Scott Stilphen Posted November 11, 2001 Author Share Posted November 11, 2001 Just tried it. Heheh...pretty funny to see. When I first saw that "wall" in the game, I thought it was a glitch. It didn't look like one of the lower walls, and it didn't look like a rock "cave-in". It just looked like.....crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 11, 2001 Author Share Posted November 11, 2001 Tried to fix the YAR graphic, by adding the missing piece to the lower-left leg. What harm could one little "X" do.... So much for my plans to redraw the cave-in graphic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 Lol... My first attempt at this deal places you in the VOP at the start of the game, with a grappling hook that you can't drop! 13d3 - 63 13d7 - 5f 13db - 5b 13e1 - 55 13e7 - 4f 1408 - 2e 1420 - 16 1426 - 10 Change all to 00...Oh marshmellers, I thought I was close with that one. Change 1579, 1585, and 1589 to zeros to disable the Spider's "web" (original values are 20, 14, 10). Change 15F6, 15FC, and 1600 to zeros to disable the thieves' bullet-buying ability, but he still robs you (original values are 20, 1A, 16). Couldn't figure out what 1769, 176F, and 1777 do when disabled (they branch to $1787 in the code). [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: Nukey Shay ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 Oh, it makes the Ark's mesa be indicated in the map room -without- the headpiece (that'll save a bit of time, as you can win by making only one pass through the rooms). Not worth much though, as doing so only nets 17 "points" for the game. There is a good chance that the signature was added to the game code after it was completed...and twit's got the only proto. Any conventions coming to Mpls? [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: Nukey Shay ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videotwit Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Nukey Shay: There is a good chance that the signature was added to the game code after it was completed...and twit's got the only proto. Any conventions coming to Mpls? Nukey Shay- You don't happen to have a ROM dumper, do you? I'm pretty sure my proto is the same as the released version, but would happily dump it to let you all double-check it. It'd be easy since we apparently live so close to each other (BTW - where abouts do you live? I live in St. Louis Park, and work in downtown St. Paul). Otherwise, I can try to send the proto out to someone to dump -- I just thought it'd be easier and faster to do it locally. On the convention note... I don't know of any in Minneapolis, but there's going to be a new one in Milwaukee, WI next summer. Not too far, but a Twin Cities get-together might be fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Nope, I don't have one (which is why I mentioned the convention thing, as many people attend with such equipment...and I've heard that you are understandably apprehensive about sending it off to be dumped. Dunno if there would be a difference between the carts, but it would be fun to find out. BTW I used to live in St. Louis Park (and Monticello before that), now residing in Farmington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videotwit Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Nukey Shay: Nope, I don't have one (which is why I mentioned the convention thing, as many people attend with such equipment...and I've heard that you are understandably apprehensive about sending it off to be dumped. Dunno if there would be a difference between the carts, but it would be fun to find out. No, I've never really been apprehensive about it, just lazy... I've sent carts to Randy at Hozer to dump before, just because the ROMs weren't released, and this wouldn't be any different. I totally trust him. I'll send an email off to him tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Excellent! BTW...FC /B RAIDERS.BIN PROTO.BIN will list any differences between the two in DOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 Twit, that would be great if you could get yours dumped. I was planning on putting a call out to anybody who might have a proto of this game, as it's possible the JD graphic only existed in an earlier version. I seriously want to see this mystery solved, and every piece of info we can get would certainly help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Nukey Shay: Oh, it makes the Ark's mesa be indicated in the map room -without- the headpiece (that'll save a bit of time, as you can win by making only one pass through the rooms). Not worth much though, as doing so only nets 17 "points" for the game. That's about right - locating the Ark in the map room (with the headpiece) is worth 3.5 points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Interesting...the patch won't add the points even if the headpiece IS used. Might be able to figure out the scoring system after all. Regarding the signature, I'm particularly interested in that blank section in the commercial cart that runs from $19AC-$19C4 (just below the map room graphics & the "Yar"). Adding bytes here puts some of them in the Mesa side screen, but the game is unaffected (sound familiar?). They may have just been used as a visual aid when gliding over to the side during beta testing though. [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: Nukey Shay ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Just so you don't think I have abandoned the project, I thought I'd update everyone on my absolute lack of progress. I've been trying every possible way to end up in the valley with only the first