The Atari 2600+ is live for preorders!

[Giles N]

11 minutes ago, alex_79 said:

The problem is the cartridge dumper, not the emulator.

Obtaining a correct rom trying to autodetect the cartridge type is difficult and prone to errors.

And by the titles marked Untested, we can make a fair guess at the capabilities/limitations of the dumper used in 2600+ (for my own part I’m mostly interested in 7800 titles to work, but it would be nice if they got stuff like Tunnel Runner etc, to work.)

?

 

Or can it be that it’s roughly in the direction of the R77, but still with uncertainties…?

[alex_79]

I only have limited knowledge about the 7800 and its cartridge types. You have to search what scheme each game in the list uses to have an idea about what is supported.

 

For the 2600 side, as already said, currently the dumper software seems to be as capable as the R77 one (which isn't much).

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

2 hours ago, Giles N said:

Sorry, but I don’t find a detailed description of the 7800 emulation software the 2600+ uses in this thread.

I did not say that all your questions were redundant.

[Blinky]

8 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

since their dumper cannot be updated

Is the mcu protected? Has sombody tried? I do not have a retron 77 but looked into it in case the Atari 2600+ uses the same mcu and a crappy dumper. I got the impression it is possible.

 

8 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

I am optimistic that the dumper will be improved

If not I'll probably have a crack at it.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

8 minutes ago, Blinky said:

Is the mcu protected? Has sombody tried? I do not have a retron 77 but looked into it in case the Atari 2600+ uses the same mcu and a crappy dumper. I got the impression it is possible.

I do not know. But even it can be updated, AFAIK this would not be feasible for the majority of users.

8 minutes ago, Blinky said:

If not I'll probably have a crack at it.

Go for it, maybe you can find a way I cannot see.

[Blinky]

5 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

this would not be feasible for the majority of users

I don't know but yes it would require a bit of tinkering to make a DIY programmer. A solder free breadboard version could probably also be used.

7 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

maybe you can find a way I cannot see

Not sure what you mean. I'm not talking about DPC(+) and arm carts but cart detection and the alternative bank switch schemes (that are doable) for the 2600+

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

14 minutes ago, Blinky said:

I don't know but yes it would require a bit of tinkering to make a DIY programmer. A solder free breadboard version could probably also be used.

Not sure what you mean. I'm not talking about DPC(+) and arm carts but cart detection and the alternative bank switch schemes (that are doable) for the 2600+

Sorry, I was not reading your post correctly. Ignore!  

[Blinky]

NP

BTW I don't think updating the mcu of the 2600+ will be much different then it would be for the retron 77 but I love to be wrong about this

[+batari]

9 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

AFAIK Hyperkin never reacted to our community comments. But since their dumper cannot be updated, they could have not reacted anyway.

 

Atari/Plaion did better. They contacted us (The Stella team), listened to our advice and at least partially followed them. I am optimistic that the dumper will be improved.

 

@batari I suppose you are not prepared to share information about dumping Harmony/Melody carts with us or them?

I will look for my code for detecting and dumping the legacy bankswitch types.

 

As for detecting and dumping ARM bankswitch types, the method I have used privately requires that the cart port hardware is set up a certain way. If the hardware is not set up this way (and it likely isn't if the hardware is already designed) then it is probably not possible and sharing this info would serve no constructive purpose.

 

I will not say 100% that it is impossible, though. There may still be a way. I will have to think about it.

[Giles N]

7 hours ago, alex_79 said:

The problem is the cartridge dumper, not the emulator.

Obtaining a correct rom trying to autodetect the cartridge type is difficult and prone to errors.

So if the games listed as ‘untested’ really would be incompatible, the most likely source of this incompatibility would be the details of the hardware used on the cart-dumper in 2600+ production/design…?

 

I just don’t know very much about these issues, and I guess I could read up on a thousand or two threads about it, but will just stick with hoping Atari somehow gets as many games compatible as possible (prior to or after release). 

 

I don’t know what they checked out of possibilities in the first place. Guess they have some production-limitations if they went bankrupt back in 2012-13 or whenever it was.

 

So, its like I see a converter-piece-thing in my mind; a converter-piece to insert in the 2600+ to read, uhm, like everything on the 2600 and 7800.

