DO NOT READ. This thread is bad.

[+Stephen]

28 minutes ago, TwentySixHundred said:

I don't post often however i am around to see what's happening in 7800 development.

 

I must say the atmosphere around here is grim and little sad to say the least. Considering it's a shared forum and even though general forum ethics are not always applied by said member, this is not really the spirit i have known AA to be. After i found out they're actually 14 not 16 or even an adult, it all made sense to me.

 

Probably best to just show some leniency and let them be. After all most of us have 40+ years of life experience over the lad.

Once, twice, maybe three times.  But come on.  I haven't commented, but I've been witness to at least EIGHT different times the same stuff has been said.  Multiple nudges in kind, multiple warnings about what would happen.  It's frustrating when someone sees this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, only to have people come in and think this is a first time offender being given a community beat down.  the real world doesn't work this way.  Online shouldn't either.  Good manners don't cost anything.  if someone is not willing nor capable of learning to behave, then they don't need to be coddled.

[+TwentySixHundred]

20 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Once, twice, maybe three times.  But come on.  I haven't commented, but I've been witness to at least EIGHT different times the same stuff has been said.  Multiple nudges in kind, multiple warnings about what would happen.  It's frustrating when someone sees this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, only to have people come in and think this is a first time offender being given a community beat down.  the real world doesn't work this way.  Online shouldn't either.  Good manners don't cost anything.  if someone is not willing nor capable of learning to behave, then they don't need to be coddled.

I never argued the point, i have also said something as a friendly nudge. The issue is the atmosphere it creates by responding to the nonsense. As a father of a daughter who loves a good argument, and fully grown adult im not going to get into a tiff with a 14 year old child. It's ridicules and sad to say the least no matter how rude or annoying they maybe. I have spoken out because it's depressing and most the time could be avoided by not feeding the 'fish' to begin with.

[+x=usr(1536)]

10 hours ago, Stephen said:

Once, twice, maybe three times.  But come on.  I haven't commented, but I've been witness to at least EIGHT different times the same stuff has been said.  Multiple nudges in kind, multiple warnings about what would happen.  It's frustrating when someone sees this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, only to have people come in and think this is a first time offender being given a community beat down.  the real world doesn't work this way.  Online shouldn't either.  Good manners don't cost anything.  if someone is not willing nor capable of learning to behave, then they don't need to be coddled.

Adding to this: Ecernosoft and I had a reasonably extensive discussion in PMs regarding why his behaviour was leading to annoyance amongst quite a few of the forum regulars.  I'm not going to bring up specifics, but it ended with him saying that he would make changes in order to mitigate the friction that he had been causing.

 

Unfortunately, after seeing some early signs of potential improvement, he ultimately decided to throw a tantrum and lash out at people who had been trying to legitimately assist him with aspects of game development.  From my perspective, this led to him becoming the second person on AA to make it to my ignore list - not because anything that he said to me in lashing out was particularly offensive or upsetting, but because I saw no point in seeing more of him treating people like crap who were volunteering their time and effort to help him.

 

One thing that was said to Ecernosoft (on, I believe, more than one occasion) was that there are other people here in his age range who do not attract the wrath of others because they haven't been behaving the way that he was.  Example: he was requested - repeatedly - to stop posting irrelevant and/or pointless replies to threads.  This led to an 'I'll try better' response on a number of occasions, followed by him finally saying something to the effect of, 'oh well, I guess that's just how I'm going to be' and going right back to doing the things that were annoying everyone else.

 

That is a conscious decision on his behalf to continue being at odds with everyone who has tried to help him to fit in, and there is absolutely no reason why he couldn't fit in except that he just can't be bothered.

[+x=usr(1536)]

8 minutes ago, TwentySixHundred said:

I never argued the point, i have also said something as a friendly nudge. The issue is the atmosphere it creates by responding to the nonsense. As a father of a daughter who loves a good argument, and fully grown adult im not going to get into a tiff with a 14 year old child. It's ridicules and sad to say the least no matter how rude or annoying they maybe. I have spoken out because it's depressing and most the time could be avoided by not feeding the 'fish' to begin with.

