What do you think of the Atari 2600+ at the moment...

[+bent_pin]

45 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I've played a lot of videogames with Sanwa Joysticks and Competition Pro sticks. I just want to feel a CX40+ with really light micro switches. 

 

Tell you what we'll do. I'm going to find some time and do it, if you want you can be CX40+M chief tester. I'll send you prototypes and if it's a goer Ill do everything I can to bring it to market.

Oh, you bet your brass! I'll start picking out games that require different handling of the CX40 and make a rubric for grading them.

[+bent_pin]

54 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I've played a lot of videogames with Sanwa Joysticks and Competition Pro sticks. I just want to feel a CX40+ with really light micro switches. 

 

Tell you what we'll do. I'm going to find some time and do it, if you want you can be CX40+M chief tester. I'll send you prototypes and if it's a goer Ill do everything I can to bring it to market.

And cheers to you. You just made my day.

[Ben from Plaion]

12 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

Oh, you bet your brass! I'll start picking out games that require different handling of the CX40 and make a rubric for grading them.

Ok we'll start tomorrow.

[+bent_pin]

2 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Ok we'll start tomorrow.

Awesome. I have 2 days off. I'm going to put in a bit of time on it now. PM me or start a thread when you're ready, whichever you prefer.

[Dr Karnov]

10 hours ago, bent_pin said:

No such thing as too loud. I want my controller clicks to wake the neighbors.

I agree with this!!

 

More clicky, more good!

[MarcinJ]

10 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I have prototyped a CX40+ micro switched Joystick and it was very very good, certainly a big improvement in directional movement feel over the regular CX40+. Of course, it's a far way from that original authentic feel of the CX40. The CX40+ mimicking the CX40 has been well received via community feedback and above expectation sales and that it sets a precedent, it hits a default standard you can build out from. I think that further different models of Joysticks and Gamepads like a micro switched CX40+ version are warranted because of this.

 

There is certainly enough potential buyers of a micro switched version of the CX40+M (provisional name!) to make it worthwhile 

 

It's just me finding the time to do it. I'd need to really finesse the design and that takes a lot of thought and back and forth with the factory. For example, I thought the prototype had switches that were too solid and definate, too loud! I would want to test the feel of the difference in resistance to directional presses with lighter switches like how a Sanwa JTF sticks feel over the prototypes heavier switches.

 

Plus theres things that you need to look at like the throw distance of the Joystick and the length of the activation point of a directional movement press. It's these differences that matter.

 

We'll see, thanks

 

 

Any chance to get CX40+ for left-handed guys like me? Especially wireless version would be great

[Dr Karnov]

10 hours ago, bent_pin said:

Oh, you bet your brass! I'll start picking out games that require different handling of the CX40 and make a rubric for grading them.

Which games are you planning to test with?

[+Fred_M]

14 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I have prototyped a CX40+ micro switched Joystick and it was very very good, certainly a big improvement in directional movement feel over the regular CX40+. Of course, it's a far way from that original authentic feel of the CX40. The CX40+ mimicking the CX40 has been well received via community feedback and above expectation sales and that it sets a precedent, it hits a default standard you can build out from. I think that further different models of Joysticks and Gamepads like a micro switched CX40+ version are warranted because of this.

 

There is certainly enough potential buyers of a micro switched version of the CX40+M (provisional name!) to make it worthwhile 

 

It's just me finding the time to do it. I'd need to really finesse the design and that takes a lot of thought and back and forth with the factory. For example, I thought the prototype had switches that were too solid and definate, too loud! I would want to test the feel of the difference in resistance to directional presses with lighter switches like how a Sanwa JTF sticks feel over the prototypes heavier switches.

 

Plus theres things that you need to look at like the throw distance of the Joystick and the length of the activation point of a directional movement press. It's these differences that matter.

 

We'll see, thanks

 

 

A CX40 with micro switchs would be great! The current CX40+ is not bad (especially compared to the CXstick, the joystick that came with the400 mini), but for my taste it is a bit too stiff.

 

Normally I use this old Suzo Arcade joystick.

 

It has micro switches, plays perfectly (for me) and is not stiff at all. Over here in Holland this joystick was very popular in the 80s and 90s.

 

As for current available joysticks, I have this one and it plays very well too: https://retroradionics.com/ArcadeR-9-pin-ATARI-standard-Joystick-With-new-extra-soft-and-durable-cable-p168982750

 

A friend of mine bought some "fake" Chinese CX40 joysticks over a year ago, they have microswitches too and I like them very much. So there are Chinese factories out there that make CX40s with micro switches already.

 

[Ben from Plaion]

13 hours ago, bent_pin said:

Awesome. I have 2 days off. I'm going to put in a bit of time on it now. PM me or start a thread when you're ready, whichever you prefer.