That would look, well; I leave it up everyones imagination… I mean why did Sega do the 32X? But this is a retro-console, and given their promises of ‘no cartridge left behind’ they may get some downvotes from dissatisfied gamers after release (if they don’t try to get to grips with it).

 

Whatever the reasons for these problems of suboptimal compatibility, if Atari wants to do comeback-maneuvers, they need to do things that are as good as their production-means allows for.

Make impacts.

I think a long line-up of generations of 2600+’es with one or two new game to be compatible for every generation, will not get them back in business not give them

much credibility. Rather it will just make retrogamers, customers, frustrated.

 

If this is the best they can do as of now, and given its due to limitations of money and capability of production-means, I sort-of hope it will sell well so they can get back in business. But if they do that, then they ougth to get on with providing some really solid solutions (both hardware and software) for retro-gamers. 
 

None of their Flashbacks have held the slightest interest for me. 
Too gradual. Thus too limited.

Gradual =/= zero impact, and boy, Atari needs impacts. Closest they’ve got to making real impact, was the 50th Anniversary - and that one too could have been improved upon in many respects (I believe easily so if analyzed and tested by gamers, ie from a gamer-point of view, which also happens to be the customer-point of view.)

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Giles N

[famicommander]

I was hoping the "new" Atari would be better than the old Atari, but no, apparently they won't be. 

 

Just more overpriced emulation devices with bad compatibility. I guess the one thing Atari has learned over the years is that people here will buy every single device they crap out with an Atari logo on it no matter how bad it is.

If this device kicked you in the nuts instead of playing Atari games there'd be somebody here saying, "Well, it's only 130 bucks, what do you expect? Something that plays 50 year old video games at a reasonable level of speed and compatibility while not kicking you in the nuts?"

Edited September 5, 2023 by famicommander

[+x=usr(1536)]

20 minutes ago, famicommander said:

If this device kicked you in the nuts instead of playing Atari games there'd be somebody here saying, "Well, it's only 130 bucks, what do you expect? Something that plays 50 year old video games at a reasonable level of speed and compatibility while not kicking you in the nuts?"

Market research indicates that people who repeatedly spend money on things like this enjoy being kicked in the nuts.  Atari's just making sure that they get their money's worth.

[m.o.terra kaesi]

for gods sake let's hope atari read all this and make use of the 2 months until release.

[+bent_pin]

51 minutes ago, m.o.terra kaesi said:

for gods sake let's hope atari read all this and make use of the 2 months until release.

[+bent_pin]

1 hour ago, famicommander said:

If this device kicked you in the nuts instead of playing Atari games there'd be somebody here saying, "Well, it's only 130 bucks, what do you expect? Something that plays 50 year old video games at a reasonable level of speed and compatibility while not kicking you in the nuts?"

I said something quite similar to this. I bought it for a few reasons. Among those, to test and certify that any carts that I sell on ebay are compatible, additionally while I do not intend to make games specifically for this system, I would like to consider releasing compatible ports.

[John Stamos Mullet]

1 hour ago, famicommander said:

I was hoping the "new" Atari would be better than the old Atari, but no, apparently they won't be. 

 

Just more overpriced emulation devices with bad compatibility. I guess the one thing Atari has learned over the years is that people here will buy every single device they crap out with an Atari logo on it no matter how bad it is.

If this device kicked you in the nuts instead of playing Atari games there'd be somebody here saying, "Well, it's only 130 bucks, what do you expect? Something that plays 50 year old video games at a reasonable level of speed and compatibility while not kicking you in the nuts?"

How is having 98% compatibility with game cartridges that are approaching 50 years old at this point even remotely considered "bad compatibility"?

 

People who are bothered that this stuff doesn't work with IP-stealing hacks, "homebrew ports" that require ARM chips to run have to be kidding themselves.

[famicommander]

3 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

How is having 98% compatibility with game cartridges that are approaching 50 years old at this point even remotely considered "bad compatibility"?

 

People who are bothered that this stuff doesn't work with IP-stealing hacks, "homebrew ports" that require ARM chips to run have to be kidding themselves.

