Gunstar Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Some more great points there as well as some reiteration from what I and others have said, but maybe you missed his post that said basically "I have already considered these points and declared them irrelevent." We're dealing with one of those types that has the attitude of "I've already made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts." We won't ever see anything from him and I don't think we ever would have, regardless of this present situation. If he had been really serious about this project or his "Last Starfighter" project, he would have started something years ago. A game's name is worthless after all, it's the gameplay itself that counts. He could have started a fighting game or his starfighter game long ago, and released it under another name, instead of spending all his time, money and energy on attempting to obtain rights that make no difference in the end. MegaData, please, just be a fan and if you want to do something, do it, but don't go off the deep end because life doesn't always happen the way you want. It's just a bit of code and a project that is so incomplete, it's worthless except to show some neat graphics on the Jag. If your just looking to make a name for yourself, your in the wrong place anyway, program on a current machine. This is a place for people who first and foremost, love the Jaguar and want to see stuff come out for it regardless of the time and cost to them and who expect little or nothing in return except to further the Jaguar, the Jaguar community and be proud of a project they made with their own hands. The group I work with is always trying to get games out to the community, and it's not for profit, it's to get games to people, like Jaysmith releasing the UV beta, like Clint releasing BI/WN at a nominal price to cover costs only, just so we could play it. Like Jaysmith trying to get the rights to release Robinson's Requiem, at cost, just so people can have this great game. They aren't in it for the money or the recognition, nobody is, except possibly you and one other. If I had the opportunity to get my hands on a proto and the right to it, I'd do everything in my power to get it to the fans at little or no cost and if someone copied it and spread it around, FANTASTIC! saves me the time and trouble of doing it myself and the people get to play it! Just what I had in mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcat Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Hi ! We won't ever see anything from him and I don't think we ever would have, regardless of this present situation. If he had been really serious about this project or his "Last Starfighter" project, he would have started something years ago. A game's name is worthless after all, it's the gameplay itself that counts. He could have started a fighting game or his starfighter game long ago, and released it under another name, instead of spending all his time, money and energy on attempting to obtain rights that make no difference in the end. That's exactly what I don't understand either.. Why are so many people so obsessed trying to finish stuff, that was abandoned years ago by their original teams ? The important thing is the gameplay, a game that is fun to play. Who on earth cares about the names ?! You don't have fun with the name of a game, but with the game. What Carl did, was something different. The projects he picked up had a good chance being finished and actually got finished. And he had the abilities to do it and also was allowed to publish those. I think all this stuff with finishing existing projects, may it be Native or TRF or whatever, is just that they are unable to actually create something on their own. They seem to need these popular names to get publicity. But what all these projects have in common is the little or no chance to get finished. Native for example, was an really impressive demo, which would have made a top must have jaguar game. However without the original team it can never become this. Duranik (the original native developers) are what made Native something special. It was their ideas that made the game great. Nobody else could ever finish it like they could have done it. So what's the point of trying to finish it then ? If somebody wants to use the code, fine. Duranik declared Native to be free to everybody who wants to "play" with the code. But the only reason to actually call the game somebody else creates "Native" is because he can't come up with a name or he just wants the publicity connected to the name. You could just as well do a completely new game and give it a new name. Same is true for TRF. It's too incomplete to finish it (actually even the chances of finishing Native are a lot better than finishing TRF). If MegaData was actually able to make a 2D fighter on the Jag, why didn't he do that already ? He got his hardware and the tools about the same time as I did, about 4 years ago. So why didn't he just do a 2D fighter from scratch ? MegaData this is NOT supposed to be an attack or so, just answer this simple question: Why didn't you just code a 2D fighter from scratch instead of doing nothing for four years ?! In that time you could have finished a 2D fighter easily if you were able to. Regards, Lars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Thanks for the kind words Gunstar. I thought all was lost with Robinson's Requiem, but I received a Private Mail today that has renewed my hope. More to come soon guys.....Back to the topic at hand.... I do not have any Jaguar demos that would've been seen by anyone, nor have I ever made any plans to release anything less than a FULL game on the Atari Jaguar. This is great proof that you know how to code.... During my move in March I uncovered some demos I made on the Apple IIe and found some BASIC