The Atari 2600+ is live for preorders!

[RockLobster]

1 minute ago, leech said:

I am sort of shocked that at this point someone hasn't attempted to make a line of cart adapters for the MiSTer.

Me too.  In the forums/discord where many of the core devs hang out, the topic of a cartridge dumper comes up every once in a while.   But then you run into a lot of what people in this thread are unhappy about with the 2600+.   That is, just being able to dump the ROMs may sound cool but most people wouldn't bite unless it also supported specialty cartridges.   Which, while will increase the population of interested buyers, it will dramatically increase production costs and engineering challenges since you'll not be able to just dump passive storage content for cartridges with active components, RAM, etc. 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

For the ones interested, I have created a thread about how a better cart dumper might work. 

 

 

[leech]

1 hour ago, RockLobster said:

Me too.  In the forums/discord where many of the core devs hang out, the topic of a cartridge dumper comes up every once in a while.   But then you run into a lot of what people in this thread are unhappy about with the 2600+.   That is, just being able to dump the ROMs may sound cool but most people wouldn't bite unless it also supported specialty cartridges.   Which, while will increase the population of interested buyers, it will dramatically increase production costs and engineering challenges since you'll not be able to just dump passive storage content for cartridges with active components, RAM, etc. 

One would think if the FPGA and the SNAC stuff would allow a pure 2600/7800 implementation with all of the right lines in place to read the custom hardware.  Then again I am not a hardware engineer...

[Emehr]

5 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

But how pissed would you be the first time you put in a cart that doesn't work?  You'd want your money back and in my mind you'd be well within your rights to get it.

This reminds me when the Flashback 2 came out. There was a lot of discussion about "Well, why don't they just add a cartridge port?" and a lot of the responses (besides the cost aspect) basically being "Think of the customer service disaster when those old carts are plugged in and don't work." Funny thing is, the FB2 probably has better compatibility with the 2600 library. I just hope Atari is able to improve that compatibility list. It's pretty sad that the weakest link is the cart dumper when under the hood Stella can run pretty much anything you throw at it. They should've gone with SD cards encased in miniature 2600 cartridge cases or something and skipped the dumper altogether.

[Zonie]

I just want the case. I want to hack my beat up 7800 into it...

[roots.genoa]

3 hours ago, leech said:

I am sort of shocked that at this point someone hasn't attempted to make a line of cart adapters for the MiSTer.  Would be a wonderful thing to be able to dump our carts directly using it, whether into memory to play, or to an SDCard for playing later.

Because that's not feasible technically, the way the MISTer was designed.

[Zoyous]

1 hour ago, Emehr said:

They should've gone with SD cards encased in miniature 2600 cartridge cases or something and skipped the dumper altogether.

And then tried to individually license titles from dozens of different rights holders, some of whom possibly can't even be tracked down? It would be a far more limited library that way. Of course I suppose the tacit suggestion is, they should have just made it piracy-friendly.

[lucienEn]

9 hours ago, Atari Superman said:

The Retron is currently the best possible way for me to have Atari in the living room without putting a strain on my aging vintage equipment. I don't like messing with adapters, modifying electronic components, or jury-rigging unstable workarounds. I just want to play Atari in the living room like I've wanted to do since I was 8. The various Flashbacks have sucky controllers and don't include licensed games like Pac-Man, which I love and you can hate all you want. The new VCS is an unending source of frustration and disappointment. It never updates itself properly without requiring me to flash the BIOS every gd time, and after all that I'm still no closer to Pac-Man. As a way to play the 2600 library, it is suboptimal by every measure.

 

I wish the Retron had a better paddle solution. I wish it supported driving controllers and keyboard controllers without some stupid-looking gearhead jumble of multiple dongles and cables and adapters. I wish the controllers in general were more robust. But they are better than the Flashback controllers, and I'm happy for what I'm getting and not fixated over what I'm not getting, which I suppose makes me the exception to the rule around here.

 

Emulation isn't the same experience, but it's close enough, and if the options are emulation or no Atari once my 2600s and CRTs inevitably bite the dust, I will take emulation gladly.

Flashback allows you to easily add any game and I think it would allow using the Retron and original controllers as well.

 

I fully get it is great to be able to insert a physical cartridge (as long as it's not on my old Atari 2600 to preserve it). It's why it's so great Audacity games released Circus Convoy on cartridge which is amazing quality. But if Atari themselves releases something brand new that may not be able to play lot of these next generation games (but works on original HW), then that's just bad (weird enough the storage seems huge unless that's all in system files:  256MB eMMC fixed internal storage).

 

I also understand the argument this is not for 'hardcore' gamers, but how many people have a big 2600 cartridge library that are not hardcore 2600 gamers? I still have a Flashback 2 (never got around trying to upgrade it with cartridge). That was cheap, so why wasn't it possible to do that instead? I'm going to guess most rather have original HW than 7800 compatibility.

