Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

Gatekeeping refund racists!

Hey now! Nothing speaks to the competency of a company than blowing millions while making nothing. They and the diehard fans really showed the haters by being so competent that an idea was for the YouTubers to hand assemble them themselves.

I'm also still waiting on all the videos laughing at the haters when the Amico releases and disrupts the industry.

 

I'm also waiting on @RetroAdvisoryBoard's Amico Tenets videos, and the debunking of the hbomberguy video.

 

If you find that video too offensive you can always go to www.tommytallarico.com for a good time celebrating Tommy's greatness.

 

[mr_me]

13 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Why was Intellivision so in debt? They didn't get stuck with having to buy back their plug n plays or something did they? Was it Piko or someone suggesting they were $500,000 in debt before Tommy and the Tallamicos bought it?

Intellivision Productions didn't produce any plugnplays.  Those were licencing deals with companies like Technosource and Atgames.

 

And to clarify, Intellivision Entertainment didn't buy Intellivision Productions, they acquired some of their assets.  Intellivision Productions changed their name and continued on.  It's possible TT acquired shares in Intellivision Productions, as some have reported, but don't know if that's the case.

 

11 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I don't know the details and it wouldn't be my place to discuss them if I did. I just can confirm knowledge of the general situation at the time. I can speculate that perhaps it was some past investment they made that didn't pay off, such as the Intellivision DS collection, and ongoing staff/retail space that couldn't be covered by revenue anymore leading to an increase in debt, but I honestly don't know. I do agree that $500k seems awfully high, but these things can definitely spiral.

Virtual Play Games is the publisher on Intellivision Lives DS.  Would that not be a royalty deal for Intellivision Productions rather than an investment?

[Bill Loguidice]

34 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Virtual Play Games is the publisher on Intellivision Lives DS.  Would that not be a royalty deal for Intellivision Productions rather than an investment?

My assumption/speculation - and it's only that - is that perhaps they funded the development. Development and publishing are often independent. And perhaps the deal with the publisher was they would make x number of dollars with the first x number of units, then y number of dollars with the next whatever number of units. So perhaps they were gambling that it would sell more than it actually ended up selling. They also had their own supply of units to sell (much like with the Intellivision Flashback, among other products), which they would have had to have funded in some way (even at cost, they would still have to pay) before making the money selling their own inventory. I know they had inventory for the DS collection for quite some time.

 

 

[Flojomojo]

It's a shame that the Intellivision Lives cartridge for Nintendo DS didn't do better. While flawed, that collection and the AtGames Intellivision Flashback were the best versions of neo-Intellivision because of how they folded in the original control style. 

 

Now that 40 years have gone by, and my fond memories of the platform have been ground into dust by the contemptible fools at Intellivision Entertainment, I'm happy to move on from this thing I once liked. 

[mr_me]

5 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

My assumption/speculation - and it's only that - is that perhaps they funded the development. Development and publishing are often independent. And perhaps the deal with the publisher was they would make x number of dollars with the first x number of units, then y number of dollars with the next whatever number of units. So perhaps they were gambling that it would sell more than it actually ended up selling. They also had their own supply of units to sell (much like with the Intellivision Flashback, among other products), which they would have had to have funded in some way (even at cost, they would still have to pay) before making the money selling their own inventory. I know they had inventory for the DS collection for quite some time.

 

 

The developer on the DS edition is not one of the ones they typically used but it's possible.  Selling direct to their customer list should have made them a little more money.  They did the same with the flashbacks, initially selling controllers too cheap before raising the price.

Edited September 1, 2023 by mr_me

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

It's a shame that the Intellivision Lives cartridge for Nintendo DS didn't do better. While flawed, that collection and the AtGames Intellivision Flashback were the best versions of neo-Intellivision because of how they folded in the original control style. 

 

Now that 40 years have gone by, and my fond memories of the platform have been ground into dust by the contemptible fools at Intellivision Entertainment, I'm happy to move on from this thing I once liked. 

Don't worry. Tommy's next brand to destroy is Vectrex.

 

Also enjoy everyone!

 

[roots.genoa]

37 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Also enjoy everyone!

I'm sorry but I have a hard time imagining anyone would enjoy that, even someone that doesn't find Tommy's voice grating. 😬

[Matt_B]

I'm still miffed that he passed up on the chance to destroy the legacy of the 3DO on its 30th anniversary.