programming books I had from computer camp... and a Boy Scouts merit badge book on computers.... Yeah yeah...in 1987 I wrote the attendance program for my high school in a compiled basic program. Whooptidoo.... Can you write Assembly and program on the Jaguar???? If you want a demo with my company logo on the screen, I really don't see the point. You request proof of code so that you can decide if you can easily/not dismiss me as part of the community? The reason behind your question seems questionable to me. Ok.... JagWarlord, joined AtariAge "23 Jul 2003," and has purchased several rare items for the Jaguar in the last couple months. He is now selling those items, like voice modems. Someone has posted, asking JagWarlord how his Jag Voice Modems work. Have you seen Mr. Warlord respond to anything like that? I have... However, he simply asks where to get the rarest items he can find, and then sells them. If that's the kind of community you wish to promote, then you have already pressed the self-destruct button. Capitalism is a beautiful thing. He enjoys the product and then sells it, I don't see anything wrong with that...sorry... I told High-Voltage not to speak to me directly. They are only allowed to contact me through my lawyer. I've been advised not to seek one out by someone I can still trust in the community. Since HVS has threatened me with legal action, should anyone play the game, and I can see that even though most of the community knew this fact and kept distribution in full swing, I can honestly say that I'm not interested in further negotiations. It's too costly and I've indirectly ultimately undermined their trust. If I DID have any chance at getting rights, that hope has been obliterated by people who wanted to make a quick buck. I have no rights. My hard drive crashed last year destroying the most important e-mails, with regards to source code, from High-Voltage. It also took most of the things I was working on. So you have absoultely no distribution rights whatsoever for TRF, however you willingly gave a copy to someone (as stated before). You do realize that is illegal yes? In addition, completing the source code wouldn't do anyone any good because you still would not be able to release it. Business 101, you must secure rights to copyrighted material prior to distribution. Unless of course you're looking to get sued. I now understand why you have an attorney.... I don't see how people think that the kind of behaviour JagWarlord has demonstrated is tolerable, in the slightest. He shows no sign of being a significant part of this community and I don't want any part of it if this thread in any gauge of what kind of support BattleSphere eBayers are getting from the community. He is exactly what this community is about. He loves to play the Jaguar and enjoy the many prototypes available for it. Isn't that what this is all about? Later. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 speaking of sharing, I got some files I need to dig out so Al can post them here on AA for download....(shoot me an email when your ready Al~ ) Clint Thompson Right on Clint! I can't wait to check 'em out! I too plan on making some more goodies available to everyone..... Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Saturn Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I too plan on making some more goodies available to everyone..... *anxiously rubs hands together* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.skid Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Megadata, I don't get your point... Could I ask you few questions? 1) Why did you get upset when JagWarlord wrote about selling his TRF proto? I mean, I would love to buy it - but now I can't - because I wish to see the game; but I don't understand how it could affect your work on the full game. When you will complete TRF and sell it, I'll buy it, even if I own the proto; like me, a lot of us. 2) If you are still in trouble with HVS for the code, it means that you don't own it legally, that you have it without permission from HVS? Or that HVS sold it (to Curt, then Curt to you), but it's useless because you can't use it? Also, why HVS would sue you for a proto that could be around before you become the owner of the code (and, from what I've understand, there's a lot around)? There's no evidence that it's your fault! 3) Where is the difference between let JagWarlord be the owner of the proto, or someone else? I think you could forget it, it's not a problem for your project. 4) If you think to go on with TRF, and complete the game, do you have planned a date for the release? Please note that these are not ironical or rhetorical questions, I'm only asking to understand. It could be only a big misunderstanding. Jag community don't need this kind of things; I wasn't much in the forum last months, so I don't wanna to judge anyone, but we don't need to lose other developers... BTW, I don't agree with your view about B&C: i.e. I own Barkley SUJ and I'm very happy! Thank you (edited to correct mistypes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.skid Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Thanks for the kind words Gunstar. I thought all was lost with Robinson's Requiem, but I received a Private Mail today that has renewed my hope. More to come soon guys.....Back to the topic at hand.... ...."Jay is working for us"....