Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[SegaSnatcher]

9 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Yup. It is a code in a box that he was able to convince some was somehow special and not 100% digital.

 

It is a 100% digital console. When IE goes under there will be no transferring of anything, nor can you play the games from code card. 

 

In fact if it worked like he described it would mean that everyone would lose their code in box games. That would mean after IE went under you wouldn't be able to verify you own it and never be able to play them. 🤣🤣🤣

I don't personally mind a 100% digital console as long as your game library is managed well and the online store is easy to navigate.   

I just don't trust I.E. in being able to do this successfully.  

[atarifan88]

On 8/8/2022 at 10:14 PM, MrBeefy said:

Did you know the Italian word for friend is amico?

Apparently the Italian word for fraud is frode.  Maybe amico was just a placeholder name like stella was for the atari? 😁

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

Yup. It is a code in a box that he was able to convince some was somehow special and not 100% digital.

 

It is a 100% digital console. When IE goes under there will be no transferring of anything, nor can you play the games from code card. 

 

In fact if it worked like he described it would mean that everyone would lose their code in box games. That would mean after IE went under you wouldn't be able to verify you own it and never be able to play them. 🤣🤣🤣

How it was described is that if the Amico gets disconnected from the server and an rfid game gets deauthorised, then you can activate it with a tap of the rfid card while it's offline.

 

In the original concept they may have wanted physical media, but that quickly changed to digital distribution only.  And they've always said as such when asked about their boxed games.  The ID in RFID means a unique identifying code, and the rfid card does come in a box.  Unlike other game systems code-in-box, they are transferable, and you shouldn't have to type anything in.

 

1 hour ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I don't personally mind a 100% digital console as long as your game library is managed well and the online store is easy to navigate.   

I just don't trust I.E. in being able to do this successfully.  

Unless you're a collector or want to give a physical gift, most people won't want to pay extra for boxed editions.

Edited August 10, 2022 by mr_me

[Rev]

Undeniable the “physical products” are a code in a box, they come in a box, the cards have a code on them, along with RFID.

[Rev]

Been reading through the Amico patent. A couple of observations. 

 

1. It was filed on 2-11-2021, 4 months after the original launch date. Why file for your console patent AFTER you was supposed to launch, they *should* of been filed long before that right?  
 

2. Is this patent even approved?  Didnt see where it said approved…If not… Does it need to be prior to launch?

 

3. I did not see any mention of NFT. Why not? If “every game is an NFT” why not mention it, maybe its not patentable? Maybe NFT was made up?   Who knows….
 

https://uspto.report/company/Intellivision-Entertainment-L-L-C/patents

Edited August 10, 2022 by Rev

[mr_me]

This question has been asked before, you don't need a patent to release a product. As long as their work is documented, it doesn't matter when the patent application is filed (I think it's up to twelve months after it's on the market).  NFT has already been used by others for video game licenses.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by mr_me

[Rev]

Found this regarding patents, so yes, you can release your product with no patent, you just are not protected if it is not filed. 
 

I guess Intellivision Emtertainment did not care if their console has protection when it was on the launchpad for release on 10/10/2020. To be protected it would need to of been filed with enough time prior to release……unless they KNEW the 10/10/2020 date was a pipe dream.   And if they knew that date was not real, why wait so long to announce it?     
 

Oh what a web they weave when they set out to deceive.

 

https://patents.stackexchange.com/questions/3658/can-i-release-my-product-without-patenting-it-and-if-so-do-i-need-special-terms

[mr_me]

The courts look at more than patent filings.  They look at documented evidence to resolve he said she said scenarios. 

 

Maybe they should have had the patent application filed before the release in October 2020, but they announced the release was postponed back in August 2020, and were talking about it months before that.

Edited August 10, 2022 by mr_me

[MattPilz]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

The ID in RFID means a unique identifying code, and the rfid card does come in a box.  Unlike other game systems code-in-box, they are transferable, and you shouldn't have to type anything in.

The printed code on the cards is required to transfer ownership unless the previous owner deauthorizes their copy manually.