[+frankodragon]

That video of TT is a YTPMV.  It's one of those niche videos out there where they take samples of voice and mold them together. For example...

 

 

[SteveTheColecoDude]

"where they take samples of voice and mold them together"

That's going to be Tommy excuse for all his lies caught on video.

[Flojomojo]

15 hours ago, Matt_B said:

I'm still miffed that he passed up on the chance to destroy the legacy of the 3DO on its 30th anniversary.

Trip Hawkins used to tell everyone how 3DO was going to revolutionize everything and somehow he wasn’t nearly as annoying as Tommy “I’m so Extra!” Tallarico. 
 

Here’s a funny snip from when Crash’n’Burn was supposed to be the hot new thing. 
 

[Bill Loguidice]

2 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Trip Hawkins used to tell everyone how 3DO was going to revolutionize everything and somehow he wasn’t nearly as annoying as Tommy “I’m so Extra!” Tallarico. 
 

Here’s a funny snip from when Crash’n’Burn was supposed to be the hot new thing. 
 

<snip>

Not to derail again, but I'm going to derail again I guess... I *do* wonder how the 3DO would have fared had it been released at a much lower price and there was a better initial balance between eduware and games. They both dropped the price and refocused on more games just a bit too late to make enough of a difference. At the very least, they could have been able to have a bit more success early on to get to the M2, a feat that other, somewhat similar multimedia platforms of the era (and the Jaguar) likely would have never had a chance (to get to a successor) regardless of any changes they could have made. So I guess my point is, for all the hyperbole of the 3DO being the new, best model and the "future" - similar in fact to the MSX computer "revolution" from more than a decade earlier that never happened but was hyped in US media - there WAS a path, however small the chance. The Amico on the other hand had even less of a chance than those "other" multimedia-heavy consoles/set top boxes to do anything in the market. Regardless of the big talk, the best case was to carve out a survivable niche, which, as I discussed at the time was dependent upon being a lean, focused operation. As we know, the reality proved to be anything but.

[jerseystyle]

1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Not to derail again, but I'm going to derail again I guess... I *do* wonder how the 3DO would have fared had it been released at a much lower price and there was a better initial balance between eduware and games. They both dropped the price and refocused on more games just a bit too late to make enough of a difference. At the very least, they could have been able to have a bit more success early on to get to the M2, a feat that other, somewhat similar multimedia platforms of the era (and the Jaguar) likely would have never had a chance (to get to a successor) regardless of any changes they could have made. So I guess my point is, for all the hyperbole of the 3DO being the new, best model and the "future" - similar in fact to the MSX computer "revolution" from more than a decade earlier that never happened but was hyped in US media - there WAS a path, however small the chance. The Amico on the other hand had even less of a chance than those "other" multimedia-heavy consoles/set top boxes to do anything in the market. Regardless of the big talk, the best case was to carve out a survivable niche, which, as I discussed at the time was dependent upon being a lean, focused operation. As we know, the reality proved to be anything but.

I agree on the 3DO. I was very interested in it back when it released (Road Rage looked awesome) but once I saw that price tag… ouch.  I picked one up a number of years later for $50 and enjoyed the games quite a bit.

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Not to derail again, but I'm going to derail again I guess... I *do* wonder how the 3DO would have fared had it been released at a much lower price and there was a better initial balance between eduware and games. They both dropped the price and refocused on more games just a bit too late to make enough of a difference. At the very least, they could have been able to have a bit more success early on to get to the M2, a feat that other, somewhat similar multimedia platforms of the era (and the Jaguar) likely would have never had a chance (to get to a successor) regardless of any changes they could have made. So I guess my point is, for all the hyperbole of the 3DO being the new, best model and the "future" - similar in fact to the MSX computer "revolution" from more than a decade earlier that never happened but was hyped in US media - there WAS a path, however small the chance. The Amico on the other hand had even less of a chance than those "other" multimedia-heavy consoles/set top boxes to do anything in the market. Regardless of the big talk, the best case was to carve out a survivable niche, which, as I discussed at the time was dependent upon being a lean, focused operation. As we know, the reality proved to be anything but.

Amico's best chance was the pandemic where people were looking for different forms of entertainment. Which they could have capitalized on if they actually knew what they were doing and tried to get it manufactured.

