Atari VCS 2

[TrekMD]

Thanks for posting that page with the "Daptors" @sramirez2008

[+sramirez2008]

17 minutes ago, TrekMD said:

Thanks for posting that page with the "Daptors" @sramirez2008

Your welcome. Their adaptors work well. I’ve been using them for several years now.

[Carl Gundel]

On 8/23/2023 at 10:03 AM, zzip said:

At first my reaction was "wow, it can play 7800 games!   My OG 2600 (which I still have) can't do that!".    Then I remembered that I don't actually own any 7800 carts, just the digital purchases from the VCS store and various homebrew roms people posted here.

 

Plus my 2600 carts are in storage, I've only played ROMs under emulation since like '95 and have no reason to go back.   My VCS meets my emulation needs fine, it can play most of the games the 2600+ can't,   so I'll just stick with that and skip the 2600+

My reaction to the 2600+ announcement was to watch a few videos with people's speculations, and then I went to the Atari web site and ordered a VCS 800 instead when I saw that the price is currently $224.99 for the bundle.

[joeatari1]

1 hour ago, Carl Gundel said:

My reaction to the 2600+ announcement was to watch a few videos with people's speculations, and then I went to the Atari web site and ordered a VCS 800 instead when I saw that the price is currently $224.99 for the bundle.

Welcome.  Get ready for updates though.  It will take you a bit to get the VCS updated to current specs but fear not, there are many resources both here and on the VCS Discord server to help you out.  https://discord.gg/atarivcs

[JPF997]

On 7/17/2023 at 2:51 AM, bluenomadgaming said:

If Atari gets a new system in 2026 or later to follow the VCS 800, would you rather then do the VCS with new numbers or go back to the cat naming system?   🐱 

 

 

Quite frankly whether Atari continues to use numbers or goes back to cat's is inconsequential, what actually matters is that they finally start shipping to places outside the US.

[Wildstar]

If there were to be a VCS2..... If we had a edge slot that was signal and electrically compatible to USB-C but wider so where we can put inside an SD into a "cartridge" that plugs into this slot. The "cartridge could be maybe a little larger than a CF. Maybe closer to a 3.5" floppy disk but a little thicker... for a nice game label. If we do it right, we can set it to possibly autorun like autoplay. SDs and microSD may be the underlying tech with write protect switch. They are a little small for putting on a game label. You can easily have games made running directly from the SD or install or something and have space on the "cart" for saves.

 

You could have high performant SDs but they are pricier but may be worth it in releases with a game on it. Especially with UHS-III (not a typo) spec. They would be needing USB-C speed. This with Tilt Five also using USB-C needs good motherboard bus bandwidth and maybe a little more performant CPU & GPU/video card. Just something to look for in the next gen hardware. The cart's onboard IC for handling the SD slot should be supportive of UHS-III speed SD cards.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Wildstar

[Zoyx]

48 minutes ago, Wildstar said:

If there were to be a VCS2..... If we had a edge slot that was signal and electrically compatible to USB-C but wider so where we can put inside an SD into a "cartridge" that plugs into this slot. The "cartridge could be maybe a little larger than a CF. Maybe closer to a 3.5" floppy disk but a little thicker... for a nice game label. If we do it right, we can set it to possibly autorun like autoplay. SDs and microSD may be the underlying tech with write protect switch. They are a little small for putting on a game label. You can easily have games made running directly from the SD or install or something and have space on the "cart" for saves.

 

You could have high performant SDs but they are pricier but may be worth it in releases with a game on it. Especially with UHS-III (not a typo) spec. They would be needing USB-C speed. This with Tilt Five also using USB-C needs good motherboard bus bandwidth and maybe a little more performant CPU & GPU/video card. Just something to look for in the next gen hardware. The cart's onboard IC for handling the SD slot should be supportive of UHS-III speed SD cards.

Internal storage would be cheaper and easier to implement.

[Wildstar]

6 hours ago, Zoyx said:

Internal storage would be cheaper and easier to implement.

SD card reader would work and looking at SD, a game label could work on that. MicroSD is too small. SD cards are slightly larger

than the Nintendo Game Cards for Switch. Tiny but not too small to possibly read. I can use UHS-I V30(minimum speed) and

UHS-II and UHS-III. UHS-II would allow us to be faster than mechanical HD speed. UHS-III even faster. However, price point

matters, too. Performance matters if you are talking running game from the memory card.

 

Existing USB slot will allow for this on existing model. A next model could have faster usb-c / usb 4.0 spec ports.

 

If they include an internal SD card reader, it would be good if it supports UHS-II and when available III. I can currently get UHS-II

compatible card readers for a decent price without volume discount.

 

Example: 

 

This was done for a steam deck.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Wildstar

[Wildstar]

Professional quality results is possible. Surpassing my initial feeling of professional quality

game labels on SD size media and Nintendo did fine on a slightly smaller footprint area

game card.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Wildstar

[Zoyx]

11 hours ago, Wildstar said:

Professional quality results is possible. Surpassing my initial feeling of professional quality

game labels on SD size media and Nintendo did fine on a slightly smaller footprint area

game card.