 

PS on a positive node, I'm potentially excited about more original 2600 controllers. I hope they really do feel like original and don't move too much around.

Edited August 28, 2023 by lucienEn

[Thomas Jentzsch]

23 hours ago, Albert said:

I'm not a big fan of bezels as I've seen done in some cases, I think they are a bit distracting in emulators.  I'd prefer just black be used, which I'm hoping is the case here. 

Since Stella does not support bezels yet, I am sure it is black.

 

However there a different kind of bezels, some a quite discreet.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Thomas Jentzsch

[lucienEn]

8 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Since Stella does not support bezels yet, I am sure it is black.

 

However there a different kind of bezels, some a quite discreet.

Almost like an old television set:-). It's pretty odd that there are no screenshots at all from Atari. You'd think at least for pre-order they could show something.

 

If they are using Stella, wouldn't Realsports Boxing and Super Cobra work? They use F6 + E0 bankswitching. Weird thing is that both show as fail, yet Sentinel which is also F6 shows pass. So still not clear why some don't work. If Pitfall II wouldn't work it's a major downside since that's a pretty iconic game.

 

EDIT: never mind Stella is not the issue, the dumper is as discussed elsewhere. But still remains unanswered why some F6 games do work and some don't. Also given Pitfall II uses a "non-standard" bank switching format I'm afraid there's a possibility it won't work. Unless they can build some library to detect which cartridge it is.

Edited August 29, 2023 by lucienEn

[Spriggy]

On 8/23/2023 at 3:43 PM, Spriggy said:

I wonder what old Jon Phelan thinks! 

Well .. looks like we have the answer from the Legend!  Although he does go on about the Atari VCS alot .... which we all expect.  It's his baby!  And don't forget, you may need a Babel Fish translator.  God Bless old JP!

 

5 hours ago, lucienEn said:

EDIT: never mind Stella is not the issue, the dumper is as discussed elsewhere. But still remains unanswered why some F6 games do work and some don't. Also given Pitfall II uses a "non-standard" bank switching format I'm afraid there's a possibility it won't work. Unless they can build some library to detect which cartridge it is.

A broken dumper!  That does not sound good.  Maybe a dose of 'Gastro-Stop Plus' will help the problem. 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

8 hours ago, lucienEn said:

EDIT: never mind Stella is not the issue, the dumper is as discussed elsewhere. But still remains unanswered why some F6 games do work and some don't. 

AFAIK there is only one F6/F8 game (Real Sport Boxing) marked as failed. This can have multiple reasons, e.g. a defective cart or corroded contacts.

 

Super Cobra uses E0, and no E0 game has been marked as passed. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Thomas Jentzsch

[AtariLeaf]

On 8/23/2023 at 3:43 AM, Spriggy said:

I wonder what old Jon Phelan thinks! 

 

 

 

Not to be mean, but why does he look like someone photoshopped a face on the bottom of their big toe?

[roots.genoa]

56 minutes ago, AtariLeaf said:

Not to be mean, but why does he look like someone photoshopped a face on the bottom of their big toe?

I find that comment very offensive. I met toes that are quite smarter than John Phelan (and easier to understand). 😤

Edited August 30, 2023 by roots.genoa

[Spriggy]

49 minutes ago, AtariLeaf said:

Not to be mean, but why does he look like someone photoshopped a face on the bottom of their big toe?

We actually use to to call his thumbnail literally looking like a 'Thumb' @Flojomojo.   It sounds weird , but it was not malice in the end.  Just an observation!  We ended up rooting for him and his Atacobox to come to reality.  Couldn't get a more passionate Atari fan.  I even posted a pic of my ugly head as a retort for feedback and memes. 

[T.A.P.]

I'm actually pretty excited for this.

 

Looks like Amazon has stuff up for preorder now too, although the paddle controller is sold out.

[Flojomojo]

4 hours ago, Spriggy said:

We actually use to to call his thumbnail literally looking like a 'Thumb' @Flojomojo.   It sounds weird , but it was not malice in the end.  Just an observation!  We ended up rooting for him and his Atacobox to come to reality.  Couldn't get a more passionate Atari fan.  I even posted a pic of my ugly head as a retort for feedback and memes. 

Hey, leave me out of this! I'm making an effort to be nice and say nice things. I'm glad that fine fellow got the thing he paid for. 

 

What thread is this you tagged me in? Oh, the Retro77 Atari 2600+. I don't want one because I don't have any cartridges anymore, and I can play Atari games on other potato computers I own. But I guess it looks nice, and the price is OK for the 2023 market. 

 

I'm interested in playing that "new" Berserk game but not $30 for a cartridge interested. 