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Hi, Tony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.skid Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Hello David, I'm happy to be back there, and meet old friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Hey Tony. Too bad you weren't around a few weeks ago. This place was like a warzone and you're the person that used to always come in and try to calm everyone down and bring everyone back to earth. But anyways, good to have you back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Hi Tony, good to see you are back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 OKay, Can I just ask some very straight forward questions and get some straight forward answers: Megadata: Are you saying that the proto currently in Jagworlds possession either came directly through you or indirectly from someone who got it directly from you? You gave explicit instructions that the code not leave anyones hands and wind up out in the public? THIS is why you are angry??? I'm just trying to get a clear understanding of all this anger going around. Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 OKay, Can I just ask some very straight forward questions and get some straight forward answers: Megadata: Are you saying that the proto currently in Jagworlds possession either came directly through you or indirectly from someone who got it directly from you? You gave explicit instructions that the code not leave anyones hands and wind up out in the public? THIS is why you are angry??? I'm just trying to get a clear understanding of all this anger going around. Curt if your assumptions/questions your asking are the reason, even i can understand why he might be upset, but it gives him no right to lash out at Jagwarlord; he's not the one that took advantage of MegaData! it also does not give him the right to make broad sweeping judgements that the whole jaguar community are a bunch of untrustworthy people, because one or two idividuals have proved themselves as such. To say that this proto being sold will cause TRF to be widley distributed or that it's being widely distributed would hurt his future project is also wrong. That's what i don't like about it all. I have sympathy for anyone that gets taken advantage of when they were trying to do people a favor, but the way he is reacting is totally wrong regardless. Not to mention the simple fact that he has obtained the source and possibly some alpha/beta images, but that he DOES NOT even have the rights to the game yet! Supposedly HVS "promised" him something, but so what! I'm sure it wasn't exactly on their lists of priorities, and since the offer hasn't come to fruition he's gotten an attorney to eeal with them?!? After they freely offer it out of the kindness of their hearts?!? What the HELL is that all about?!?! (this attorney thing started long before any images/protos started circulating, you can read about it at his website!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaData Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Are you saying that the proto currently in Jagworlds possession either came directly through you or indirectly from someone who got it directly from you? Indirectly. I'm not really concerned with JagWarlord as a distributor, but the people he acquired it from. It just seems very unfair that JagWarlord probably spent a great deal of money for the thing and that this is going to continue. You gave explicit instructions that the code not leave anyones hands and wind up out in the public? Correct. The code was GIVEN to a total of two (2) people with only one request: It cannot be distributed to anyone else. Multiple copies were necessary, in case the battery on the Alpine were to go bad or some other misfortune were to happen. At the time, I also requested help to get the file hex edited from a file larger than 4MB. What I did with the TRF ROM was not illegal in any way, shape, or form. *I* was not the one showing TRF at JagFest events, thereby skirting any legal threats made to me. THIS is why you are angry??? Wouldn't you be? I just found out, after having been told for years to have the only known copy of TRF, that there are multiple copies of the TRF ROM circulating. To all of you - If you have taken any of my words as a personal attack, I ask you to please reread my posts. I feel that I have fully illustrated my points with examples. I feel many things I've written are being misunderstood. When I say that "I already ruled your post irrelevant," I'm refering to another post I had previously made. When I ask, "Where is Lars' game?" I am illustrating the time it takes to create a game. ie: How long did BattleSphere take three people to create? Try to see the reasons behind what I'm saying and not the people I'm responding to, please. If you do a search, you will find that I have mentioned most of the details of my botched High-Voltage Software deal in these forums. What I consider to be common knowledge is searchable on Atari Age. If there were an archive of JI2, you would find information on this topic there. I've given a couple new details to the HVS saga here, but a good chunk of this is really quite repetitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXG/MNX Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 If I DID have any chance at getting rights, that hope has been obliterated by people who wanted to make a quick buck. I have no rights. My hard drive crashed last year destroying the most important e-mails, with regards to source code, from High-Voltage. It also took most of the things I was working on. Hmm Megadata ? Seems to me you have now sources, no rights to publish them. 1 proto floating around that you had 4 years ago and that you have NO code written yourself to show. You're telling us that after 3 years you got an harddisk crash lost everything and no backup ? I mean as programmer you would take care of your source code... atleast when you're working so long already on the project. Hmm I don't think I will ever understand this... TXG/MNX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I'm sure it wasn't exactly on their lists of priorities, and since the offer hasn't come to fruition he's gotten an attorney to deal with them?!? After they freely offer it out of the kindness of