aotta Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 @Tissemon this is the 5-11under's version thread, we should talk about the "original" RTO in its 3ad. Anyway, since 5-11under has found some issue too in beta testing, i could say that there's no perfect way to computer the delay, and a lot of things may interfere (i.e. the compilation option - i used "faster" and not "fastest" or the speed of the Teensy's CPU - i left it to its default), but the value you used for Dracula seems too low in my opinion. Can you test your Inty with original cartridge? one of my friends had issue with Dracula (dark video and blurred portions of the screen) due to grounding external video pin missing, that i hadn't since i use an RGB output and not the RF. In version 1.1 the ext-video should be solved, but maybe it's related to your issue too. RTO is an "active" cart, differently to the original Roms, so grounding and power are more critical and it's not easy to find what's wrong when a game shows glitches. But i tend to exclude it's something wrong in your Intellivision's IC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tissemon Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 4 hours ago, aotta said: @Tissemon this is the 5-11under's version thread, we should talk about the "original" RTO in its 3ad. Anyway, since 5-11under has found some issue too in beta testing, i could say that there's no perfect way to computer the delay, and a lot of things may interfere (i.e. the compilation option - i used "faster" and not "fastest" or the speed of the Teensy's CPU - i left it to its default), but the value you used for Dracula seems too low in my opinion. Can you test your Inty with original cartridge? one of my friends had issue with Dracula (dark video and blurred portions of the screen) due to grounding external video pin missing, that i hadn't since i use an RGB output and not the RF. In version 1.1 the ext-video should be solved, but maybe it's related to your issue too. RTO is an "active" cart, differently to the original Roms, so grounding and power are more critical and it's not easy to find what's wrong when a game shows glitches. But i tend to exclude it's something wrong in your Intellivision's IC! Oh, yeah, sorry for posting in the wrong thread. But this issue might be in 5-11s version as well, so I hope it's ok with him. I'll test some more and continue with my findings in the other RTO-thread. Just to clarify: I've got a PAL Intellivision, model 1 that I've removed the RF-unit on and I'm using a composite mod instead. It's not a perfect mod - on my CRT it shows gray color instead of white, but on my digital panel it gets correct but somewhat washed out colors, so I've got to work a little on that mod as well later on 🙂 But I don't think the mod is the problem - it might drain a bit more electricity than the RF unit, but that shouldn't make very much of a difference. I havn't got the original cart for Dracula, so I can't test that. But the glitches that I'm talking about are not just graphical - with the original timings on the RTO the Dracula sprite would sometimes randomly get really big, and when I transform to bat-form it gets normal for a while again. Sometimes I get teleported to somewhere else on the screen. Sometimes the Dracula-sprite transforms to something that looks like a head on a stick. The policeman won't throw stakes at me and other weird stuff like that. All those bugs disappeared when I used the lower values on the timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aotta Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, Tissemon said: But the glitches that I'm talking about are not just graphical - with the original timings on the RTO the Dracula sprite would sometimes randomly get really big, and when I transform to bat-form it gets normal for a while again. Sometimes I get teleported to somewhere else on the screen. Sometimes the Dracula-sprite transforms to something that looks like a head on a stick. The policeman won't throw stakes at me and other weird stuff like that. All those bugs disappeared when I used the lower values on the timing. Yes these errors appear to be caused by a ROM read error so, definitely, a timing issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, Tissemon said: Oh, yeah, sorry for posting in the wrong thread. But this issue might be in 5-11s version as well, so I hope it's ok with him. I'll test some more and continue with my findings in the other RTO-thread. Not a problem at all! The feedback is appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tissemon Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 On 6/2/2023 at 7:08 PM, 5-11under said: Not a problem at all! The feedback is appreciated! Great! Meybe you and your testers can help each other out. I've got three "problematic" ROM's that I'm testing with: Dracula, Antarctic Tales and the Bad Apple demo (antarctic tales and bad apple are available as free downloads here on AtariAge) I've tried to experiment with a lot och timing-values and here are my rough findings: delRD=422 + delWR=480 -> Dracula works fine, Antarctic Tales does not work so good. delRD=402 + delWR=466 -> Dracula still fine, Antarctic tales quite good! delRD=382 + delWR=440 -> Won’t boot at all 392/456 -> bit more glitches 400/456 almost perfect 400/450 same 400/440 same or worse 400/465 worse 398/456 worse than 400/465 406/456 worse than 400/465 402/456 near perfect 404/456 near perfect. Maybe a bit worse than before 403/456 near perfect, bit better than last 403/450 near perfect, bit slow sound in beginning 403/453 same 404/455 best one yet! 405/455 same 405/456 worse 405/454 worse still 406/455 best yet! 407/455 same 408/455 best yet! Almost no glitches 409/455 Better! Almost none! 410/455 worse 410/456 worse 409/456 better than last, but really bad still 409/454 better than last, but not best. 409/467 worse Best one = 409/455 - tried some other games with this setting and they all worked great. And then I tried the Bad Apple demo - where the sound was off. So back to square one on finding a value that works with everything, I guess 😞 It seems that perhaps the difference between delRD and delWR is more important than the actual values on them? Is it just my Intellivision that are having these problems or is any one else having problems with these roms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aotta Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 Nor me neither the dozen of italian guys that made a batch of RTO carts have had issue with that roms (and bad apple was one of the most tested by me, since i worked a lot for manage his huge banking switch). And we used the default timing, so it seems strange to me the great difference with your tests. Could you test your cart with different console? Which 74245 logic IC did you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tissemon Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 I got 74LVC245 from AliExpress and made 4 RTO carts. They all behaved the exactly the same on my Intellivision so I think they are all good. Havn’t got another unit to test with, unfortunately. I would like to clarify that all roms that I’ve tried boots up with the default settings (482/540) and only a few original games had glitches with those timings (Dracula and micro surgeon were the only ones I tried that crashed after a while). Bad Apple ran perfectly with 482/540. But Antarctic Tales seems really picky with the timings. Please try it and see if it works for you all. I got the bin+cfg from