on the Backbit. I have gotten most games to work with it except 4. Desert Bus, Fantasy Puzzle, Gosub and Wale Hunt. 

 

Have you tried this version of GOSUB, which is available as a free download from INTELLIVISION.US     ?

 

https://www.intellivision.us/roms.php#revolution_free

 

 

BIN & CFG file attached

 

-Tim

GosubDigital.bin GosubDigital.cfg

[Intymike]

On 6/2/2023 at 1:09 AM, Caleb Garner said:

To get the JLP games to work on the backbit there is a conversion script that has to be run turning the bin/cfg into a .ECS file..  this file now contains all the needed stuff for JLP support like this Onion file i'm attaching here

 

onion.ecs 408.11 kB · 6 downloads

 

This was also a thing for bad apple:

 

badApple.ecs 440.11 kB · 3 downloads

 

these will run perfectly on a backbit, but the .int or .bin/cfg versions would not..  not even load..  because of the JLP..   @evietron got Sorrow working with an ECS conversion and it did run without saving working..  but it didn't work running it as a non .ecs file..  that was still needed to get it playable at all. 

Thank you for your conversion! Works fine!

[8bitwidgets.com]

@Intymike what is that box plugged into the intellvision?  i'm unfamiliar with it

[+Steve Jones]

Looks like the European ECS

[IntellivisionDude]

16 hours ago, timdu said:

 

Have you tried this version of GOSUB, which is available as a free download from INTELLIVISION.US     ?

 

https://www.intellivision.us/roms.php#revolution_free

 

 

BIN & CFG file attached

 

-Tim

GosubDigital.bin 27.77 kB · 2 downloads GosubDigital.cfg 225 B · 3 downloads

Success. I got that version to work. I did have to convert it and set the JLP flag. Thanks

gosubdigital.ecs

[8bitwidgets.com]

23 minutes ago, Steve Jones said:

Looks like the European ECS

nice i like the brown.