new atari 5200 controller Making A New Atari 5200 Controller In The Original Form Factor

[AtariBrian]

I would be in for one or two.

[leech]

1 or two for me as well.  Maybe I could find a 4 player game and 3 friends too...

[Lucas Lac124]

5 hours ago, 0078265317 said:

If it was analog maybe but the digital stick won't work with missile command and few others.  Masterplay clone is good enough.

What do you mean, "digital stick"? The whole point of this project from the beginning was to make a controller with an analog, self centering joystick in the original form factor. Missile command will work with this controller.

[0078265317]

11 hours ago, Lucas Lac124 said:

What do you mean, "digital stick"? The whole point of this project from the beginning was to make a controller with an analog, self centering joystick in the original form factor. Missile command will work with this controller.

He said something about digital potentionmeter on the first page.

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, 0078265317 said:

He said something about digital potentionmeter on the first page.

I went back and re-read this, largely because I just couldn't remember what he said in that regard.  What he said was:

On 6/19/2022 at 5:10 PM, Lucas Lac124 said:

As the highest resistance commercially available joysticks of an approximately correct form factor are 10kΩ, I've had to take the route of previous joystick attempts and use a digital potentiometer, a microcontroller, and some capacitors to simulate the correct resistance.

So while he is using digital pots, the microcontroller and caps are providing the actual values the 5200 is seeing.  FWIW, this isn't a million miles removed from the homemade digital stick for the 5200 I have kicking around here - but his solution has way more resolution of movement than the digital stick does because the stick can only provide extreme left, right, up, and down pot values from its 74-series logic.  His design can at least provide degrees of movement across the axes, which should allow for games like Missile Command to work properly.

[Lucas Lac124]

2 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

I went back and re-read this, largely because I just couldn't remember what he said in that regard.  What he said was:

So while he is using digital pots, the microcontroller and caps are providing the actual values the 5200 is seeing.  FWIW, this isn't a million miles removed from the homemade digital stick for the 5200 I have kicking around here - but his solution has way more resolution of movement than the digital stick does because the stick can only provide extreme left, right, up, and down pot values from its 74-series logic.  His design can at least provide degrees of movement across the axes, which should allow for games like Missile Command to work properly.

This is a very good description of the joystick. The joystick is effectively analog to a user, even if it isn't technically analog all the way down the chain.

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Lucas Lac124

[0078265317]

So then it's not true full analog and therefore can never truly replicate the original 80's experience.

[+cjherr]

Knowing the "limitations", I'm still in for 2.

[Lucas Lac124]

10 minutes ago, 0078265317 said:

So then it's not true full analog and therefore can never truly replicate the original 80's experience.

My intention in making this controller was to make something better than the 80s experience, not to replicate it. The original controller's joystick is not self centering: this one is. The original controller has mushy trigger buttons: this controller has more satisfying ones. The original controller used a flexible PCB that almost invariably stops working: this controller uses a normal PCB, and therefore is not prone to the same issues. If you don't like the controller, that's fine. I just don't want you to get the wrong idea about it.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Lucas Lac124

[0078265317]

2 minutes ago, Lucas Lac124 said:

My intention in making this controller was to make something better than the 80s experience, not to replicate it. The original controller's joystick is not self centering: this one is. The original controller used a flexible PCB that almost invariably stops working: this controller uses a normal PCB, and therefore is not prone to the same issues. If you don't like the controller, that's fine. I just don't want you to get the wrong idea about it.

That was the point and it is much better.  But if missile command, centipede and few others that relied on analog don't work as good then not the same.  If you are saying the digital pots can do about the same then maybe it's wort it.

 

[Lucas Lac124]

Just now, 0078265317 said:

That was the point and it is much better.  But if missile command, centipede and few others that relied on analog don't work as good then not the same.  If you are saying the digital pots can do about the same then maybe it's wort it.

 

I understand your concern. I maintain that the controller does work with such games, and I will make sure to create a video demonstration of the controller sometime soon in order to back this up.

[0078265317]

3 minutes ago, Lucas Lac124 said:

I understand your concern. I maintain that the controller does work with such games, and I will make sure to create a video demonstration of the controller sometime soon in order to back this up.

OK thanks

[0078265317]

When will these be finished.  Soon or going to be a while.

[David Alexander]

I am in for 4 Again @Lucas Lac124 thank you so much.

Edited June 7, 2023 by David Alexander

[+fdr4prez]

2 hours ago, 0078265317 said:

That was the point and it is much better.  But if missile command, centipede and few others that relied on analog don't work as good then not the same.  If you are saying the digital pots can do about the same then maybe it's wort it.

 

don't get confused about the term "digital" here.

 

a digital pot is not like ON/OFF buttons, like in a dpad.

 

If you use an analog pot (really a mechanical pot), then it can be replaced with a digital pot with all the same output, so the 5200 will not know the difference between the two and all games will be playable in the same way.