here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aotta Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Tissemon said: But Antarctic Tales seems really picky with the timings. Please try it and see if it works for you all. I got the bin+cfg from here: Antartic Tales use ECS commands (you can check it reading the ECS section in its config files), so it works with ECS module, you must test the RTO with ECS harwdare. i'm pretty sure it's not a timing issue! I have my ECS in its box, may be i'll check Antartic Tales with it in next days if i'll find time Edited June 5, 2023 by aotta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmadruga Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 Antarctic Tales does not use nor require an ECS. The game code maps out the ECS rom. The "ecs=1" entry inside the .cfg file does not mean an ECS is required. You can try running it on jzintv with the -s0 parameter to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aotta Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, cmadruga said: Antarctic Tales does not use nor requires an ECS. The game code maps out the ECS rom. The "ecs=1" entry inside the .cfg file does not mean an ECS is required. You can try running it on jzintv with the -s0 parameter to confirm. Thank you for clarifying it, i red in the thread mentioned on your game that it work on jzintv "with ECS on", but didn't tested myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aotta Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 I can confirm that Antartic Tales works fine without ECS... and with RTO cart with default timing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tissemon Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 42 minutes ago, aotta said: I can confirm that Antartic Tales works fine without ECS... and with RTO cart with default timing: Could you complete a whole level without glitches? I get random stuff like these arrows with all settings I’ve tried. IMG_4580.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aotta Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, Tissemon said: Could you complete a whole level without glitches? I get random stuff like these arrows with all settings I’ve tried. IMG_4580.mov Yes, i'm an engineer, not a player, but i completed a couple of mission wihout any artifacts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tissemon Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 12 hours ago, aotta said: Yes, i'm an engineer, not a player, but i completed a couple of mission wihout any artifacts! Thank you for testing! Then it's probably just my unit that is a bit weird. I'm starting to suspect that one or both of the crystals on my Intellivision has gone a bit off - that might explain why I get gray color instead of white on my CRT as well... I'll see if I can find new ones, and try swapping them out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted June 20, 2023 Author Share Posted June 20, 2023 Update: It wasn't in my plan to have to update the bus timing for NTSC consoles, but it looks like that's going to be required before this is ready for proper "production". My old Model I died a few weeks ago (will try to repair at some point). I've got another one on the way, which hopefully works. Then I'll be able to resume testing. Hopefully I'll be able to find settings that work well for the different models. It's easy enough for a user to "upload" a new file for the Teensy inside the cartridge, but it'd be much better if that wasn't required. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyChris Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Does the cartridge retain the last game in memory when powered off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, CrazyChris said: Does the cartridge retain the last game in memory when powered off? It does not... but things like that shouldn't be too difficult for someone to add. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utri007 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 On 2/13/2023 at 10:36 PM, 5-11under said: That is the plan. Thanks! Would you have one RTO for me? I would happy to buy one. I don't need a case as I have 3D printer myself. I'll PM to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tissemon Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) On 6/20/2023 at 11:29 PM, 5-11under said: Update: It wasn't in my plan to have to update the bus timing for NTSC consoles, but it looks like that's going to be required before this is ready for proper "production". My old Model I died a few weeks ago (will try to repair at some point). I've got another one on the way, which hopefully works. Then I'll be able to resume testing. Hopefully I'll be able to find settings that work well for the different models. It's easy enough for a user to "upload" a new file for the Teensy inside the cartridge, but it'd be much better if that wasn't required. I think the best way is to read some optional variables from a file named something like config.cfg or options.txt from the root of the SD-card. Shouldn’t be too hard to add, code-wise. Edited June 26, 2023 by Tissemon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 5 hours ago, Tissemon said: I think the best way is to read some optional variables from a file named something like config.cfg or options.txt from the root of the SD-card. Shouldn’t be too hard to add, code-wise. Thanks! That's a great idea. That would be a great solution to hopefully narrow down the actual timing required for various console models, etc. I can add it so that the user could select a) the default timing file, or b) game-specific timing file, or c) alternate timing file, or perhaps even an option to change the numbers on the fly. Something like that... I'll keep thinking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Speaking of file names.. is it possible to name a ROM autostart.rom or something and automatically run it on boot? Would be great for prototypes or expos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, Gemintronic said: Speaking of file names.. is it possible to name a ROM autostart.rom or something and automatically run it on boot? Would be great for prototypes or expos. Likely that would be possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 On 6/22/2023 at 5:18 PM, utri007 said: Would you have one RTO for me? I would happy to buy one. I don't need a case as I have 3D printer myself. I'll PM to you. This version uses a Coleco shell (Coleco made a few games for the Intellivision), as shown here: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/348005-rto-my-production-take-on-the-multicart/?do=findComment&comment=5251560 It's not ready for sale yet, but thanks to the timing file idea from Tissemon, it's a step closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 hour ago, 5-11under said: This version uses a Coleco shell (Coleco made a few games for the Intellivision), as shown here: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/348005-rto-my-production-take-on-the-multicart/?do=findComment&comment=5251560 It's not ready for sale yet, but thanks to the timing file idea from Tissemon, it's a step closer. I'd buy one without a case if shells ever become annoying to source. Got several Intellivisions and Aquarius's? Aquiari? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alevin16 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 I would love one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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