While I agree with the points you're bringing up, everything you're describing is happening both face-to-face and between a parent and a child.  That creates a very different dynamic to the ones found online, which leads to significantly different behaviours on both sides of the equation.

[+Stephen]

It all boils down to something that has been lost on this generation of "everyone gets a participation trophy".  I will spell it out simply.  ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.  YOU and YOU ALONE are responsible for how others perceive you.  You do not deserve a "safe space".  The majority does not have to change their perception to bend to your reality.

[+TwentySixHundred]

Like i said i don't agree with his forum ethics and behavior. However even in the street face to face if a 14 year old was rude to me i wouldn't even respond. I really feel in this environment the report function works better than getting into an never ending tiff. Admins and moderators have that role for this very reason otherwise what's the point. Also im not siding even though by speaking up it will put me on the left wing. Just think this should be handled by admins and moderators

[+remowilliams]

I've also refrained from replying in any of the endless posts as I didn't want to be perceived by passers by as 'another person piling on' - as happens entirely incorrectly and entirely too often...

 

But I will now.  Folks replying to someone (regardless of age) in good faith and repeating some things many many many times in genuine attempts to try to guide them towards more positive outcomes in several different ways is not attacking them or being adversarial.

 

I'll also add this sadly and entirely often overlooked bit of truth - being held accountable for the outcomes and ramifications of your own actions is not 'drama'  Stop saying that.

 

[+TwentySixHundred]

Another user had the right approach by reporting and getting him blocked from their thread. If everyone did the same he would be blocked from all their threads and left to his own. From there you hit ignore and never hear from him again. This is what im trying to explain. It's really easy to deal with these issues in life. Who actually knows what the kids issues are, he could have mental health issues that causes his ADHD like behavior. Personally i just can't argue with a 14 year old kid i have never met with whatever issues he may have. Pleasantly or not, although i seem to be the only one around here with that outlook.

[rj1307]

7 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

???

Works on real hardware….

 

You're wrong, it doesn't work.
You asked me via PM and started a special thread to find out why the game doesn't work on DragonFly.
You got a specific answer with an indication of where you are making a mistake:

 

And what are you doing next? NOTHING, you release another version of the game with the same problem and claim that everyone is wrong and only you are right.
I'm sorry, but even a 10-year-old can learn from and correct his mistakes, so it's not a matter of age but ignorance and self-righteousness.

 

 

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

8 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

Another user had the right approach by reporting and getting him blocked from their thread. If everyone did the same he would be blocked from all their threads and left to his own.

While it worked in that specific instance, hitting the report button does not guarantee that someone will be censured and / or blocked from participating in a thread.  All reports are subject to review, and thus interpretation to determine the best course of action based on the circumstances at hand.  IMHO, it's frankly better that it works this way because it's a safeguard against people piling on to an individual and attempting to shut them down for no very good reason.

 

One item related to the above: I can't recall anyone stating a desire for him to be banned, or blocked from participating in particular threads.  Frustrations were voiced, yes, but what appeared to be wanted was for him to continue participating in ways that weren't causing friction.  This is why people likely worked with him regarding his behaviour rather than reporting posts - and, IIRC, at least one moderator did as well.

8 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

From there you hit ignore and never hear from him again.

Speaking from experience in that regard: even after placing him on ignore, expect to be bombarded with attempts at sending PMs and public mentions tagging your username asking why you're not paying attention to him any longer.  Had a couple of people bring that one to my notice, and, well, continued on with ignoring him.  But he'll try.

8 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

Who actually knows what the kids issues are, he could have mental health issues that causes his ADHD like behavior.