[famicommander]

There was no "best chance" for the Amico. It was ill conceived from the start and there is no scenario where it was going to work out. If they had delivered exactly what they said they were going to at the height of the pandemic it would have failed spectacularly. 

 

The "best case" for them was simply waiting until after they released something to fail like the Ouya or the Atari VCS. We all know they never even got that far, but this idea that if they had just spent their money more wisely, pushed a machine out the door, or said the right things in the press everything would be fine is asinine. 

The core issue is not fundraising, manufacturing issues, unwise spending, the pandemic, Tommy saying dumb things in the media, or anything else. The core issue is there was never, ever going to be a significant market for this device. Intellivision is not a brand that matters and the concept of the Amico itself was a dumb idea regardless of branding or who came up with it. The Amico was not going to exist in a vacuum. The casual market, the family market, the retro market, the hardcore market... all of these markets are already more than adequately addressed by Nintendo, Xbox, Playstation, PCs, phones, tablets, etc.

[MrBeefy]

8 hours ago, famicommander said:

There was no "best chance" for the Amico. It was ill conceived from the start and there is no scenario where it was going to work out. If they had delivered exactly what they said they were going to at the height of the pandemic it would have failed spectacularly. 

 

The "best case" for them was simply waiting until after they released something to fail like the Ouya or the Atari VCS. We all know they never even got that far, but this idea that if they had just spent their money more wisely, pushed a machine out the door, or said the right things in the press everything would be fine is asinine. 

The core issue is not fundraising, manufacturing issues, unwise spending, the pandemic, Tommy saying dumb things in the media, or anything else. The core issue is there was never, ever going to be a significant market for this device. Intellivision is not a brand that matters and the concept of the Amico itself was a dumb idea regardless of branding or who came up with it. The Amico was not going to exist in a vacuum. The casual market, the family market, the retro market, the hardcore market... all of these markets are already more than adequately addressed by Nintendo, Xbox, Playstation, PCs, phones, tablets, etc.

Let me clarify, by best chance I mean while people couldn't buy Switches they might have been able to net some extra sales that way.

 

It was my wife's comments, who people here claimed were made up. When it was around 200-220 She flat out said she'd rather have a Switch because it actually had more casual games than appealed to her. She loved Animal Crossing and Clubhouse Games. They didn't know their supposed market and the idiots here could see past their own ignorance about it. The game lineup was terrible for a casual market. Games like Astrosmash have been around since the 70s and are still available today. If those drew in casuals it would have already happened on existing devices.

 

My interest came from the fact I love family stuff. In fact, Junior Beefy is basically the same age as this dumpster fire. So I was interested in a "Baby's first console" type situation. Which at $150 would have been around the right price, with $10 max games. I liked the idea of edutainment games but their IQ is at the same level as my ice box, and couldn't use the proper form of peek, and tried to act like it was a penis joke or something equally stupid or creepy (like Tommy talking about porn games with a 14 year old).

 

In fact, a cheap Walmart Onn tablet we got for $27 on sale did what Amico couldn't game and entertainment wise for Junior Beefy. And despite what idiots who know nothing about having kids would say, it is pretty easy to lock it down. No apps, games, or movies get through without our approval and we control the times the tablet can be used and when it locks itself. In fact we were just talking about finally getting a newer version because the battery is trash on the old one.

 

No one (me) ever said the games on Amico couldn't be fun. The experience or lack thereof just isn't worth the $200+ price tag. At that range I can play arcade classics, good cheap indie games, have games for kids, Clubhouse Games, animal crossing, or something big like Tears of the Kingdom. It can also be done via on the goal or the big TV.

 

I just find it all funny that as I type this Junior Beefy is playing Pikimn 4. They grow up to be gaming racists so fast!

 

It comes down to Tommy amd anyone that fully backed him were clearly out of touch with most things modern. The mindset encouraged here came out from the 90s and Tommy amd many seemed to think nothing in gaming really happened since that frame.

 

There's a difference between wanting something to succeed, and joining a cult amd deluding yourself to reality. Unfortunately to be considered a supporter and not a hater you had to take the later path.

 

So did they have a chance to disrupt gaming? No. Did they have a chance to maybe break even and make a few bucks and carve a splinter of a niche? Yes. Assuming they weren't incompetent idiots. Which they were. When you factor that in they never had a chance. 

