2600+ "other capabilities"

[Zonie]

16 hours ago, JetmanUK said:

A thought just struck me.

 

The 2600 Plus doesn't have a cart slot that is compatible with 5200 games, we all know that, so no classic 5200 games. But there's no reason that 5200 games couldn't be available on a 2600/7800 is there? The games get dumped into memory anyway, all you need is a 5200 emulator in the firmware. 

 

Now I get that it would be confusing to say it supports 5200 games as the classic carts wouldn't fit. So I wouldn't recommend selling individual 5200 branded games, I am thinking of things like a Centipede collection. It could have 2600, 5200 and 7800 versions on the cart. Other collections too. 5200 games will be small so they load fast enough, they don't require any more hardware grunt to emulate, they would work just fine on the 2600 Plus hardware*. 

 

The only hurdle is to make sure that no-one thinks that they are are getting a cart which would slot into their original 5200, but making 5200 games part of a compilation would make that pretty clear anyway. A mix of two or three consoles (any two or three from 2600, 5200, 7800) games on one cart is obviously targeted at the 2600 Plus. A sticker on the box could clarify this. 

 

This could be expanded further, how large are Lynx games? If small enough to dump quickly they could also be added to compilation carts. How about Atari 8 bit games? Could be a fun compilation. All just a thought. 

 

*One thing came to mind as I wrote this, the analogue controller, well they could sell one. But I guess most games would work on just a 7800 joypad anyway? 

 

EDIT:

Of course they could sell a cart slot adapter, but that is more things to manufacture so that may not be desirable, how big is the demand? I would think multicarts which include 5200 games which work with a 7800 joypad would be a low enough bar to be financially viable.

Just make it compatible with one of these...

[LynxJagLunatic]

On 7/3/2024 at 6:14 AM, Ben from Plaion said:

I dont recall, but your scenarios around bus width and code sound familiar. As soon as I found out that the dumper transfer is very slow and cant be changed, I stopped thinking about it and moved on.

Thank you Ben for what you are your team have done. I’m loving my 2600+.

[Ben from Plaion]

On 7/30/2024 at 11:41 AM, JetmanUK said:

A thought just struck me.

 

The 2600 Plus doesn't have a cart slot that is compatible with 5200 games, we all know that, so no classic 5200 games. But there's no reason that 5200 games couldn't be available on a 2600/7800 is there? The games get dumped into memory anyway, all you need is a 5200 emulator in the firmware. 

 

Now I get that it would be confusing to say it supports 5200 games as the classic carts wouldn't fit. So I wouldn't recommend selling individual 5200 branded games, I am thinking of things like a Centipede collection. It could have 2600, 5200 and 7800 versions on the cart. Other collections too. 5200 games will be small so they load fast enough, they don't require any more hardware grunt to emulate, they would work just fine on the 2600 Plus hardware*. 

 

The only hurdle is to make sure that no-one thinks that they are are getting a cart which would slot into their original 5200, but making 5200 games part of a compilation would make that pretty clear anyway. A mix of two or three consoles (any two or three from 2600, 5200, 7800) games on one cart is obviously targeted at the 2600 Plus. A sticker on the box could clarify this. 

 

This could be expanded further, how large are Lynx games? If small enough to dump quickly they could also be added to compilation carts. How about Atari 8 bit games? Could be a fun compilation. All just a thought. 

 

*One thing came to mind as I wrote this, the analogue controller, well they could sell one. But I guess most games would work on just a 7800 joypad anyway? 

 

EDIT:

Of course they could sell a cart slot adapter, but that is more things to manufacture so that may not be desirable, how big is the demand? I would think multicarts which include 5200 games which work with a 7800 joypad would be a low enough bar to be financially viable.

Thanks @JetmanUK, we read all the suggestions from AA and yours and other contributors posts are often brought up in discussion.

 

I'm not against the 5200 idea at all but there is potentially so much more 2600 and 7800 games, machines and accessories to exploit. Plus I'm still not at a point with the 2600+ where I think its done and we're searching for new stuff to make (like a 5200 adapter), the backlog of new Atari product for the 2600+ range is real. Wade Rosen publicly said recently there is more product on the way for the 2600+.

 

I played on a new 7800 game proof of concept earlier in the week and there is an NES version of the game, this 7800 version just beat the NES version to a pulp. I thought to myself if we play this right Atari could retrospectivly win the 7800 vs NES console battle. Pipe dream maybe!

[MarcinJ]

19 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I played on a new 7800 game proof of concept earlier in the week and there is an NES version of the game, this 7800 version just beat the NES

Great to see that you’re working on new titles. Although I like the idea of @JetmanUK, to re-issue for instance Dig Dug on one cart with all three formats, I think we need new titles as well. 
I was a bit worried that there will be only a few rereleases and Atari will call it off. Of course it is hard to predict the market, but I hope it continues to be profitable and way more is coming.