This is absolutely correct: he may.  However - and I say this as someone who at times works with a segment of the population in which a number of mental illnesses including ADHD are common - even if this were true, it's not an excuse for the behaviour we've seen.  Giving someone an inch because of <insert condition here> will, in a large number of cases, result in them taking a mile.  That doesn't mean that accommodations shouldn't be made, but rather that boundaries need to continue to be enforced along with the accommodations.

8 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

Personally i just can't argue with a 14 year old kid i have never met with whatever issues he may have. Pleasantly or not, although i seem to be the only one around here with that outlook.

Bear in mind that the only reason we know his age is because he played the, "I'm only 14!" card after being called out on his behaviour.  It was an attempt at justifying his actions, and he knew full well that this is what it was.

[+Karl G]

7 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

Another user had the right approach by reporting and getting him blocked from their thread. If everyone did the same he would be blocked from all their threads and left to his own. From there you hit ignore and never hear from him again. This is what im trying to explain. It's really easy to deal with these issues in life. Who actually knows what the kids issues are, he could have mental health issues that causes his ADHD like behavior. Personally i just can't argue with a 14 year old kid i have never met with whatever issues he may have. Pleasantly or not, although i seem to be the only one around here with that outlook.

For me at least, the point wasn't to argue with him, but to hopefully give him some tips to be able to better fit into the community. If it were an adult, I would have reached the limit of my patience a lot sooner, and just reported and/or blocked a lot sooner. It's cool that someone so young has shown an interest in developing for vintage consoles, and I had hoped that he would eventually find his place here in a way that doesn't ruin the forum experience for other users.

[+TwentySixHundred]

That's all fair enough, i get it and yes he had been annoying with 50 posts a day along with random conversations not related to the topic whatsoever. I had even mentioned something to him myself, then stood back after finding out he is 14. Personally the fact he is supposedly only 14 (could be younger or older who knows) says to me he would've been lucky to have hair on his nuts 12 months ago. So really he has many years of learning and essentially still a child. Moderation could simmer him down or even just restrict his post abilities to set number a day if he continued. Anyway/

[Ecernosoft]

17 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

I disagree.  He has used that exact rationale ("I'm only 14!") to justify his behaviour after many of us have repeatedly attempted to work with him on it.  None of those attempts seem to have resulted in a change for the better.

 

Whether he stays or not is up to him; nobody controls what he does in that regard.  If he stays, however, he will have to stop making excuses for the things that he does rather than correcting his behaviour when called out on it.

 

In another two years, he'll be eligible to drive a car.  Would "I'm only 16!" be a reasonable excuse for why he ran over the elderly woman crossing the street?

Hey. I tried to apologize dude!

 

[Ecernosoft]

1 hour ago, TwentySixHundred said:

That's all fair enough, i get it and yes he had been annoying with 50 posts a day along with random conversations not related to the topic whatsoever. I had even mentioned something to him myself, then stood back after finding out he is 14. Personally the fact he is supposedly only 14 (could be younger or older who knows) says to me he would've been lucky to have hair on his nuts 12 months ago. So really he has many years of learning and essentially still a child. Moderation could simmer him down or even just restrict his post abilities to set number a day if he continued. Anyway/

Thank you.

 

Edit: I am in school- so if I don’t respond, that’s why. I work very hard on my games and Monday was just Monday. I’m not usually like that. Please, @x=usr(1536) accept my apology and move on with life. This is a programming forum. I have feelings too. Please,  know I am not going after you or anyone. Ok?

 

I’ve gotten very hurt from all the negativity and not breing able to apologize. I’m trying to fix this. Ok? And also, I’m in school. I go through a lot each day. I’m still learning the rules of the internet. I’m going to make mistakes. 
 

so, please, forgive me @x=usr(1536)

Edited November 15, 2022 by Ecernosoft

[Ecernosoft]

1 hour ago, Karl G said:

For me at least, the point wasn't to argue with him, but to hopefully give him some tips to be able to better fit into the community. If it were an adult, I would have reached the limit of my patience a lot sooner, and just reported and/or blocked a lot sooner. It's cool that someone so young has shown an interest in developing for vintage consoles, and I had hoped that he would eventually find his place here in a way that doesn't ruin the forum experience for other users.