 

*edit* Gaming racism in action!

Edited September 3, 2023 by MrBeefy

[famicommander]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

Did they have a chance to maybe break even and make a few bucks and carve a splinter of a niche? 

No. They absolutely were never going to break even on this. None of these alleged "family games" were anything that couldn't be done on phones or tablets or laptops or Switches or whatever other devices people already have. This mythical audience that wants a device in between the Switch and your basic off the shelf Android tablet in price doesn't exist in any significant numbers. Nobody is going to buy a whole new console and invest in a whole new ecosystem in order to play 3-10 dollar cell phone style edutainment games or Yahtzee or whatever. There are thousands of free apps on your phone's app store right now that already do that.

 

And nobody was going to walk into a store looking for a Switch, find them sold out, and walk out with an Amico instead. They'd all just wait for a Switch. Nobody loaded up on Hyperscans when the Wii was sold out everywhere. Nobody loaded up on Atari VCSes when the PS5 was sold out everywhere.

Edited September 3, 2023 by famicommander

[+GoldLeader]

You know,

 

It's fine to agree to disagree.  Without some kind of time machine or MultiVerse travelling device, we'll never know.  But if we could have stopped the biggest source of lies...If we could have had a Tommy that told the truth...(Only then IMHO would this thing have had a snowball's chance in Hell, a slim chance, but a chance all the same...)

 

Well,  Keep in mind I Hated this product and most of its very ideals,  but even I have to agree there was a possibility of success,  especially as defined in much narrower terms,  like Beefy said. 

 

For example,  (Maybe I'm just thinking out loud here;  but play along for the sake of argument):

 

 Assume Tommy was not lying about money and an angel investor,     They'd have money.   

 Assume he wasn't lying about how far along it was,     The console could have been ready for production.

 Assume he wasn't lying about the controller,      The controller would be ready and working.

 Assume he wasn't lying about how fun it was,     Maybe people would try it out and end up wanting one.

 Assume he wasn't lying about the marketing and how it hadn't begun yet,    There could have been some marketing yet to come.

 Assume there really was an Earthworm Jim sequel on the way,   That might have shifted some units.

 Assume he wasn't lying about many of the licenses they had yet to procure,     Some of those things could have interested people.

 Assume he wasn't lying about some of the people he claimed were working on things behind the scenes,   Maybe some smart people could have fixed some of the problems.

 Assume he really had Game Stop and Wal Mart on board,  because he almost did... (of course having a product would have helped)

 Just assume the guy wasn't so full of it,   Which I admit (especially in hindsight)  is Really, Really, Hard...

 

But I think the problems for this company (almost) all started at the top...There's not equal blame in all things here...There's one problem that was bigger than all of the rest...

 

And we know his name...

 

 

 

[roots.genoa]

I agree it had little chance to be successful, but the fact it didn't offer anything more than what already exists is not as relevant as famicommander suggests imho. History showed several times that some original systems failed while lazy ones succeeded, just because of... marketing. Once again I don't believe it would have happened, but good marketing can make people think they NEED to buy something even if they don't need to at all. Apple knows very well about it. 😉 (I'm of course not talking about the original iPhones or iPads here, but about the new models they had us - well, not me - buy for instance)

 

To his credit, Tommy actually managed to make hundreds (?) people think they needed that system. Well maybe a dozen that pre-ordered ten of them each, idk. 😅 But of course you only become successful when you manage to convince thousands, millions of people.

Edited September 3, 2023 by roots.genoa

[MrBeefy]

8 minutes ago, GoldLeader said:

You know,

 

It's fine to agree to disagree.  Without some kind of time machine or MultiVerse travelling device, we'll never know.  But if we could have stopped the biggest source of lies...If we could have had a Tommy that told the truth...(Only then IMHO would this thing have had a snowball's chance in Hell, a slim chance, but a chance all the same...)

 

Well,  Keep in mind I Hated this product and most of its very ideals,  but even I have to agree there was a possibility of success,  especially as defined in much narrower terms,  like Beefy said. 

 

For example,  (Play along for the sake of argument):

 

 Assume Tommy was not lying about money and an angel investor,     They'd have money.   

 Assume he wasn't lying about how far along it was,     The console could have been ready for production.

 Assume he wasn't lying about the controller,      The controller would be ready and working.