 

Tommy (Scarrs Gaming - Oct. 2021): Every single game also has a physical serial number on it so if I buy it off eBay and the person forgot to disassociate it, when I go to tap it on my Amico it'll say "hey this is already registered to somebody else. Can you input the serial number into there." So it knows that I have the card because I just tapped it on it, and it knows, then I have to put in the serial number as well. So those two combinations, having the physical card and the numbers it will automatically disassociate it and tag it to the new system.

 

When people asked Tommy what would happen if a user kept their machine offline, he came up with the notion that physical RFID cards would need to be tapped each time to play if the system was offline. This deviates from the "no Internet required after downloading" concept as well as the simplicity of physical-free launching for those who may only have the physical media games.

Edited August 10, 2022 by MattPilz

[MattPilz]

1 hour ago, Rev said:

2. Is this patent even approved?  Didnt see where it said approved…If not… Does it need to be prior to launch?

No. They didn't have a single patent request approved, all were rejected in March after the reviewer found prior art/patents that mimic what they were claiming as new ideas. The other two requests were self-withdrawn.

 

 

In February 2022 when they launched the Start Engine campaign, their patent submissions were all still pending and under review. None had been approved. But in the campaign they still included this blurb:

Nick later said he'd look into adjusting that wording to be more accurate but it was never updated. This is a clause that shouldn't had ever appeared in the first place knowing it wasn't true and that many parties at both Intellivision and StartEngine reviewed the campaign for any inaccuracies before launching it as required in StartEngine's honesty terms.

 

One of the main prior patents cited in the rejection including for their "Karma Game Engine" was this one from 2008:

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080268943A1/en

 

It reads nearly verbatim what Intellivision was claiming their patented tech would do, even though Tommy conceded in interviews it was just a marketing gimmick.

 

"Methods, apparatuses, and techniques for adjustment of game parameters based on users' performance are described. During play of a game a user's performance is monitored. It is then determined if the player's performance is within a desired range of performance, and game parameters are adjusted if the user's performance is outside the desired range. In a multi-player game, parameters can be adjusted differently for each of the players to make the overall game play more competitive." 

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by MattPilz

[Flojomojo]

3 hours ago, mr_me said:

Albert was right, best not to talk about Amico on Atariage until it's released but people here insist on it.

I'm happy to see that we can agree on something -- the product should never have been hyped up to the moon and back before it was finished, and certainly not for the sole purpose of fundraising. I don't think that was "by popular demand" or because "people here insist on it." Albert has removed all other discussion of Amico and only given an oblique explanation as to why. 

 

This was mentioned in yesterday's CU Podcast, where they read out @godslabrat's pointed questions about how this was handled. 

https://anchor.fm/thecupodcast/episodes/328---Intellivision-Amico-Internal-Docs-Leaked--Pac-Man-Movie-Announced--Gaming-Pandemic-Boom-Ends-e1mantv/a-a8c5dl1 it's at 1:23:37

 

I know you're busy with the technical upgrade @Albert but some acknowledgement of these concerns would be nice, even if you say nothing more than "I don't want to talk about that more than I already have." It was a major part of the scene here for a long time, and left a lasting mark, even though the subforum was hidden. Are there legal concerns? Are you trying to avoid drama? Sweeping it under the rug doesn't undo the damage done to the community and the credibility of retro gaming. You don't necessarily need to call out Amico to do the right thing by the people who were hurt by it. 

 

The hidden thread, which someone preserved elsewhere, is historically interesting, and serves as a paper trail for promises made but then dropped. I'm sure it's embarrassing and possibly incriminating to the company, but is that any reason to give them special treatment?

 

The guy is on top of the AtariAge Leaderboard for most reputation, but the vast majority of the posts that got him there are hidden? What gives?

 

 

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

In the original concept they may have wanted physical media, but that quickly changed to digital distribution only.  And they've always said as such when asked about their boxed games.  The ID in RFID means a unique identifying code, and the rfid card does come in a box.  Unlike other game systems code-in-box, they are transferable, and you shouldn't have to type anything in.