I am not trying to ruin the experience, ok? I’m just a child remember- I’m sorry.

 

I will respond no more on this thread until things call down. Good luck.

[+5-11under]

My 2 cents:

 

1. Feel free to stay. We all like classic video games, so where else would anyone want to be.

2. Listen (read) more than you say (type/post).

3. Think twice before hitting the "Submit Reply" button. Not everything needs a reply.

4. Think a third time before submitting posts into other people's threads - don't derail their threads.

5. Treat people like they're real people. That art can easily be lost when they're not right in front of you, for instance online or when driving a car.

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

I'm unblocking Ecernosoft long enough to reply to two of his posts; the things I have to say are ones that I want the entire forum to be able to read.

3 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

Hey. I tried to apologize dude!

Apologising misses the point, which is to not engage in the behaviour in the first place.  More:

3 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

Edit: I am in school- so if I don’t respond, that’s why. I work very hard on my games and Monday was just Monday.

We all have bad days.  That does not give you carte blanche to take it out on others, particularly people who are giving you their time and effort out of their own kindness.  Neither you nor anyone else is entitled to receive that assistance, and no-one is obligated to provide it.  That help is something that can be revoked at any time.  Keep that in mind.

3 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

I’m not usually like that.

Which is true, but that tantrum was the last straw for me.  You have been unwilling to both heed and also act on any advice given to you regarding the behaviours that cause friction, and have even gone so far as to say (though not verbatim) that you're not going to make an effort to change them.  It's unreasonable to expect anyone to just sit there and put up with it.  That is what caused the ignore switch to be flipped on in your direction.

3 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

Please, @x=usr(1536) accept my apology and move on with life.

Hold it.  You're telling me to "move on with life?" You are in no position to dictate what I or anyone else does.

 

As for an apology: valid ones do not have conditions, demands, or suggestions attached to them.  I cannot accept this one because of that.  You are welcome to try again. 

3 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

This is a programming forum. I have feelings too.

Yes, you do.  We all do.  And you are not guaranteed happiness any more than the rest of us are.

 

Understand that my goal here is not to make you feel terrible: if it were, I'd be a real piece of shit for a number of reasons.  My goal here is to get you to understand how what you do affects those around you and, in turn, affects the reception that you receive.  In other words, and as I've said to you before, giving you the necessary survival skills for fitting in around here.

3 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

Please,  know I am not going after you or anyone. Ok?

At no time have I had the perception that you were going after myself or anyone else.  If you had been (and I say this based on historical precedent), the response you would have received would have been several orders of magnitude greater from a number of the people that were lashed out at.

 

Again: I am not angry at or offended by what you may have said.  However, I am fed up to the back teeth with how you've been conducting yourself around here, and decided to take steps to reduce my contact with you to practically nil.  That's it.

3 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

I’ve gotten very hurt from all the negativity and not breing able to apologize. I’m trying to fix this. Ok?

Prove to us by your actions that it is fixed.

3 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

And also, I’m in school. I go through a lot each day. I’m still learning the rules of the internet. I’m going to make mistakes.

We all make mistakes, myself included.  Last night, I botched modifications I was making to a UAV that I was installing, and likely killed it.  Last week, I scheduled two people to be on a shift at the same time when only one was needed.  A few days before that, I watched my last 10mm deep well 1/4-inch socket roll into a storm drain and disappear into two feet of mud after I dropped it.  And I've said and done things in my life that have made people unhappy, angry, or disappointed with me.  We all have.  But none of those things give me or anyone else the right to take them out on another.

3 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

so, please, forgive me @x=usr(1536)

For the moment, I am going to put the ignore back in place.  This does not mean that I am unwilling to accept an apology from you, but due to the previous one having had terms and conditions attached to it, I feel that I need to see improvement before I can formally accept one.