Install 1 to 2 TB SSD inside the console and call it good.

[Wildstar]

1 minute ago, Zoyx said:

Install 1 to 2 TB SSD inside the console and call it good.

True but if I deliver a game in physical media format for VCS... I was merely pointing to an option like using a high speed SD card. Of course, the internal SSDs are something end users can do. Of course, then you're talking online game store site to pay and download game.

 

[Zoyx]

Yeah, online store. That's how the current VCS works. Why would they change for the VCS 2?

[zzip]

19 hours ago, Wildstar said:

If there were to be a VCS2..... If we had a edge slot that was signal and electrically compatible to USB-C but wider so where we can put inside an SD into a "cartridge" that plugs into this slot. The "cartridge could be maybe a little larger than a CF. Maybe closer to a 3.5" floppy disk but a little thicker... for a nice game label. If we do it right, we can set it to possibly autorun like autoplay. SDs and microSD may be the underlying tech with write protect switch. They are a little small for putting on a game label. You can easily have games made running directly from the SD or install or something and have space on the "cart" for saves.

 

You could have high performant SDs but they are pricier but may be worth it in releases with a game on it. Especially with UHS-III (not a typo) spec. They would be needing USB-C speed. This with Tilt Five also using USB-C needs good motherboard bus bandwidth and maybe a little more performant CPU & GPU/video card. Just something to look for in the next gen hardware. The cart's onboard IC for handling the SD slot should be supportive of UHS-III speed SD cards.

The last thing the VCS needs is a new proprietary cart format.   If you really want to distribute games on physical media-  USB stick is the best bet,  but readers for SD cards and DVD-ROMs are cheap and could be used as well.   I don't think super high performance is necessary since VCS games aren't that massive and you'd probably want to install them anyway rather than run them straight from the media.

[Wildstar]

4 hours ago, zzip said:

The last thing the VCS needs is a new proprietary cart format.   If you really want to distribute games on physical media-  USB stick is the best bet,  but readers for SD cards and DVD-ROMs are cheap and could be used as well.   I don't think super high performance is necessary since VCS games aren't that massive and you'd probably want to install them anyway rather than run them straight from the media.

Right, especially 2d games and small games. Larger games should have reasonable performance and can be obtained at reasonable prices. I can provide (optional) decent performing UHS-II speed capable SD card reader for basic convenience. However, people can buy high speed UHS-II card readers for around $20-30. If Atari did that with the Atari brand, people will buy them. In any case, it would make easy physical media delivery. People could install or run them straight from the media. Either way, physical copy of the game. Online F2P MMOs games would likely be a download and install client.

 

Of course the conversation serves me in considering methods of delivering content for VCS.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Wildstar

[+Sauron]

Why bother discussing physical media? In case some of you haven't realized, fast broadband access is pretty ubiquitous now. Besides, if you're trying to make a game that rivals AAA games on XBox and PS5 in size, then the VCS is probably not your target platform.

 

[Matt_B]

Physical media is one of those weird fetish things. 🙂

 

I'd think that if you're after modern Atari games in cartridge format, you can just get them on the Switch. Most have been released that way, albeit usually only in limited runs.

[Zoyx]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

Why bother discussing physical media? In case some of you haven't realized, fast broadband access is pretty ubiquitous now. Besides, if you're trying to make a game that rivals AAA games on XBox and PS5 in size, then the VCS is probably not your target platform.

 

Yup.

CyberPunk 2077:  67.8 GB

Caverns of Mars: Recharged: 615 MB

 

The VCS only came with 32 GB of internal storage, so small games.

 

I would like to see a new Atari with the latest AMD APU, but that market is saturated.

[Wildstar]

6 hours ago, Zoyx said:

Yeah, online store. That's how the current VCS works. Why would they change for the VCS 2?

It doesn't eliminate that but expand options. Getting games into physical stores as well. Increasing visibility.

Perhaps people do want a physical copy of the game. As a matter of fact, VCS already may support SDs because

it is already supported by Linux, the core of the AtariOS. So it's already there.  

[Wildstar]

6 hours ago, zzip said:

The last thing the VCS needs is a new proprietary cart format.   If you really want to distribute games on physical media-  USB stick is the best bet,  but readers for SD cards and DVD-ROMs are cheap and could be used as well.   I don't think super high performance is necessary since VCS games aren't that massive and you'd probably want to install them anyway rather than run them straight from the media.

Perhaps don't need a proprietary cartridge format. That's fine. Providing SD card readers is just a matter of convenience but of course

a good card reader that can handle UHS-II isn't that expensive. Some people may have an SD card reader but it's slow and you'll really

will tell that in performance. So the faster ones would just improve overall user experience. Higher speed UHS-II cards aren't necessarily

expensive. They just average a little more in cost than a card that isn't even up to UHS-I speed like the cheaper class 3-10 cards that 

may be up to v10 or not at all. That would be up to devs like myself to decide.