 

Digital Potentiometers Replace Mechanical Potentiometers | Analog Devices

 

Abstract

Digitally adjustable potentiometers, also known as digital potentiometers, or digpots, are replacing the old-fashioned mechanical versions in all electronic systems

[Greg2600]

Great info @fdr4prez.  I similarly wouldn't mind if this controller had the capacity to "improve" even some of the more analog games, like say Kaboom! or Pole Position, over the OEM sticks.

[+x=usr(1536)]

One thing worth mentioning: ultimately, any controller connecting to the 5200 has to do so in an analogue manner because that's what the system expects.  Since you're giving it analogue inputs when moving the controller, even if those inputs are digitally-generated they still have to be converted to analogue at some point before making it down the wire to the console's controller ports.

 

This kinda reminds me of the early days of CDs, when some albums were released with three markings denoting their recording, mastering, and duplicating stages.  Each stage received either an 'A' or 'D' marking for analogue or digital, respectively - so an AAD album would have been recorded and mastered in analogue, but the pressing masters (for duplication) would have been created from digital copies of the final mix masters.

 

The part that was always ignored was the fourth and final stage, which was fully and unavoidably analogue.  As humans generally don't have S/PDIF jacks for audio input, some form of loudspeaker (regardless of format) had to be used to send the sound waves through the air and to the ear.  It's not really terribly dissimilar from how a controller sends its directional output signals to a 5200's controller inputs as analogue signals regardless of how the controller initially generated those signals.

[0078265317]

2 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

One thing worth mentioning: ultimately, any controller connecting to the 5200 has to do so in an analogue manner because that's what the system expects.

Then how does a masterplay (clone or original) work if its digital only?

[+x=usr(1536)]

8 hours ago, 0078265317 said:

Then how does a masterplay (clone or original) work if its digital only?

I've never owned a Masterplay or clone before, so am not familiar with how they work internally.  In a general sense, however, I'd imagine that they're essentially doing what the homemade digital controller I do own does: converting a digital input to a fixed analogue value equivalent to being near or at the end of travel for a potentiometer.

 

One thing the Masterplay and its relations may do is look for a digital stick to generate movement to one of the cardinal directions (or centre position), then gradually increment or decrement the analogue potentiometer signal sent to the 5200 via a microcontroller or similar while the digital stick is held in those directions.  This would simulate moving an analogue stick through its range of movement rather than just all the way to the left or right, up or down, etc.

 

There are a couple of places where some caveats can be seen to this approach, but, again, as I don't own one of these devices or its clones can't comment directly to them.

[0078265317]

Great so  these will be ready soon.  Or it's going to be a while.

[phuzaxeman]

On 6/7/2023 at 8:14 PM, x=usr(1536) said:

 

 

This kinda reminds me of the early days of CDs, when some albums were released with three markings denoting their recording, mastering, and duplicating stages.  Each stage received either an 'A' or 'D' marking for analogue or digital, respectively - so an AAD album would have been recorded and mastered in analogue, but the pressing masters (for duplication) would have been created from digital copies of the final mix masters.

 

Just to help clarify....remember my studies in music production, the SPARS codes for an AAD album would be an analog recording, using analog mixing, and finally mastering in digital.  

[BIGHMW]

On 6/6/2023 at 6:49 PM, TrekMD said:

I'm in for 2!

I'm STILL IN for 2 as well.

 

As for those who complain about the $100.00 price tag I'm sure that once we get these beauties in our hands and get them in game shape that you will all agree that they'll be well worth the asking price.

 

This, is why the 5200, now 40 years later, is still THE BEST gaming console, considering her inaugural past and how things support wise for both controllers and also peripherals and games were as opposed to nowadays, hey, better late than never!!! It's Big Sexy's time to shine, even though it took 5 decades it looks now that it's all well worth it.

 

This coming from a 5200 owner from the get-go back when I got my first date with one for my 17th Birthday (May 19th) back in 1983. 

[0078265317]

1 hour ago, BIGHMW said:

I'm STILL IN for 2 as well.

 

As for those who complain about the $100.00 price tag I'm sure that once we get these beauties in our hands and get them in game shape that you will all agree that they'll be well worth the asking price.

 

This, is why the 5200, now 40 years later, is still THE BEST gaming console, considering her inaugural past and how things support wise for both controllers and also peripherals and games were as opposed to nowadays, hey, better late than never!!! It's Big Sexy's time to shine, even though it took 5 decades it looks now that it's all well worth it.

 

This coming from a 5200 owner from the get-go back when I got my first date with one for my 17th Birthday (May 19th) back in 1983. 

Yes, that will be awesome.  And then 2 days later after receiving the controller my 5200 will bust and stop working, haha.

[8bitAndy]

On 6/7/2023 at 5:21 PM, 0078265317 said:

So then it's not true full analog and therefore can never truly replicate the original 80's experience.

The digital pot can produce all the controller positions that the old analog pots can.

Edited June 13, 2023 by 8bitAndy

[Lucas Lac124]

Another quick update: things are moving along nicely. I will make no promises, but we are on track for some small availability in about 30 days.