Sid Pokey Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 My latest project is to bring my 800XL back into use after years of being boxed. Step 1: Power. Not wanting to risk the original power brick, I got a USB to DIN cable. Tested it, it seems fine. I have many USB power adapters, so all should be good, right? A 3A adapter from a wireless charger: Dead. A 2A adapter for an iPad: Dead. A 2A adapter for a Samsung phone: Dead. A 2A adapter on a power block: Dead. Even tried the multiple USBs on my desktop PC: Dead. Not a flicker. None of them work! So dead Atari then? No, cos connect the original power block (after testing it of course) and it lives! Which is nice... but why!? The odd thing I don't get is, the output of these adapters. They all should be more than enough amperage, but they're supposed to be 5v, right? But all but one is putting out only around 3v. Only the Samsung is more, and even that's only 4.7v, and still doesn't work. What am I missing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Power: https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=356 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 17 minutes ago, Sid Pokey said: I got a USB to DIN cable. Tested it, it seems fine So how did you test the din7 usb cable works? 5v 2amp minimum usb mains adapters will be fine to power a stock 800xl. Assume you are in the UK btw? Can you still use all the usb mains adapters to charge their originally intended devices? Most apple iPhone USB adapters are around 1 to 1.5amp so wouldn't be enough. Also, are you plugging all directly into your wall socket or into a gang extension with other electrical devices attached? Remember trying to power anything from a USB socket off a computer where it might be usb 2 or 3, will likely be a lower amp output, 0.5amp most likely. So not going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 This one will work: Link to more info:https://www.southernamis.com/forum/general-discussions/atari-usb-c-psu-device However, I think this is a better solution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Pokey Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 8 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said: So how did you test the din7 usb cable works? 5v 2amp minimum usb mains adapters will be fine to power a stock 800xl. Assume you are in the UK btw? Can you still use all the usb mains adapters to charge their originally intended devices? Most apple iPhone USB adapters are around 1 to 1.5amp so wouldn't be enough. Also, are you plugging all directly into your wall socket or into a gang extension with other electrical devices attached? Remember trying to power anything from a USB socket off a computer where it might be usb 2 or 3, will likely be a lower amp output, 0.5amp most likely. So not going to work. Okay, further clarifications: Cable tested with multimeter to check pins wired correctly. Yes, in UK. All USB power adapters tried continue to function in their day job. Apple adapter is for an old iPad, so is a higher 2.1A (10w). Plugged into extension cable, but nothing else connected. One of USBs on PC is 3.1 gen 2 so should delivery a higher amperage (3A?). Still don't get why they're only 3V though. Is that what power adapters put out when there's no load? Could that be why olde Ataris are so picky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 The Atari works without any problems on a USB charger - a regular USB charger from the car - in addition, WiFiPrime was inserted into Atari, so the power consumption is higher. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeberbach Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) Best power adapter option: https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/709-GST18A05-P1J - just add the DIN plug and you are done. The USB power supplies are always going to give mixed results. Some are going to always supply 5V 2+A for fast charge and will not do any negotiation to get there as they intend for use with all devices and don't want to implement all the handshaking schemes. There are devices that will attempt negotiation with the power-using devices and limit output if they get none, supplying full power only when they see the secret handshake. At the other end are USB devices that are only ever rated for "low power devices" capable of 100mA - we like to think USB is always good for 500mA but low power is out there. Then there are all the very complicated variants on the USB spec. Then there are all the dodgy supplies that are labeled one thing, and either simply can't deliver the current or voltage lags when they do or they actually catch fire when used. See http://www.righto.com/2012/03/inside-cheap-phone-charger-and-why-you.html Just buy the MeanWell. Edited April 1 by aeberbach 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woj Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 One of the filtering capacitors inside your Atari gone? There is no reason why it should not run off USB. Mine did run off a really low quality USB adapter. Why you get 3V readings is beyond me though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 For the record I've never had a USB din7 power cable that didn't power any of the following stock A8 machines: All XE line, 600XL, 800XL, Xegs I get these particular din7 to usb cables and power my a8s off a 4 x extension gang which has 2 x usb sockets. They have no issues powering said machines: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324365010703 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overange Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) I also never had an issue with using USB Adapters, even the cheap Chinese ones, however, I would never recommend anyone to use those, make sure you only use approved Power Adapters. Do you measure that 3 Volts at the din connector? Were did you get the USB to Din Cable? Edited April 1 by Overange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Pokey Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 6 minutes ago, Overange said: I also never had an issue with using USB Adapters, even the cheap Chinese ones, however, I would never recommend anyone to use those, make sure you only use approved Power Adapters. Do you measure that 3 Volts at the din connector? Were did you get the USB to Din Cable? Yes, measured at the DIN end. Even tested side-by-side with the brick: 3v vs 5v. Cable from here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324365010703 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 11 minutes ago, Sid Pokey said: Yes, measured at the DIN end. Even tested side-by-side with the brick: 3v vs 5v. Cable from here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324365010703 Yup, great reliable cables those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overange Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 