their hearts?!? What the HELL is that all about?!?! (this attorney thing started long before any images/protos started circulating, you can read about it at his website!) figures, that information is no longer available on his website, it was recently "updated" yesterday... So the soap opera on his website has been conviently swept under the rug. Oh well, forgive and definately forget, I'm finished with this thread and all this BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaData Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I've been learning how to program for a long time. It's something I do in my free time, when I'm not working on Artwork, playing my guitar, or any of a dozen other things. Possibly, if you stick around the Jag scene long enough, you may see a program created by Jason Data, if I decide that it's good enough to be published, but I make no promises. With TRF, it's just not fun. That doesn't mean you won't see something else. It doesn't mean that you will either. this attorney thing started long before any images/protos started circulating, you can read about it at his website! The "attorney thing" started shortly before I bought source code from Curt and quickly turned into something else once I obtained source code, changing again after seeing the ROM for sale. There's no need to direct anyone to my website. There's been nothing on my website about the HVS situation since the last update, yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcat Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Hi MegaData ! I've been learning how to program for a long time. It's something I do in my free time, when I'm not working on Artwork, playing my guitar, or any of a dozen other things. Possibly, if you stick around the Jag scene long enough, you may see a program created by Jason Data, if I decide that it's good enough to be published, but I make no promises. Cool, in that case, if you get something cool done that you think is worth it, I'll be happy to see it in a few years maybe. With TRF, it's just not fun. That doesn't mean you won't see something else. It doesn't mean that you will either. Ok, however if you decide to stop working on TRF, you should really sell the code back to Curt or somebody else who can do something with it or publish it on the net or somewhere else for everybody to see. Regards, Lars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 THIS is why you are angry??? Wouldn't you be? I just found out, after having been told for years to have the only known copy of TRF, that there are multiple copies of the TRF ROM circulating. Being the way Atari was/is and how their liquidation went (and no this is no personal attack, just a question) how can you be 100% positive that you were the only one to have a copy of TRF? Or the fist for that matter... I mean... I've had a copy of TRF for... many many years now. Course it came from an ex-Atari employee who I've become friends with over the past 6 years but you have to remember... I was a psycho when it came to trying to obtain stuff after Atari had closed the doors and even to this day I still search for unreleased stuff (tho not as much anymore, because I think I've hit almost every doortsep in the U.S. with an email, phone call or fax (tho I havne't had the chance to talk to Sam ... (and I paid a good price for all the stuff I've ever obtained regardless. Point being, alot of people have no idea what is floating around on those old hard drives or floppies or cd's or whatever that contain all kinds of stuff that was "originally" on Atari's systems while they were still alive and kicking in 95/96 and quite a bit of important stuff seems to have been backed up or saved so.... and it doesnt matter if you did or didn't give a copy of TRF out to someone, because I gaurantee it's somewhere else on a zip or HD or cd that someone else has and that applies to just about any/every other proto/unreleased game out there, their out there on some original Atari format somewhere in "original" form. I bet a LOT slipped out of Atari before the final days of destruction. It'd be cool to get the source to maybe Cybermorph and the map/gfx editor to mess around and do another shorter Cybermorph with newer stuff. (Hopefully that'll surface for people to play around with and create their own versions of Cybermorph In end, I just think it'd be cool of HVS to just say "Here you go, the Atari community, have fun with TRF ... it's yours to play now!" It'd be nice if they found the Dactyl Joust leftovers and toss it our way too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 THIS is why you are angry??? Wouldn't you be? I just found out, after having been told for years to have the only known copy of TRF, that there are multiple copies of the TRF ROM circulating. Being the way Atari was/is and how their liquidation went (and no this is no personal attack, just a question) how can you be 100% positive that you were the only one to have a copy of TRF? Or the fist for that matter... I mean... I've had a copy of TRF for... many many years now. Course it came from an ex-Atari employee who I've become friends with over the past 6 years but you have to remember... I was a psycho when it came to trying to obtain stuff after Atari had closed the doors and even to this day I still search for unreleased stuff (tho not as much anymore, because I think I've hit almost every doortsep in the U.S. with an email, phone call or fax (tho I havne't had the chance to talk to Sam ... (and I paid a good price for all the stuff I've ever obtained regardless. Point being, alot of people have no idea what is floating around on those old hard drives or floppies or cd's or whatever that contain all kinds of stuff that was "originally" on Atari's systems while they were still alive and kicking in 95/96 and quite a bit of important