[T.A.P.]

Will the upgraded Berserk, those multi-carts, and Mr Run and Jump work on old hardware? I assume the answer is yes, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

[Dire 51]

1 hour ago, T.A.P. said:

Will the upgraded Berserk, those multi-carts, and Mr Run and Jump work on old hardware? I assume the answer is yes, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

I'm curious about that myself.

[Albert]

1 hour ago, T.A.P. said:

Will the upgraded Berserk, those multi-carts, and Mr Run and Jump work on old hardware? I assume the answer is yes, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

Yes, they are real 2600 games and will run fine on the 2600 and 7800.

 

 ..Al

[Dire 51]

1 minute ago, Albert said:

Yes, they are real 2600 games and will run fine on the 2600 and 7800.

 

 ..Al

Thanks for the confirmation, Al!

[Mr SQL]

On 8/28/2023 at 12:53 PM, leech said:

I am sort of shocked that at this point someone hasn't attempted to make a line of cart adapters for the MiSTer.  Would be a wonderful thing to be able to dump our carts directly using it, whether into memory to play, or to an SDCard for playing later.

 

I think the FPGA Walkman styled Atari 2600 @Metal Jesus has is capable of playing all cartridges directly including the Harmony and the SuperCharger just like a classic console for being a full FPGA implementation. Perhaps MiSTer could have FPGA core enhanced to support a real cartridge bus too.

On 8/28/2023 at 12:11 PM, RockLobster said:

I would absolutely go bonkers over an FPGA device with

1. Cartridge support (even if it doesn't support the SuperCharger)
2. Analog out:  Composite, S-Video and RGB
3. Full support for all compatible (within spec) DB-9 based controllers and accessories

The MiSTer knocks fully #2 and partially #3.    Adding a 2600dapter-d9 helps #3 get a little closer since there is no 2-button support for the 7800 (and no plans for the future).

 

The 2600+ does support CBS RAM format like the Atari Flashback Portable so some new SuperCharger games should be compatible that were translated to CBS RAM for compatibility with the portable console.

 

 

I 

 

[T.A.P.]

Honestly, when I looked at the compatibility list, I was surprised to see so few games were listed as incompatible. I figured it was going to be way more.

 

For me at least, I think I only have one game that is incompatible, although admittedly, I don't really collect home brew stuff.

[juansolo]

On 8/28/2023 at 8:09 PM, Emehr said:

This reminds me when the Flashback 2 came out. There was a lot of discussion about "Well, why don't they just add a cartridge port?" and a lot of the responses (besides the cost aspect) basically being "Think of the customer service disaster when those old carts are plugged in and don't work." Funny thing is, the FB2 probably has better compatibility with the 2600 library. I just hope Atari is able to improve that compatibility list. It's pretty sad that the weakest link is the cart dumper when under the hood Stella can run pretty much anything you throw at it. They should've gone with SD cards encased in miniature 2600 cartridge cases or something and skipped the dumper altogether.

I had a FB2 back in the day and grafted on a cart slot. Ultimately I never used it because it wasn't that compatible...

 

What this should have been is an FPGA implementation of the 2600/7800, with a cart slot, analogue electronics to give fully compatible controller inputs and RGB/Composite/S-Video/HDMI out. Basically an Analogue-style 2600. You could then have gone further with it (if the FPGA had the space) and add things like XM functionality on board (essentially what the Colectorvision Phoenix was to the Coleco with it's on board SGM). It would have been MORE compatible than the old consoles in that you could release games without those chips in and have it use them (like DK XM and PMC-40 XM). Think about the future where you could release carts for it without the expensive chips in them because they're in the machine (the whole idea behind the XM). Then you put it in a nostalgia-baiting box and you're onto a winner as it's truly a machine worth buying for anyone that runs carts (I wouldn't have put an SD card capability on it to make it a true console).

 

The problem is quite simply cost. You'd be looking at $250-300 for something like that. Which personally I'd be prepared to pay as it'd be offering something that nothing else out there did. As it is this machine has no use to me at any cost. It's lack of compatibility with many homebrews just makes it pointless. It makes far more sense just to buy a real 2600, video mod it and run it through a retrotink.

Edited August 31, 2023 by juansolo

[juansolo]

9 hours ago, Mr SQL said:

Perhaps MiSTer could have FPGA core enhanced to support a real cartridge bus too.

It's hardware limited in that regard so not really possible. It was never designed to be a console (it's an Intel subsidised FPGA development board). You could however make an FPGA based solution that did have a cart slot. Then maybe talk to the devlopers of the MiSTer 7800 core and see if they'll license that. Otherwise you're paying someone like Kevtris to make a new one for them. All very doable.

Edited August 31, 2023 by juansolo