Oh dude, this stuff takes forever. I've emailed the factory and asked them for some options to the existing design - lighter switches and different gates (square and octagonal), there is a lot to do even with that, source and choose switches, check the pricing!, then get a CAD designer to rework the PCB for different gates, PCB designer will probably have to amend the PCB footprints to accomodate new gates and amend the copper traces. Then it all needs all the parts bringing together (3D print plastic shell, PCB prototype, battery, spring, elastomers, wiring) and assembling. 

 

I'm going over next month to the factory and they'll probably have them ready for me to test, after I test them I'll send them to you to give them a good workout. We then go from there.

[Ben from Plaion]

@bent_pin Spent half hour looking at switches today, heavy resistance (current prototype), Sanwa switches and very light (old prototype)

[+bent_pin]

18 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Oh dude, this stuff takes forever. I've emailed the factory and asked them for some options to the existing design - lighter switches and different gates (square and octagonal), there is a lot to do even with that, source and choose switches, check the pricing!, then get a CAD designer to rework the PCB for different gates, PCB designer will probably have to amend the PCB footprints to accomodate new gates and amend the copper traces. Then it all needs all the parts bringing together (3D print plastic shell, PCB prototype, battery, spring, elastomers, wiring) and assembling. 

 

I'm going over next month to the factory and they'll probably have them ready for me to test, after I test them I'll send them to you to give them a good workout. We then go from there.

Sounds good. I didn't figure it'd be an overnight process by any means. I'm just working on the games list and how to grade based on each game.

 

I have a joystick here that I wouldn't mind sending to you. It's inexpensive but a real goer looks similar to the design that you posted in March, I believe, but by dissecting it, you may find an unexpected cost cutting measure or performance enhancer. Cost being the key to making this a successful venture. 

[+bent_pin]

5 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

@bent_pin Spent half hour looking at switches today, heavy resistance (current prototype), Sanwa switches and very light (old prototype)

On that middle model, the one without the levers over the switches, how to you find that it works transitioning to and from diagonal positions?  Looks like it might have had a 4-way template attached.

[+sramirez2008]

18 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

There is certainly enough potential buyers of a micro switched version of the CX40+M (provisional name!) to make it worthwhile 

If you build them, we will buy them. I prefer a micro switched joystick myself. If Atari decides to sell a new version of the CX-10s, the cherry on the top would be to include a new hex disc too.

[Defender_2600]

59 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Oh dude, this stuff takes forever. I've emailed the factory and asked them for some options to the existing design - lighter switches and different gates (square and octagonal), there is a lot to do even with that, source and choose switches, check the pricing!, then get a CAD designer to rework the PCB for different gates, PCB designer will probably have to amend the PCB footprints to accomodate new gates and amend the copper traces. Then it all needs all the parts bringing together (3D print plastic shell, PCB prototype, battery, spring, elastomers, wiring) and assembling. 

 

I'm going over next month to the factory and they'll probably have them ready for me to test, after I test them I'll send them to you to give them a good workout. We then go from there.

 

Amazing stuff Ben, you continue to amaze me.

 

I see you mentioned "battery" so I assume it should be wireless. I hope you will also make a wired version, for a few reasons.

 

First of all the latency, no matter how well designed it is you will always have some latency. This joystick, having micro switches, also appeals to a more demanding audience and could compete with some arcade sticks, so I think a wired version, zero latency, has a market.

Another reason, longevity. Batteries fail, especially if you don't use the joystick regularly and leave it for a period of time with the battery completely dead. For people who don't have much time to play and have other consoles to split their free time with, dead batteries that then fail are a real pain.

 

Finally there is that nostalgia factor that for some people makes a wireless joystick too modern.

 

I think if both wireless and wired were available (at least in the initial run) everyone would be happy. And I think the same about a new Trackball, in case you want to do it one day. Just my opinion and best wishes for this new joystick!

[Ben from Plaion]

2 hours ago, bent_pin said:

On that middle model, the one without the levers over the switches, how to you find that it works transitioning to and from diagonal positions?  Looks like it might have had a 4-way template attached.

Indeed, look at the video 7 seconds in on the left is a clear piece of plastic, that's the 4 way gate for the middle one

[Ben from Plaion]

2 hours ago, bent_pin said:

Sounds good. I didn't figure it'd be an overnight process by any means. I'm just working on the games list and how to grade based on each game.

 

I have a joystick here that I wouldn't mind sending to you. It's inexpensive but a real goer looks similar to the design that you posted in March, I believe, but by dissecting it, you may find an unexpected cost cutting measure or performance enhancer. Cost being the key to making this a successful venture. 

I think that joystick looks like a zippystick. I've got one.

 

Thing is the prototype is fundamentally fine. It's the feel of the switches themselves I believe is the key, along with finessing throw distance. We have the constraints of the design of the CX40 shaft and rubber outer to consider.

 

All good fun anyway

[+jeremiahjt]

20 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I've played a lot of videogames with Sanwa Joysticks and Competition Pro sticks. I just want to feel a CX40+ with really light micro switches. 