stuff seems to have been backed up or saved so.... and it doesnt matter if you did or didn't give a copy of TRF out to someone, because I gaurantee it's somewhere else on a zip or HD or cd that someone else has and that applies to just about any/every other proto/unreleased game out there, their out there on some original Atari format somewhere in "original" form. I bet a LOT slipped out of Atari before the final days of destruction. It'd be cool to get the source to maybe Cybermorph and the map/gfx editor to mess around and do another shorter Cybermorph with newer stuff. (Hopefully that'll surface for people to play around with and create their own versions of Cybermorph In end, I just think it'd be cool of HVS to just say "Here you go, the Atari community, have fun with TRF ... it's yours to play now!" It'd be nice if they found the Dactyl Joust leftovers and toss it our way too... Well said Clint, I couldn't agree more..... Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 See, now Clint brings up a VERY important point, a few months back I bought out two SUV's full of Atari equipment, including a massive amount of Jag equipment and developers h/w and code from a former Atari employee, in fact he was the very last employee at Atari under JTS right up to July 1996. I've been slowly but surely pulling as much stuff together and freely distributing a lot of it, other physical items, like the CD source code I've been selling to recoup the very large amount of $$$ I paid for all this stuff AND the cost of shipping from CA out to NY (16-17 Jaguar 64 warehouse box sized boxed all weighing a considering amount) Among a lot of this stuff I'm turning up things like the RSA programs, the TRF source CD's (which were actually in the original box with postal markings back and forth between Atari and HSV) So who's to really say what is out there, what is still out there unfound and what is out there that no one knows someone has. Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaData Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Clint has a good point, but I failed to mention something I meant to reply to earlier... People are supposed to be allowed to distribute ROMs freely in a open forum when the creators of the game have threatened to sue me if anyone PLAYS the game? Perhaps mentioning this at the very start or PMing JagWarlord asking him to not sell TRF for this reason would have ended this at the start and more tastefully. I did PM JagWarlord, before he even decided to sell the TRF flash rom, asking him where he got it from. He never replied. Has he told anyone where he got it from? I beleive I know the source, but I am capable of admitting I was wrong... and if it cannot be traced back to me, that would be great! It would make me feel a thousand times better if it came from Atari, but when he can tell me where the Total Carnage rom came from and gives no reply to where the TRF file came from, I draw my own conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Clint has a good point, but I failed to mention something I meant to reply to earlier... People are supposed to be allowed to distribute ROMs freely in a open forum when the creators of the game have threatened to sue me if anyone PLAYS the game? Perhaps mentioning this at the very start or PMing JagWarlord asking him to not sell TRF for this reason would have ended this at the start and more tastefully. I did PM JagWarlord, before he even decided to sell the TRF flash rom, asking him where he got it from. He never replied. Has he told anyone where he got it from? I beleive I know the source, but I am capable of admitting I was wrong... and if it cannot be traced back to me, that would be great! It would make me feel a thousand times better if it came from Atari, but when he can tell me where the Total Carnage rom came from and gives no reply to where the TRF file came from, I draw my own conclusions. Well, Jagworld doesn't necessarily have to tell you and anyone else, but if he does, I think that is something personal and private between you two guys and not meant for this public thread, he has a right to his privacy on the item, its source and so forth and if he is willing to let that information out to you, then thats great and if so, that should again, be a a PM between you two guys... Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterG Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 There where some good questions. What is the point in HVS selling Megadata the stuff and then saying nobody is allowed to play with it? How can you even think of finishing the game under such circumstances? I think people are running circles around themselves here. Is it possible to finish the game? Yes or no? If not, then I don't know what we are talking about. Somebody should release the sources and everything is fine. Period. What rights do you have Megadata? How is your "contract" with HVS? I don't seem to get it. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Being the way Atari was/is and how their liquidation went (and no this is no personal attack, just a question) how can you be 100% positive that you were the only one to have a copy of TRF? Or the fist for that matter... I mean... I've had a copy of TRF for... many many years now. See this is what I was saying. Very rarely do you ever own "The Only" copy of a particular prototype. It may be the only copy YOU know of, but there always seem to be several out there. This has happened many many times with various 2600 and 5200 prototypes, and I can't see why the Jag would be any different. Often a programmer or even other developers on unrelated projects take home personal copies of a WIP game and sell them off years later when they find them again. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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