Until proven otherwise I'm assuming everything marked as "untested" is not going to work. Untested and failed games make up way more than 3% of this list:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0609/3658/5381/files/Atari-2600Plus-Compatibility.pdf

 

Everything we've seen so far indicates this is the same crap as the Retron 77, except with 7800 compatibility and no SD card slot. The Retron has been out for years and is about half the price. 

[John Stamos Mullet]

20 minutes ago, famicommander said:

Until proven otherwise I'm assuming everything marked as "untested" is not going to work. Untested and failed games make up way more than 3% of this list:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0609/3658/5381/files/Atari-2600Plus-Compatibility.pdf

 

Everything we've seen so far indicates this is the same crap as the Retron 77, except with 7800 compatibility and no SD card slot. The Retron has been out for years and is about half the price. 

Failed makes up 3% of the list.

 

Untested means untested. You're inventing a scenario to support your beliefs. The reality is, they are untested, meaning more than likely they simply don't have access to a known working copy. Given that this hobby is dominated by price gouging scum, and that that the rarer titles are nearly impossible to find for less than they are trying to sell this whole system, I doubt they care enough to test them.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by John Stamos Mullet

[akator]

I really don't think the R77 is "crap."  While it doesn't have full cart capability because of the cart dumper, it does have Stella's full ROM capability.  I've really enjoyed my R77, and that's even with owning real Atari hardware and a MiSTer.

 

But if you take away the micro SD card capability built into the R77, as has been done with the 2600+, that cart dumper makes or breaks it.

[alex_79]

6 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Untested means untested. You're inventing a scenario to support your beliefs. The reality is, they are untested, meaning more than likely they simply don't have access to a known working copy.

Please!

The list of games marked with "pass" includes lots of extremely rare or even never released ones.

They obviously never tested all those games. And anyone who knows a bit about Atari 2600 bankswitching schemes can easily see a pattern that indicates exactly what games the cart port can dump or not (also those that are not on that list).

 

 

[John Stamos Mullet]

12 minutes ago, akator said:

I really don't think the R77 is "crap."  While it doesn't have full cart capability because of the cart dumper, it does have Stella's full ROM capability.  I've really enjoyed my R77, and that's even with owning real Atari hardware and a MiSTer.

 

But if you take away the micro SD card capability built into the R77, as has been done with the 2600+, that cart dumper makes or breaks it.

It does have a USB-C port though, So I'm willing to bet it too can support external card readers, drives, and custom firmware after a short while. None of these devices have exactly high level security on this stuff. Shit, the first few generations of Arcade1up boards had easily hackable USB ports and mame running right on them.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

24 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Failed makes up 3% of the list.

 

Untested means untested. You're inventing a scenario to support your beliefs. The reality is, they are untested, meaning more than likely they simply don't have access to a known working copy. Given that this hobby is dominated by price gouging scum, and that that the rarer titles are nearly impossible to find for less than they are trying to sell this whole system, I doubt they care enough to test them.

And that all carts that use non-standard bankswitching are marked as untested, is what? A coincidence?

 

If the Atari 2600+ would support these types of bankswitching, how should anyone verify without testing? Do you assume they develop a dumper that e.g. supports E0 bankswitching and does not not test it with an E0 cart?

 

I am pretty sure they are untested, because when the list got compiled, there was no need to test them. Because at that time, the dumper wasn't supporting these types of bankswitching. However, this may improve until the release. And maybe even later too.

[+bent_pin]

Is it November yet?

[John Stamos Mullet]

41 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

And that all carts that use non-standard bankswitching are marked as untested, is what? A coincidence?

 

If the Atari 2600+ would support these types of bankswitching, how should anyone verify without testing? Do you assume they develop a dumper that e.g. supports E0 bankswitching and does not not test it with an E0 cart?

 

I am pretty sure they are untested, because when the list got compiled, there was no need to test them. Because at that time, the dumper wasn't supporting these types of bankswitching. However, this may improve until the release. And maybe even later too.

The fact that they listed them as untested tells me they are working on getting them supported - which is better than just not doing it at all.

[M-S]

I just hope this thing releases already so people can make their minds on whether they like it or hate it.