bag of gold. Nothing has yielded results. I'm really hoping the tech folks who are on this will have more luck than I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Relax...I've been working on this since last summer and still getting no clues. Skipping branches only occured to me recently, but coming up with nothing using that method as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 Hang in there, Stan. I've been at it a bit longer Keep in mind, *Both HSW and JD confirmed the existence of it. *The EG photo is real. *A perfect score in the game has yet to be achieved. If there's something in the code, I'm confident Thomas and Nukey will find it. Plus, Twit has offered to have his proto dumped (thanks!), and I'm currently putting a call out to any/all proto owners to help us. [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 I think a time frame of almost a decade deserves to be referred to as something more significant than "a bit". When it's found, the solution is going to be so simple that we'll all start drinking heavily. j/k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Nukey Shay: Interesting...the patch won't add the points even if the headpiece IS used. Might be able to figure out the scoring system after all. That would be great. The scoring system is a bit....eccentric at times. Here's the notes I have on it: Adventure Points (AP) comprise the game's scoring system. The AP chart below is calculated by the number of "circles" on the pedestal in the Well of Souls. Each circle equals 1 AP. Start with = 6 use of Ankh = 2 use of parachute = .5 use of shovel (in mesa) = 2.5 locating Ark in maproom = 3.5 landing in mesa = 1 finding YAR = 1.5 finding Ark = 3.5 NO points for/use of: 2nd grenade (on secret wall) bribing lunatic bribing sheik with Chai coins magic flute headpiece hourglass key killing snakes recovering items from thieves revolver timepiece whip Points SUBTRACTED for -3.5 using secret exit in dungeon -1 whipping/shooting either master thief in VoP or tiny thieves -.5 blowing hole in Entrance room -.5 losing 1 life (none for 2nd life lost)- counted if Ark is found When you first turn the game on, the pedestal is at the very top, denoting a max score of 23. The highest I (or anyone I know) has scored is 20.5. [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 In other words, you only get points for actions that absolutely need to be done, and lose points for things that should not have to be done at all. Therefore, the actions that lose points should not have a connection with the signature, I think. The ones that cause no apparent change might have some hidden use connected to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Is there a way to lose the remaining .5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 *Hot off the scanner* Leonard Herman just sent me a good scan of the photo that appears in EG 11-82: and of the photo in the 3-84 issue: (I flipped it 180, since the photo appears upside-down in the magazine). [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Nukey Shay: In other words, you only get points for actions that absolutely need to be done, and lose points for things that should not have to be done at all. Therefore, the actions that lose points should not have a connection with the signature, I think. The ones that cause no apparent change might have some hidden use connected to them. Yes, with the exception of a few pieces (coins, whip). And locating the Ark in the maproom does require the key and headpiece, so they're not exactly "pointless" quote Is there a way to lose the remaining .5? I assume you mean blowing the hole in the Entrance room? Yep- use the headpiece to access the secret entrance to the Temple Entrance room via the Marketplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 I was pretty close with my fake screen shot, eh? Not bad for only having a poor photocopy to go by Though the screen dimensions with Z26 appear a little "squashed", and for some reason, the colors are slightly off (the VoP appears all green, instead of orange and green). [ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Nukey Shay: I think a time frame of almost a decade deserves to be referred to as something more significant than "a bit". Haha! Yeah, you can say that... quote When it's found, the solution is going to be so simple that we'll all start drinking heavily. j/k I'm buyin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 No, I meant is there a way to lose the .5 left over if you did all the "subtracting" actions and none of the "adding" actions. Since you begin with 6 and you can lose 5.5, it leaves .5 left. It would appear that the undiscovered action adds 2.5...that could be useful once the scoring routines are all found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmi Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Me and a friend played this game to death when we were younger tring to get a perfect score and the highest we both ever got was 21 it frustrated us to no end, then we thought that 21 had to be the top score and we stopped playing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 Not that I know of. Never looked at it that way before (to get a score of 0). From what I found, the lowest possible score is 1, since the -.5 is only counted if you solve the game. I can't claim my scoring chart is complete, or even accurate, since sometimes the pedestal may show only a 1/3" of a circle on the bottom- not every action is counted in half-points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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