[Wildstar]

17 minutes ago, Zoyx said:

Yup.

CyberPunk 2077:  67.8 GB

Caverns of Mars: Recharged: 615 MB

 

The VCS only came with 32 GB of internal storage, so small games.

 

I would like to see a new Atari with the latest AMD APU, but that market is saturated.

If all that Atari is is recycling 30-50 year old games, it might have problem in sustaining itself as a business. There has to be new stuff as well.

[Wildstar]

4 hours ago, Sauron said:

Why bother discussing physical media? In case some of you haven't realized, fast broadband access is pretty ubiquitous now. Besides, if you're trying to make a game that rivals AAA games on XBox and PS5 in size, then the VCS is probably not your target platform.

 

Alright, how much would VCS owners pay for games? Does size in megabytes or gigabytes matter to you? I would expect 3d games to be inherently larger in terms of bytes compared to a 2d game of likeness like a 3d pacman would be taking more hard drive space than a 2d pacman... for obvious reasons. However, a 3d game using say... Godot... can vary in size. Presuming, maybe a few gigs unless one goes to the additional effort to make large game worlds. Large world 2d games will likely take much less GBs than the 3d games of same or similar represented game world size. 

 

It's unclear what the size of a game I'm making that supports Tilt Five but presumably it would work fine on VCS's hw. It is unlikely based on the game it is based on but expanded on, to be super huge. 

 

Huge game worlds, I can more easily do in 2d because of the difference in making 2d graphics compared to 3d modeling, rigging, and animation. If I have to make a game solo, or without a 50-150 person project team, I can do large world 2d game by myself or with a smaller project team size...much easier even with today's screen resolution. 

 

From that perspective, the work put into the game would reflect the price. 

[Wildstar]

What kind of new 2d or 3d game made supporting VCS would you like to see made?

 

Initially, for 3d games. I am looking at some form of 3d games that are suited around a top-down-ish view. They would more easily translate to 3d and suit the play style intended for Tilt Five like board games. This can work fine on VCS. 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Wildstar

[roots.genoa]

7 hours ago, Matt_B said:

I'd think that if you're after modern Atari games in cartridge format, you can just get them on the Switch. Most have been released that way, albeit usually only in limited runs.

Yes, except it seems a lot of Atari hardcore fans still hate Nintendo for having made people forget about the first two generations of consoles. So they won't buy a Switch. Why do you think people got a VCS (or pre-ordered an Amico) in the first place? 😉

[zzip]

13 hours ago, Wildstar said:

It doesn't eliminate that but expand options. Getting games into physical stores as well. Increasing visibility.

They should have the VCS hardware in physical stores first.   I think the only retailer that ever put them on the shelves was Microcenter.   For Best Buy and Gamestop, they were online orders only.

 

13 hours ago, Wildstar said:

VCS already may support SDs because

it is already supported by Linux, the core of the AtariOS. So it's already there.  

Yes the Linux OS will recognize virtually any flash media format out of the box, also CD/DVD and even floppy.     But the Atari OS User Interface would have to support it as well,  I believe it already can read SD cards and use them as extended storage.   But you would need a way to register the game in the Atari User interface.   

 

9 hours ago, Wildstar said:

Alright, how much would VCS owners pay for games? Does size in megabytes or gigabytes matter to you? I would expect 3d games to be inherently larger in terms of bytes compared to a 2d game of likeness like a 3d pacman would be taking more hard drive space than a 2d pacman... for obvious reasons. However, a 3d game using say... Godot

The types of games in the Atari store vary wildly from 2600 games to 3D efforts like "BPM Boy".   Price varies quite a bit too, and size.   So I don't think there's a right answer to this.    Internal storage can be extended.

 

[Wildstar]

56 minutes ago, zzip said:

They should have the VCS hardware in physical stores first.   I think the only retailer that ever put them on the shelves was Microcenter.   For Best Buy and Gamestop, they were online orders only.

 

Yes the Linux OS will recognize virtually any flash media format out of the box, also CD/DVD and even floppy.     But the Atari OS User Interface would have to support it as well,  I believe it already can read SD cards and use them as extended storage.   But you would need a way to register the game in the Atari User interface.   

 

The types of games in the Atari store vary wildly from 2600 games to 3D efforts like "BPM Boy".   Price varies quite a bit too, and size.   So I don't think there's a right answer to this.    Internal storage can be extended.

 

The last part isn't something one person can answer themselves.

 

As for there is that PC mode thing. There should be a way for dealing with Atari OS UI. They are probably still running the same underlying OS UI system as the distro they are using at the core.

 

Regarding, they should have the VCS hardware in physical stores first, I would agree in an ideal world but it doesn't necessarily have to but in the larger stores like walmart, and others like you said, I think it makes sense. You saw Xbox and others consoles as well as games for them

Edited September 19, 2023 by Wildstar