 

Also, please read the following response to @5-11under's post below.  I'm keeping all of the points he made intact despite only addressing one of them because they are all valid.

2 hours ago, 5-11under said:

1. Feel free to stay. We all like classic video games, so where else would anyone want to be.

2. Listen (read) more than you say (type/post).

3. Think twice before hitting the "Submit Reply" button. Not everything needs a reply.

Related to number 3. above: USE THE LIKE BUTTON.  I have no idea what quantity of your posts could be more appropriately addressed by using that to give someone a quick acknowledgement of what they have said, but doing so would seriously cut down on the aggravation that unnecessary two-word reply posts cause everyone involved - yourself included when you get to hear yet another reminder to stop doing that again.

 

2 hours ago, 5-11under said:

4. Think a third time before submitting posts into other people's threads - don't derail their threads.

5. Treat people like they're real people. That art can easily be lost when they're not right in front of you, for instance online or when driving a car.

 

And, finally: if I weren't willing to put in the time and effort it took to write all of this, you would have actually been written off.  That hasn't happened yet.  Do what you need to do to put things right (and keep them that way) and we can see where things stand later.

[Ecernosoft]

 

I understand.

thank you for posting, and I hear you. Ok?

 

I’ve learned my lesson.

 

@x=usr(1536), I hope you read this. I apologize for carrying this dumb discussion.

 

[+TwentySixHundred]

15 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

I’m just a child remember

Mate really? I put my neck out giving the benefit of the doubt thinking you didn't know any better... Playing the card yourself demonstrates you know your actions full well. I retract my statements.

 

PS. No need to apologize

[ZippyRedPlumber]

I took a break from the forums and not only that, I was going to present a fully functional smooth platforming sample for 7800Basic. That didn't happen because you butting in and saying irrelevantly stupid stuff! Oh, and for the love of god, please learn self control when you post. JEEZ!

Edited November 16, 2022 by ZippyRedPlumber

[Silver Back]

There's a lot here to take in and hopefully he will choose to read through the replies and understand the consequences of his actions. But it's a lot to take in and following "apologies" with "I'm sorry, OK " just reminds me of dealing with my own 15 year old son.

 

I thought that following his games development would be interesting in seeing how somebody improves as they grow, mature and learn over the years.  I thought it would be cool to see him realize new programming methods, realize that abandoning games or leaving incomplete games behind for new "sequels" made little sense when the goal is to make complete, playable games to put out to the world. I was looking forward to seeing a completed "Conner Time" game that didn't have a myriad of graphical and gameplay glitches make it to cartridge and digital download.  With the focus being a fun and tightly programmed experience rather than "minus worlds, DVD expansions and lock on carts." 

 

The members of this forum reached a point where the issues had to be addressed. But it's not too late. Decide if programming for these consoles is something you want to take seriously and if so pursue it. Stop spamming, work hard and come back with something that shows growth. Slowly over time you can show that your not here to spam and make excuses.  And then some of these relationships can be salvaged. And be mature enough to know that some can not.

 

What happens next, as before, is up to you. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Silver Back

[RevEng]

11 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

Mate really? I put my neck out giving the benefit of the doubt thinking you didn't know any better... Playing the card yourself demonstrates you know your actions full well. I retract my statements.

It is calculated, and something I've never heard a single teenager actually say about themselves.

[The Usotsuki]

Look, I can be a hell of a n00b sometimes (I've got mental problems). The difference is I learn from my mistakes.

 

Of course, you can say, "well, uso's 42, that's different" - I'm really not all that different from how I was at your age.

[+TwentySixHundred]

4 hours ago, RevEng said:

It is calculated, and something I've never heard a single teenager actually say about themselves.

Instantly gave me flashbacks of the early internet days. Where users would blow out then return the next day saying "sorry my little brother got onto my computer yesterday, it wasn't me". Like anyone would actually believe their story...

[Jaden (JRH)]

...So, popcorn anyone? 🍿