As far as I'm concerned, none of it is real until it's actually shown working in customer's hands. The former CEO claimed that it would solve a lot of complaints people had about other forms of physical and digital media, but what was shown is just the same old thing with a gimmicky interface, and no content to justify its existence. Did you buy the "physical product?"

 

21 minutes ago, Rev said:

I guess Intellivision Emtertainment did not care if their console has protection when it was on the launchpad for release on 10/10/2020. To be protected it would need to of been filed with enough time prior to release……unless they KNEW the 10/10/2020 date was a pipe dream.   And if they knew that date was not real, why wait so long to announce it?     

I think the answer is pretty clear, it's because the application itself was what they were trying to promote, in order to woo easily-impressed investors. Have you flipped through the document? There are a lot of descriptions of things that will never come to pass. 

[crade]

4 hours ago, mr_me said:

Albert was right, best not to talk about Amico on Atariage until it's released but people here insist on it.

 

It's most likely as released as it's getting, but I expect many of the people involved feel it would be better just be stuffed down a memory hole and never spoken about again.  I kindof wish I could forget

[crade]

Any of you guys hear about that new guy Tommy entering the console market for the first time with his Fairchild Ragazzo?  Started taking pre-orders, should be out in no time!  Can't wait.  He was involved in developing Earthworm Jim and ..  spoiler, he said a sequel is in the works!

Edited August 10, 2022 by crade
typo

[mr_me]

46 minutes ago, MattPilz said:

...

When people asked Tommy what would happen if a user kept their machine offline, he came up with the notion that physical RFID cards would need to be tapped each time to play if the system was offline. This deviates from the "no Internet required after downloading" concept as well as the simplicity of physical-free launching for those who may only have the physical media games.

Internet shouldn't be required to re-activate an RFID game that's already been installed.  

Edited August 10, 2022 by mr_me

[Rev]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

The courts look at more than patent filings.  They look at documented evidence to resolve he said she said scenarios. 

 

Maybe they should have had the patent application filed before the release in October 2020, but they announced the release was postponed back in August 2020, and were talking about it months before that.

Yes right around two months before the first release date is when it was announced. 
 

Its obvious they knew that date was not real or they didnt want protection. 
 

 

[Rev]

37 minutes ago, MattPilz said:

No. They didn't have a single patent request approved, all were rejected in March after the reviewer found prior art/patents that mimic what they were claiming as new ideas. The other two requests were self-withdrawn.

 

 

In February 2022 when they launched the Start Engine campaign, their patent submissions were all still pending and under review. None had been approved. But in the campaign they still included this blurb:

Nick later said he'd look into adjusting that wording to be more accurate but it was never updated. This is a clause that shouldn't had ever appeared in the first place knowing it wasn't true and that many parties at both Intellivision and StartEngine reviewed the campaign for any inaccuracies before launching it as required in StartEngine's honesty terms.

 

One of the main prior patents cited in the rejection including for their "Karma Game Engine" was this one from 2008:

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080268943A1/en

 

It reads nearly verbatim what Intellivision was claiming their patented tech would do, even though Tommy conceded in interviews it was just a marketing gimmick.

 

"Methods, apparatuses, and techniques for adjustment of game parameters based on users' performance are described. During play of a game a user's performance is monitored. It is then determined if the player's performance is within a desired range of performance, and game parameters are adjusted if the user's performance is outside the desired range. In a multi-player game, parameters can be adjusted differently for each of the players to make the overall game play more competitive." 

 

 

So we know that a company CAN release a product with no approved patent, but SHOULD they?   What company is stupid enough to release a product with no approved patent? 
 

Dont answer that!

[mr_me]

10 minutes ago, Rev said:

Yes right around two months before the first release date is when it was announced. 
 

Its obvious they knew that date was not real or they didnt want protection. 
 