 Assume he wasn't lying about how fun it was,     Maybe people would try it out and end up wanting one.

 Assume he wasn't lying about the marketing and how it hadn't begun yet,    There could have been some marketing yet to come.

 Assume there really was an Earthworm Jim sequel on the way,   That might have shifted some units.

 Assume he wasn't lying about many of the licenses they had yet to procure,     Some of those things could have interested people.

 Assume he wasn't lying about some of the people he claimed were working on things behind the scenes,   Maybe some smart people could have fixed some of the problems.

 Assume he really had Game Stop and Wal Mart on board,  because he almost did... (of course having a product would have helped)

 Just assume the guy wasn't so full of it,   Which I admit (especially in hindsight)  is Really, Really, Hard...

 

But I think the problems for this company (almost) all started at the top...There's not equal blame in all things here...There's one problem that was bigger than all of the rest...

 

And we know his name...

 

 

 

There was a point that if they had their head out of their behinds, they would have made $100 per console sold. They didn't have it done as claimed by Tommy. Then Tommy's great business savvy cut off all chances by making the Sudesh deal. So at that point they would have only broke even on every console sold. Then because they weren't done or ordered their parts they screwed themselves over even more. 🤣

 

You also bring up a great point about the investor. They never had one. Tommy was trying "to Secret" his way into one. At best he had someone say, whip up something show it to me and we will see. What they showed wasn't good. Really at that point they should have shut it down.

 

And I do think some people have forgotten how stupid people were being in trying to find entertainment while stuck at home. I'm thinking small scale. This will ruffle some feathers, but I'd say Evercade has been successful by peddling a majority of mid-tier to crap games. And that console also has a good deal of crossover with Amico fanatics. 🤷‍♂️

4 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

I agree it had little chance to be successful, but the fact it didn't offer anything more than what already exists is not as relevant as famicommander suggests imho. History showed several times that some original systems failed while lazy ones succeeded, just because of... marketing. Once again I don't believe it would have happened, but good marketing can make people think they NEED to buy something even if they don't need to at all. Apple knows very well about it. 😉 (I'm of course not talking about the original iPhones or iPads here, but about the new models they had us - well, not me - buy for instance)

 

To his credit, Tommy actually managed to make hundreds (?) people think they needed that system. Well maybe a dozen that pre-ordered ten of them each, idk. 😅 But of course you only become successful when you manage to convince thousands, millions of people.

There were plenty of sheep who really jumped in deep into THE SWITCH IS FOR PORN AND DOESN'T HAVE GOOD CASUAL GAMES, OR TOO BIG GAMES, OR ARCADE GAMES, OR GAMES CHEAPER THAN $19575729.00!!!!

 

I mean how many people here bought multiple preorders for 1) to get different colors, and 2) to give away to someone else? Which #2 was probably their subconscious telling them their friends or family won't want it. Heck some people are still holding onto the idea of it and not asking for their money back. 

[Bill Loguidice]

7 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

And I do think some people have forgotten how stupid people were being in trying to find entertainment while stuck at home. I'm thinking small scale. This will ruffle some feathers, but I'd say Evercade has been successful by peddling a majority of mid-tier to crap games. And that console also has a good deal of crossover with Amico fanatics. 🤷‍♂️

 

I mostly agree with your comments, but I do take issue with your assessment of Evercade. To me, they're the embodiment of niche done right. They identified what their target market wanted/liked/would support and went ahead and did it. While I absolutely agree that a good percentage of the Evercade collection is in fact crap to mid-tier games, that doesn't take away from the fact that people still want to play those games. If you think about it, even though we like to remember and focus on the "hits" from our past, it's the "deep cuts" that most of us played just as much of, good, bad, or otherwise. If you're playing on nostalgia, it's not a bad approach to try and cover exactly what we experienced back in the day, which again, was a mix of everything. I also note that a lot of the comments related to Evercade are about people discovering what for them are hidden gems and their first exposure to certain games. That's one of the reasons for having a larger collection of games with some duds versus a smaller collection with just the hits. Someone(s) is going to discover a new favorite.