 

Ps. Now it is clear that adding 7800 capabilities to 2600+ was a brilliant move. 

 

[Ben from Plaion]

6 minutes ago, MarcinJ said:

Great to see that you’re working on new titles. Although I like the idea of @JetmanUK, to re-issue for instance Dig Dug on one cart with all three formats, I think we need new titles as well. 
I was a bit worried that there will be only a few rereleases and Atari will call it off. Of course it is hard to predict the market, but I hope it continues to be profitable and way more is coming.

 

Ps. Now it is clear that adding 7800 capabilities to 2600+ was a brilliant move. 

 

Yeah, its looking good, there are plans (which can be cancelled) for new stuff for at least a year. 

 

You know I tried everything to convince Atari to drop the 7800 compatibility cause it was not easy to implement and I wanted to get the 2600+ out. They werent having any of it. Caused the 2600+ to be delayed. In the end though they were 100% right -turned out to be the best thing for the machine. 

[DEANJIMMY]

20 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Yeah, its looking good, there are plans (which can be cancelled) for new stuff for at least a year. 

 

You know I tried everything to convince Atari to drop the 7800 compatibility cause it was not easy to implement and I wanted to get the 2600+ out. They werent having any of it. Caused the 2600+ to be delayed. In the end though they were 100% right -turned out to be the best thing for the machine. 

New 7800 games are a great way to go, much better than to put extra stuff on 2600 carts in my opinion.

On a recent retro event, people at my age loved to see the old 2600 games and compare NTSC with PAL versions on the 2600+ but their kids loved to play 7800 games like Bently Bear's Crystal Quest, Dark Chambers or Super Mario Bros 🤗

 

[JetmanUK]

2 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Thanks @JetmanUK, we read all the suggestions from AA and yours and other contributors posts are often brought up in discussion.

 

I'm not against the 5200 idea at all but there is potentially so much more 2600 and 7800 games, machines and accessories to exploit. Plus I'm still not at a point with the 2600+ where I think its done and we're searching for new stuff to make (like a 5200 adapter), the backlog of new Atari product for the 2600+ range is real. Wade Rosen publicly said recently there is more product on the way for the 2600+.

 

I played on a new 7800 game proof of concept earlier in the week and there is an NES version of the game, this 7800 version just beat the NES version to a pulp. I thought to myself if we play this right Atari could retrospectivly win the 7800 vs NES console battle. Pipe dream maybe!

Thank you @Ben from Plaion.

 

It was just something that popped in my head, I often have random thoughts about the hobbies I am into, so I thought I'd share. 😊

 

To be fair I totally agree, I think stick with what is already going on and perfect that. With regards to the 5200, I have never even played on one so I have zero nostalgia for it. 🤣 But others love it and I thought a multi generational collection was a fun idea.  

Edited August 1 by JetmanUK

[TwoShedsWilson]

2 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

we're searching for new stuff to make (like a 5200 adapter

I welcome all of the new stuff Atari is doing. It's an exciting time to love this stuff.

 

If the 5200 adapter were to become a thing and by extension a controller you would win the hearts of a lot of people. I realize the 5200 market is vanishingly small, but some of the games on the 5200 were easily the best versions available at that time and they deserve some love.

[tradyblix]

4 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I played on a new 7800 game proof of concept earlier in the week and there is an NES version of the game, this 7800 version just beat the NES version to a pulp. I thought to myself if we play this right Atari could retrospectivly win the 7800 vs NES console battle. Pipe dream maybe!

That's the kind of stuff I like to hear. It's actually pretty rare that a company actually wants to support their product properly these days.

 

Was it... Bubble Bobble 😁

Edited August 1 by tradyblix

[+Intellivision Master]

19 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I'm not against the 5200 idea at all but there is potentially so much more 2600 and 7800 games, machines and accessories to exploit. Plus I'm still not at a point with the 2600+ where I think its done and we're searching for new stuff to make (like a 5200 adapter), the backlog of new Atari product for the 2600+ range is real. Wade Rosen publicly said recently there is more product on the way for the 2600+.

Hopefully a 5200 adapter does come out.  Also, it's good to hear that more product is on the way for the 2600 Plus.

[+D Train]

On 8/1/2024 at 2:33 PM, Ben from Plaion said:

You know I tried everything to convince Atari to drop the 7800 compatibility cause it was not easy to implement and I wanted to get the 2600+ out. They werent having any of it. Caused the 2600+ to be delayed. In the end though they were 100% right -turned out to be the best thing for the machine. 

I have been wrong this way about a number of different things, and always find it very rewarding!