 

I knew because they were talking about it for months before August.  When the August announcement came the question was not if it would be delayed but how long.   As you know they can file the application up to 12 months after release and they are protected.  Obviously they knew before the August announcement, what's the significance about when they knew?  That release date was selected back in 2018, before they even hired any engineers.  That's only two years to engineer a console, controllers, develop a library of games and supporting systems, and hire all the people to do it.  Even without the pandemic a delay wouldn't have been surprising.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Rev said:

 

So we know that a company CAN release a product with no approved patent, but SHOULD they?   What company is stupid enough to release a product with no approved patent? 
 

Dont answer that!

Well in this case the patent application file is definitely dated well before the product is released.

Edited August 10, 2022 by mr_me

[Rev]

1 minute ago, mr_me said:

I knew because they were talking about it for months before August.  When the August announcement came the question was not if it would be delayed but how long.   As you know they can file the application up to 12 months after release and they are protected.  Obviously they knew before the August announcement, what's the significance about when they knew?  That release date was selected back in 2018, before they even hired any engineers.  That's only two years to engineer a console, controllers, develop a library of games and supporting systems.  Even without the pandemic a delay wouldn't have been surprising.

 

 

Well in this case the patent application file is definitely dated well before the product is released.

Part of that patent includes the boxed key game codes/cards.  
 

Does the clock start ticking when they began selling those?

 

Defiantly part of the patent. 

[mr_me]

Doesn't matter because the patent was filed before the rfid cards were sold.

[Rev]

4 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Doesn't matter because the patent was filed before the rfid cards were sold.

There is a time limit for protection based on filing.

[MattPilz]

57 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Internet shouldn't be required to re-activate an RFID game that's already been installed.  

Internet wouldn't be, but the tedium of having to continuously put an RFID card up to it just to play it if you're offline takes away a lot of the convenience (and takes me back to the Hyperscan days, which was a novelty that wore off real quick when you had to scan cards just to play). People who bought the physical sets would be compelled to buy the digital too just so they didn't have to deal with that but then you'd lose out on the box edition exclusives that'd show on screen. I think the process seems overly complicated in general.

 

50 minutes ago, Rev said:

So we know that a company CAN release a product with no approved patent, but SHOULD they?   What company is stupid enough to release a product with no approved patent? 

I think that many startups and small operations don't bother with patents because of the cost associated with it. The risk they run is someone else stealing their ideas and patenting it themselves. But in this case the reviewer found multiple old patents that consume anything Intellivision filed itself, so nothing on Amico is deemed unique enough to patent and conversely in some ways could be considered patent infringing on the past active works and ideas including that karma gaming concept. Though I think even that idea is too broad to be easily enforced in a dispute.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by MattPilz

[jerseystyle]

Well it’s all a moot point now, because Farkle (Greed) was just released on Playdate!

 

https://largemann.itch.io/playdice-playdate

 

Since the Amico folks oddly pushed the heck out of this game I’m assuming that those 3 Billion folks are gonna be lining up behind Playdate now.

 

I appreciate the fact that we are getting Farkle on a console that actually released and, more importantly, has shown lots of POST RELEASE CONTENT. 
 

 

[+5-11under]

3 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

Well it’s all a moot point now

You could have pretty much stopped with these words... .

[Rev]

33 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

Well it’s all a moot point now, because Farkle (Greed) was just released on Playdate!

 

https://largemann.itch.io/playdice-playdate

 

Since the Amico folks oddly pushed the heck out of this game I’m assuming that those 3 Billion folks are gonna be lining up behind Playdate now.

 

I appreciate the fact that we are getting Farkle on a console that actually released and, more importantly, has shown lots of POST RELEASE CONTENT. 
 

 

I thought these Amico exclusives were exclusives, and only playable with the Amico controller.  
 

 

[MattPilz]

52 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

more importantly, has shown lots of POST RELEASE CONTENT. 

And that's the beauty of embracing open source development. It's the main reason I pre-ordered one too, I look forward to developing on it when it arrives. Plus the 24 pack-in games that have been well received. 

 

When I first backed Amico I really thought it'd be inviting for indie development and sideloading content especially since it is Android based. That would've been a nice perk and seems almost essential to sustaining and flourishing a new console's ecosystem.