1 hour ago, Sid Pokey said: Yes, measured at the DIN end. Even tested side-by-side with the brick: 3v vs 5v. Cable from here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324365010703 The only other thing to try is to measure the voltage coming out of your power adapters Basically across pins 1 and 4 If you get 5 volts, the next things to check is the resistance on your cable. Check you have no continuity or any reading of any kind across + and - Measure the resistance from + on the USB to the + on the DIN. Measure the resistance from - on the USB to the - on the DIN. They should ideally be dead short zero ohms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 FWIW, all of the XL machines here are powered from 2.5A Raspberry Pi power supplies. They're Canakit-branded and were surplus to requirements when I ordered the RasPis that they were included with; the RasPis have been running off of PoE more or less since the first one was installed. For reference, the cable being used is this one from 8-Bit Classics. One of those plus a USB micro to A (female) adapter and everything's good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cougar Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 arent many of these chargers multi output V / I and will sync with the device and throttle themselves? Thought I've seen 5 9 12 V output listed on a wall puck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxAxNxDxExRxExR Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I have come across something similar once, and it showed that the round shield on the DIN was grounded as well, which the USB adapter didn't like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) I recently purchased a few of these USB C to 7pin adapters from @mozzwald and they work great with my XL/XE's. No issues at all running them with Samsung power adapters. https://mozzwald.com/product/atari-8-bit-usb-c-power-adapter/ Edited April 2 by Brentarian 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzwald Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 hours ago, Sid Pokey said: Still don't get why they're only 3V though. Is that what power adapters put out when there's no load? You should get 5 (or slightly more) Volts out from the USB power brick with no load. Perhaps your power bricks are "smart" and only do PD or IQ charging. Those features require "smarts" on the receiving end to negotiate the voltage and current. Or maybe the cable is not good. Check the resistance from USB to DIN ends for the power and ground wires as mentioned above Anything above a few ohms is not good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 8 hours ago, mozzwald said: Anything above a few ohms is not good. No, even a few ohms would reduce the input current significantly, on such a short cable I would expect at worst a few mill-Ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I've always made my own using Canakit 2.5A Raspberry Pi power adapters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Pokey Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 (edited) 21 hours ago, Overange said: The only other thing to try is to measure the voltage coming out of your power adapters Basically across pins 1 and 4 If you get 5 volts, the next things to check is the resistance on your cable. Check you have no continuity or any reading of any kind across + and - Measure the resistance from + on the USB to the + on the DIN. Measure the resistance from - on the USB to the - on the DIN. They should ideally be dead short zero ohms. You have pointed the way to the solution. So thank you. It is the cable that's the problem. It's wired incorrectly. I'd tested it for continuity and polarity, but I did not consider that they would have wired the wrong pins up. Ground is wired to USB pin 2 rather than pin 4 as should be. Once upon a time I would wire my own cables up. But eyesight and a steady hand is not what it used to be, so figured I'd buy one from someone less likely to make a mess of it than I probably would now. Alas, so much for that idea. Bit shoddy. What I have learned here that even with power adapters, the data pins are still connected. That's what's giving the resistance down to circa 3v. Moral of the story, if you buy a ready made cable, test it before using it. Edited April 2 by Sid Pokey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woj Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Unbelievable! For me this seriously undermines the vendor's credibility, some cables wrongly wired can do a lot of damage. Similar story, one of two UAVs I once bought had the main connector soldered in front side back, making the board effectively unusable without resolderig the connector. That was even worse, because it should have failed basic visual inspection... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 33 minutes ago, Sid Pokey said: You have pointed the way to the solution. So thank you. It is the cable that's the problem. It's wired incorrectly. I'd tested it for continuity and polarity, but I did not consider that they would have wired the wrong pins up. Ground is wired to USB pin 2 rather than pin 4 as should be. Once upon a time I would wire my own cables up. But eyesight and a steady hand is not what it used to be, so figured I'd buy one from someone less likely to make a mess of it than I probably would now. Alas, so much for that idea. Bit shoddy. What I have learned here that even with power adapters, the data pins are still connected. That's what's giving the resistance down to circa 3v. Moral of the story, if you buy a ready made cable, test it before using it. Very interesting. Worth contacting cool novelties as maybe part of a faulty batch. I've bought many many of these very cables and never, ever seen an issue with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, woj said: Unbelievable! For me this seriously undermines the vendor's credibility, some cables wrongly wired can do a lot of damage. Similar story, one of two UAVs I once bought had the main connector soldered in front side back, making the board effectively unusable without resolderig the connector. That was even worse, because it should have failed basic visual inspection... Cool novelties, afaik, don't make the cables themselves. They buy in from a supplier. Never seen an issue before so this could just be a faulty batch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzwald Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 13 hours ago, TGB1718 said: even a few ohms would reduce the input current significantly, on such a short cable I would expect at worst a few mill-Ohms. indeed, but I have seen some junky meters test leads show ohms. best to touch the leads together and find "0" before testing the components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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