[Maztr_0n]

On 8/1/2024 at 12:51 PM, Ben from Plaion said:

 

 

I'm not against the 5200 idea at all but there is potentially so much more 2600 and 7800 games, machines and accessories to exploit. Plus I'm still not at a point with the 2600+ where I think its done and we're searching for new stuff to make (like a 5200 adapter), the backlog of new Atari product for the 2600+ range is real. Wade Rosen publicly said recently there is more product on the way for the 2600+.

 

I played on a new 7800 game proof of concept earlier in the week and there is an NES version of the game, this 7800 version just beat the NES version to a pulp. I thought to myself if we play this right Atari could retrospectivly win the 7800 vs NES console battle. Pipe dream maybe!

The 7800 is also coming for the Master System and Mega Drive's run in Brazil... metaphorically...

[Maztr_0n]

On 8/1/2024 at 5:23 PM, tradyblix said:

That's the kind of stuff I like to hear. It's actually pretty rare that a company actually wants to support their product properly these days.

 

Was it... Bubble Bobble 😁

ooooo booooooooy, speculation!!!!

i wonder what this mystery NES game could be...

[Maztr_0n]

On 8/1/2024 at 2:55 PM, JetmanUK said:

Thank you @Ben from Plaion.

 

It was just something that popped in my head, I often have random thoughts about the hobbies I am into, so I thought I'd share. 😊

 

To be fair I totally agree, I think stick with what is already going on and perfect that. With regards to the 5200, I have never even played on one so I have zero nostalgia for it. 🤣 But others love it and I thought a multi generational collection was a fun idea.  

 

 

Well heres my two cents... i think i'd wanna see a 5200+ instead if the timeline allows for it to co-exist, however i do think said system should also be an Atari 8-Bit+, keyboard and all!

 

Also i know i'm the Ikari obsessor but, i swear Ikari for the XE was announced in the 80's and never came out, i know commando was a similar situation with a basically fully finished prototype available but gosh, i wonder what that would've been like, i'm honestly a big fan of all of the conversions of Ikari, like how the C64 version is oddly gory for some reason with only your character being the gorefest...

 

One has to wonder about XE Ikari, POKEY sound but with the 2600 [or any one button joystick] versions control scheme... sometimes i wonder what the vaults of atari contain... or probably moreso the vaults of ex atari devs. BUT STILL...

[tradyblix]

19 hours ago, Maztr_0n said:

ooooo booooooooy, speculation!!!!

i wonder what this mystery NES game could be...

Well, it's not Ikari Warriors. We know that.

 

It would be cool if it was victory road.

 

Because we only have the nes port, and I think the seventy eight hundred could outdo it.

 

COME ON LETS FIGHT

[Maztr_0n]

1 hour ago, tradyblix said:

Well, it's not Ikari Warriors. We know that.

 

It would be cool if it was victory road.

 

Because we only have the nes port, and I think the seventy eight hundred could outdo it.

 

COME ON LETS FIGHT

LETS SHOW SOME GUTS!!!!!

[tradyblix]

On 8/4/2024 at 8:07 PM, Maztr_0n said:

ooooo booooooooy, speculation!!!!

i wonder what this mystery NES game could be...

With our luck it's probably something like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

[Maztr_0n]

1 hour ago, tradyblix said:

With our luck it's probably something like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

oddly, i dont know if thats truly a bad thing...

at least in terms of one of those Art-Games, it truly is a fighting-inner-demons simulator. And hey they could put another "adventure" title on the lineup 🤣

[tradyblix]

13 hours ago, Maztr_0n said:

oddly, i dont know if thats truly a bad thing...

at least in terms of one of those Art-Games, it truly is a fighting-inner-demons simulator. And hey they could put another "adventure" title on the lineup 🤣

I think you should watch the angry video game nerd episode on it lol.

[+Fred_M]

On 8/1/2024 at 7:51 PM, Ben from Plaion said:

I'm not against the 5200 idea at all but there is potentially so much more 2600 and 7800 games, machines and accessories to exploit.

Personally I do not think a 5200 adapter is a commercial viable option. The 5200 was not a big commercial success and was only sold in the US. The original game library is very small and the cartridges are hard to find, especially outside the US. The 2600+ is a niche product and a 5200 adapter will be even more niche unless Plaion is willing to republish a lot of 5200 games outside the US too.

 

The 5200 is almost fully compatible with the Atari 8-bit computer series (400/800/XL/XE), so it would make way more sense to create a cartridge adapter to play Atari 8-bit cartridges. The Atari 8-bit cartridges were available world wide, the library is way bigger and the games can be played with a normal (CX40) joystick. But.... Atari already licensed such a system to Retro Games Ltd with The400 mini....

 

The 7800 is the most powerfull system of the three, so for me it make sense to focus on games for the 7800. Plaion needs to make some money to be able to support the 2600+, I think a 5200 adapter can not be profitable.