There IS an interesting psychology there. When I worked at AtGames, the Legends Ultimate launched with 350 games onboard. There were roughly 50 heavy hitter all-time classics. The rest were the deep cuts, meh games, etc. A lot of people focused on the idea that there were "no good games" or it was mostly crap because they were overwhelmed by the amount of games included. Arcade1Up on the other hand, released an Atari cabinet with something like 12 games - each of which could be found on the Legends Ultimate - and was not accused of the same thing. So essentially, for around the same price, you could get those 12 games or those 12 games plus more to get to 350 and a bigger machine with a bigger monitor and more controls, etc. But still, some only saw the so-called "filler" games and not the all-time classics because they couldn't be bothered to parse the whole list and the cabinet was not themed to one specific IP or brand. There's something to be said for giving the customer less, even if it's a lot less. It's sometimes a bit too much to expect the consumer to put a lot of thought into a purchase. Giving them less to think about is sometimes better. I think that applies in some ways to the perception of the Evercade, but again, their approach works for them and their audience, so I'm glad they take the "mixed" rather than "only hits" approach. 

Along those same lines, I was playing Anstream on my Xbox Series X again last night, and was again presented with overwhelming choice. There are obvious all-time classics on there like Gauntlet, BurgerTime, Smash TV, etc., as well as the aforementioned "deep cuts," and frankly, some deep cuts that have no business trying to be played with a controller rather than a keyboard. I'm a bit ambivalent overall about the service, as it does some things brilliantly and others are a bit frustrating, not the least of which is none of the games seem to be locally cached (no doubt contractually) versus needing to be constantly streamed. I always wonder about lag in the back of my mind, even though the console I was playing it on was hardwired on a Gigabit+ connection. In any case, my main problem with the service is figuring out what to play (which I know kind of takes some of the wind out of my previous arguments). I don't always want to go back to the all-time classics, but that's the path of least resistance for sure. Ultimately, it's up to the provider to make the successful argument to the consumer that more is better (and make doing so as easy and accessible as possible) rather than something that's solely curated. 

[famicommander]

10 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

You know,

 

It's fine to agree to disagree.  Without some kind of time machine or MultiVerse travelling device, we'll never know.  But if we could have stopped the biggest source of lies...If we could have had a Tommy that told the truth...(Only then IMHO would this thing have had a snowball's chance in Hell, a slim chance, but a chance all the same...)

 

Well,  Keep in mind I Hated this product and most of its very ideals,  but even I have to agree there was a possibility of success,  especially as defined in much narrower terms,  like Beefy said. 

 

For example,  (Maybe I'm just thinking out loud here;  but play along for the sake of argument):

 

 Assume Tommy was not lying about money and an angel investor,     They'd have money.   

 Assume he wasn't lying about how far along it was,     The console could have been ready for production.

 Assume he wasn't lying about the controller,      The controller would be ready and working.

 Assume he wasn't lying about how fun it was,     Maybe people would try it out and end up wanting one.

 Assume he wasn't lying about the marketing and how it hadn't begun yet,    There could have been some marketing yet to come.

 Assume there really was an Earthworm Jim sequel on the way,   That might have shifted some units.

 Assume he wasn't lying about many of the licenses they had yet to procure,     Some of those things could have interested people.

 Assume he wasn't lying about some of the people he claimed were working on things behind the scenes,   Maybe some smart people could have fixed some of the problems.

 Assume he really had Game Stop and Wal Mart on board,  because he almost did... (of course having a product would have helped)

 Just assume the guy wasn't so full of it,   Which I admit (especially in hindsight)  is Really, Really, Hard...

 

But I think the problems for this company (almost) all started at the top...There's not equal blame in all things here...There's one problem that was bigger than all of the rest...

 

And we know his name..

 

No. There was no market, there was never going to be a market. There's no hook. There's absolutely no reason anyone would look at an Amico and a Switch and decide to walk out of the store with an Amico, even if every single one of your hypotheticals were true. Nobody is buying a console for an Earthworm Jim game.

 

There was also no incentive to make games for the system, and no incentive to make exclusives.

[MrBeefy]

24 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I mostly agree with your comments, but I do take issue with your assessment of Evercade. To me, they're the embodiment of niche done right. They identified what their target market wanted/liked/would support and went ahead and did it. While I absolutely agree that a good percentage of the Evercade collection is in fact crap to mid-tier games, that doesn't take away from the fact that people still want to play those games. If you think about it, even though we like to remember and focus on the "hits" from our past, it's the "deep cuts" that most of us played just as much of, good, bad, or otherwise. If you're playing on nostalgia, it's not a bad approach to try and cover exactly what we experienced back in the day, which again, was a mix of everything. I also note that a lot of the comments related to Evercade are about people discovering what for them are hidden gems and their first exposure to certain games. That's one of the reasons for having a larger collection of games with some duds versus a smaller collection with just the hits. Someone(s) is going to discover a new favorite.