 

Tell you what we'll do. I'm going to find some time and do it, if you want you can be CX40+M chief tester. I'll send you prototypes and if it's a goer Ill do everything I can to bring it to market.

 

2 hours ago, sramirez2008 said:

If you build them, we will buy them. I prefer a micro switched joystick myself. If Atari decides to sell a new version of the CX-10s, the cherry on the top would be to include a new hex disc too.

If this does come to fruition, maybe it could be a CX10+ instead of a CX40+M. With the hex disc of course.

[+bent_pin]

7 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Indeed, look at the video 7 seconds in on the left is a clear piece of plastic, that's the 4 way gate for the middle one

Ultimately, the plan is an 8-way controller though? Just testing the switches?

 

4 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I think that joystick looks like a zippystick. I've got one.

 

Thing is the prototype is fundamentally fine. It's the feel of the switches themselves I believe is the key, along with finessing throw distance. We have the constraints of the design of the CX40 shaft and rubber outer to consider.

 

All good fun anyway

Give the constraints, the only way to change the throw distance is to raise and lower the switching plane within the base and to increase or decrease the distance from switch to shaft. Given the battery and wire placement, you are probably just limited to varying the switch to shaft distance. This could be achieved by adding a plastic bumper gromet on the outside of the shaft. Including 4 or 5 sizes of this gromet would allow different throws to be tested on the same prototype. That way the only thing you'd have to vary between prototypes would be the switches themselves.

[Ben from Plaion]

1 hour ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

Amazing stuff Ben, you continue to amaze me.

 

I see you mentioned "battery" so I assume it should be wireless. I hope you will also make a wired version, for a few reasons.

 

First of all the latency, no matter how well designed it is you will always have some latency. This joystick, having micro switches, also appeals to a more demanding audience and could compete with some arcade sticks, so I think a wired version, zero latency, has a market.

Another reason, longevity. Batteries fail, especially if you don't use the joystick regularly and leave it for a period of time with the battery completely dead. For people who don't have much time to play and have other consoles to split their free time with, dead batteries that then fail are a real pain.

 

Finally there is that nostalgia factor that for some people makes a wireless joystick too modern.

 

I think if both wireless and wired were available (at least in the initial run) everyone would be happy. And I think the same about a new Trackball, in case you want to do it one day. Just my opinion and best wishes for this new joystick!

Hmm valid points. It's the path of least resistance to build both I agree, however it's down to the break even point which consists of fixed price start up costs, like tooling and  prototyping and then the per unit COGs. 

[+bent_pin]

Bumper grommet 

 

[Ben from Plaion]

14 minutes ago, jeremiahjt said:

 

If this does come to fruition, maybe it could be a CX10+ instead of a CX40+M. With the hex disc of course.

In my opinion the CX10 needs to be kept in the back pocket for the time being.

 

We keep to CX40 for this one

[+bent_pin]

1 minute ago, Ben from Plaion said:

In my opinion the CX10 needs to be kept in the back pocket for the time being.

 

We keep to CX40 for this one

Hmmm, this sounds cryptically promising. Seems like the + should be the last character as it is in the rest of the line. Perhaps the CX40M+?

[Ben from Plaion]

14 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

Ultimately, the plan is an 8-way controller though? Just testing the switches?

 

Give the constraints, the only way to change the throw distance is to raise and lower the switching plane within the base and to increase or decrease the distance from switch to shaft. Given the battery and wire placement, you are probably just limited to varying the switch to shaft distance. This could be achieved by adding a plastic bumper gromet on the outside of the shaft. Including 4 or 5 sizes of this gromet would allow different throws to be tested on the same prototype. That way the only thing you'd have to vary between prototypes would be the switches themselves.

Well the 4 switches and 4 gate (square) still provide 8 way directional input. My preference in arcade sticks is 8 gate (octagonal). It's just something to consider as 8 gate gives more definate notches for up, down, left, right and diagonal movements.

 

The throw distance, yes you're right, but for us the size of the joystick shaft (white tube on the left prototype in the video) and distance of the micro switches to the shaft governs throw distance.

[Ben from Plaion]

9 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

Hmmm, this sounds cryptically promising. Seems like the + should be the last character as it is in the rest of the line. Perhaps the CX40M+?

Maybe but precedence set with the title of the wireless controllers, which is CX40+ Wireless.

 

So CX40+ Microswitch is natural, but then this doesn't quite work if you have a wired and wireless version.

[Defender_2600]

58 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Hmm valid points. It's the path of least resistance to build both I agree, however it's down to the break even point which consists of fixed price start up costs, like tooling and  prototyping and then the per unit COGs. 

 

If a wired version isn't possible, an alternative would be to use AA (or AAA) batteries like the Atari Flashback CX40 does, as well as Xbox 360 and Xbox One controllers, etc. These batteries will always be available. Just a thought.

Edited 21 hours ago by Defender_2600