Edited August 7 by Fred_M

[MrChickenz]

3 minutes ago, Fred_M said:

Personally I do not think a 5200 adapter is a commercial viable option. The 5200 was not a big commercial success and was only sold in the US. The original game library is very small and the cartridges are hard to find, especially outside the US. The 2600+ is a niche product and a 5200 adapter will be even more niche unless Plaion is willing to republish a lot of 5200 games outside the US too.

 

The 5200 is almost fully compatible with the Atari 8-bit computer series (400/800/XL/XE), so it would make way more sense to create a cartridge adapter to play Atari 8-bit cartridges. The Atari 8-bit cartridges were available world wide, the library is way bigger and the games can be played with a normal (CX40) joystick. But.... Atari already licensed such a system to Retro Games Ltd with The400 mini....

 

The 7800 is the most powerfull system of the three, so for me it make sense to focus on games for the 7800. Plaion needs to make some money to be able to support the 2600+, I think a 5200 adapter can not be profitable.

Well said!

[JetmanUK]

13 minutes ago, Fred_M said:

Personally I do not think a 5200 adapter is a commercial viable option. The 5200 was not a big commercial success and was only sold in the US. The original game library is very small and the cartridges are hard to find, especially outside the US. The 2600+ is a niche product and a 5200 adapter will be even more niche unless Plaion is willing to republish a lot of 5200 games outside the US too.

 

The 5200 is almost fully compatible with the Atari 8-bit computer series (400/800/XL/XE), so it would make way more sense to create a cartridge adapter to play Atari 8-bit cartridges. The Atari 8-bit cartridges were available world wide, the library is way bigger and the games can be played with a normal (CX40) joystick. But.... Atari already licensed such a system to Retro Games Ltd with The400 mini....

 

The 7800 is the most powerfull system of the three, so for me it make sense to focus on games for the 7800. Plaion needs to make some money to be able to support the 2600+, I think a 5200 adapter can not be profitable.

Totally agree, this is why I had the idea of throw some 5200 games on a multi gen compilation cart for the 2600 Plus only. For those that want 5200 games they'd be getting some, and at no additonal hardware cost. Atari/Plaion would only have a software dev cost for the emulation.

 

But, as I have said, this was me thinking about others, I have zero nostalgia for a machine I have never even used. 🤣

 

I think that the 7800 has a lot of untapped potential, and POKEY style audio could be incuded even if the chip was not present in the cart. I envsion that such a cart when played on original hardware would utilise the TIA for 2600 sound effects instead. 'Enhanced sound when played on a 2600 Plus' could be noted on the box. Off on a tangent there, another thought that popped into my head.🤷🏻🤣🤟🏻

Edited August 7 by JetmanUK

[+Fred_M]

7 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

I think that the 7800 has a lot of untapped potential, and POKEY style audio could be incuded even if the chip was not present in the cart

There are Pokey "clones" made by various people/small companies. Examples are the "Hokey" and the "Pokeymax". If Plaion really wants to, they can contact the creators of these clones and create a larger production run. It is possible to put these in 7800 cartridges so they will be compatible with old 7800 consoles too 😉 Many homebrew releases already have one of those chips inside.

Edited August 7 by Fred_M

[JetmanUK]

16 minutes ago, Fred_M said:

There are Pokey "clones" made by various people/small companies. Examples are the "Hokey" and the "Pokeymax". If Plaion really wants to, they can contact the creators of these clones and create a larger production run. It is possible to put these in 7800 cartridges so they will be compatible with old 7800 consoles too 😉

That would be nicer...

I was thinking from a business point of view, cost - a cheaper cart as no extra chip, and marketing - a reason to own a 2600 Plus. I would rather have POKEY type sound available somewhere than not at all.

 

I find TIA sound jarring on 7800 games, whereas it's endearing on 2600 games. If my suggested solution meant improved sound when played on particular hardware then I think it's a good comprimise.

 

You'd have to think of it as a bonus feature when played on certain hardware rather than a feature that has been taken away, as there wouldn't be a chip present in the cart to offer the feature anyway.

 

This kind of thing has occured in gaming for decades, software running different features on hardware which supports it. The first thing that comes to mind is AY multichannel sound when you play a Spectrum game on a 128K model, load the exact same game and you get Beeper one channel sound on a 48K model, that goes back to the mid 80's.

 

PC games too, if your graphics card can handle it you can ramp up the resolution, graphical features, the FPS.

 

I just wouldn't want Atari to write off the idea of improved sound in 7800 games if they were not willing to spend the money on a chip, my proposed solution allows it. You already get improved image quality on a 2600 Plus anway.

 

What do you think @Ben from Plaion?

Edited August 7 by JetmanUK

[MrChickenz]

I’ve never had a 5200 myself but the controllers wouldn’t work anyway I don’t believe. It’s not the DB9 and you would need the keypad as well. I’m guessing some games would need the keypad? Not sure.

 

 

Edited August 7 by MrChickenz