There IS an interesting psychology there. When I worked at AtGames, the Legends Ultimate launched with 350 games onboard. There were roughly 50 heavy hitter all-time classics. The rest were the deep cuts, meh games, etc. A lot of people focused on the idea that there were "no good games" or it was mostly crap because they were overwhelmed by the amount of games included. Arcade1Up on the other hand, released an Atari cabinet with something like 12 games - each of which could be found on the Legends Ultimate - and was not accused of the same thing. So essentially, for around the same price, you could get those 12 games or those 12 games plus more to get to 350 and a bigger machine with a bigger monitor and more controls, etc. But still, some only saw the so-called "filler" games and not the all-time classics because they couldn't be bothered to parse the whole list and the cabinet was not themed to one specific IP or brand. There's something to be said for giving the customer less, even if it's a lot less. It's sometimes a bit too much to expect the consumer to put a lot of thought into a purchase. Giving them less to think about is sometimes better. I think that applies in some ways to the perception of the Evercade, but again, their approach works for them and their audience, so I'm glad they take the "mixed" rather than "only hits" approach. 

Along those same lines, I was playing Anstream on my Xbox Series X again last night, and was again presented with overwhelming choice. There are obvious all-time classics on there like Gauntlet, BurgerTime, Smash TV, etc., as well as the aforementioned "deep cuts," and frankly, some deep cuts that have no business trying to be played with a controller rather than a keyboard. I'm a bit ambivalent overall about the service, as it does some things brilliantly and others are a bit frustrating, not the least of which is none of the games seem to be locally cached (no doubt contractually) versus needing to be constantly streamed. I always wonder about lag in the back of my mind, even though the console I was playing it on was hardwired on a Gigabit+ connection. In any case, my main problem with the service is figuring out what to play (which I know kind of takes some of the wind out of my previous arguments). I don't always want to go back to the all-time classics, but that's the path of least resistance for sure. Ultimately, it's up to the provider to make the successful argument to the consumer that more is better (and make doing so as easy and accessible as possible) rather than something that's solely curated. 

You do realize you took issue with my assessment of Evercade, and proceeded to say how it has a majority of mid tier crap right?

 

I didn't say less is more. I said they have been successful by peddling low range "crap games" in same vein as Amico. 

 

Literally on of my family's favorite games is NES Friday the 13th. It was a game that not just us kids but our mom would play. I love it, but I'm not going to convince myself if Evercade came out with a cart with it on it, that it still isn't a low tier game. Nor a system seller. Blaze is selling nostalgia. If they stopped selling oversized SD cards and went full digital would everyone who like it still like it? If the answer is no, then it isn't about the games.

 

I don't have an aversion to filler. I own an AtGames Gen 1 Sega handheld. I never understood why those games (funnily enough one is shark shark) upset people.

 

What are the "must play deep cuts" of Evercade?

[famicommander]

Evercade is not a reasonable comparison to Amico. Atari VCS and Ouya are reasonable comparisons to Amico. Evercade is essentially an NES Classic or Sega Genesis Mini with interchangeable cartridges.

Edited September 3, 2023 by famicommander

[MrBeefy]

10 minutes ago, famicommander said:

No. There was no market, there was never going to be a market. There's no hook. There's absolutely no reason anyone would look at an Amico and a Switch and decide to walk out of the store with an Amico, even if every single one of your hypotheticals were true. Nobody is buying a console for an Earthworm Jim game.

 

There was also no incentive to make games for the system, and no incentive to make exclusives.

I think we are splitting hairs over the idea vs reality. 

 

That was the crux of the Amico issue. They said the idea of Amico was one thing, while the reality of Amico was another.

 

Their market is actually the same as Evercade, with how they implemented everything.

 

Also, at the price points the Amico landed at you are right that no one in their right mind would walk out the store with an Amico over a Switch. Any Amico success needed to be at a non-scary impulse buy realm.