Nukey Shay Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Lemmi-- Well, that would leave you half a circle above the rest of us BTW the bottom of the pedastal is only half a point. "Flying" Yar... Does anyone have a clue about the "3 things" that need to be in your inventory when you are inside the mesa? The shovel and the parachute are the only ones that I can think of. Actually, I've got none...since the shovel is only required if you intend to dig up the Ark**, and the chute must be dropped after you get there. ** In the film, Indy and Marcus allow the Ark to be "lost" again rather than let it be experimented with...does this have any significance? Do you go all that way and NOT dig it up, but reach an ending some other way? [ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: Nukey Shay ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Destroy the Ark with the second grenade? Excuse me, I'm rambling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Scott Stilphen: *Hot off the scanner* Thanks, that might help. I now mostly understand how i.E. the Lunatic graphics are stored and have started to decode all the other graphics. But without success The new screenshots don't look very different than we expected, so I should have found that logo already. But there are some other objects I can't identify. Does a complete inventory of all objects with screenshots exits? I'm not good at playing this game, so I can't make them all myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 After checking the screenshots (the more yellow one is smaller but better), I think the logo looks like this: code: XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXX X XXXX X X XX X X X XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXX This would exactly fit into the concept of storing graphics in Raider, because they are only allowed to be 7 bit (or pixels) wide and each row is displayed twice. So I don't think it's a fake, but maybe only inside the proto. Tonight I will try to find, if there is a pointer pointing at suspiciously empty graphic space. Maybe the code is still there and they only removed the data. Then I could patch the patch the data into the binary and at least prove there *was* an Easter Egg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Nukey Shay: "Flying" Yar... Does anyone have a clue about the "3 things" that need to be in your inventory when you are inside the mesa Nope. I can say it's possible to solve the game with all 3 Temple objects (Chai, Ankh, Hourglass) in your inventory. It takes some tricky playing to do, but I've done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Thomas Jentzsch: Tonight I will try to find, if there is a pointer pointing at suspiciously empty graphic space. Maybe the code is still there and they only removed the data. Hmm...that could be a very good possibility. If HSW or anyone wanted to remove it quickly for whatever reason, then the easiest way would be to just "erase" the graphics. Unless it was removed due to memory contraints, then he might have gone back and removed all the related code for it (I'd guess that wasn't the case, though). You might be onto something. If the "triggering" code is still there, then it might point to the space in the code as you suggested. In theory, you could trigger the graphics and never even know it! But I would think that it would still affect your score (unless that was disabled too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Thomas Jentzsch: But there are some other objects I can't identify. What other ones have you found? The only one I know of is that small key. quote Does a complete inventory of all objects with screenshots exits? I'm not good at playing this game, so I can't make them all myself. I'll have this made today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 I was just going to ask you if you knew how the scoring was kept (thanks Scott for reading my mind). Are you absolutely sure the JD initials give you the remaining points for the perfect score? I know it sounds logical if you have done everything else, but I was just considering all options. Since the other eggs contribute it would make some sense, but I'm working on some other theories.... One question: How do I get into the Temple without using the grenade? I know it involves the headpiece, but what do I do with it? Here's my latest junk theories: What if you lose all the points you can and do it by falling to the valley last, thus putting you in the valley with the lowest score possible? What if there is a certain point total at which the initials are displayed? ET needed 1 piece of candy for Elliot, what if this demands a score of 12 or something? I've been thinking a lot about the point system. How did you get two ankhs? As for the three items (could they be the second key, the second grenade and something else? What about 3 bags of gold? What about the key, the headpiece, and something else (all the parts you need to find the right mesa) like the hourglass (which has no real function thanks to the ankh?) Don't you get points for using chai to get to the Black Market? More questions than answers, Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videotwit Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 A quick update... Randy agreed to dump the RotLA proto, so I should have a ROM available for you guys within a week or so, I hope. I'll let you know when I have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjax Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 Sweet!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 StanJr-- The points for the remaining secret is just a theory...but it follows that you should score at least something for it. Since Indy drops down 2.5 circles when you win scoring every point known, I'd assume that there is a reason that the pedestal is that high to begin with. To enter the temple, select the headpiece and walk along the right-center area of the marketplace while pressing the controller button...you'll appear in the lower-left of the temple entrance. It might be worth a try to lose the last points as you fall into the VoP...but the points for losing lives are only subtracted if you finally reach the Ark. It is still up in the air as to what is required...but a precise score total could also be it (good theory!)...say by, getting all points EXCEPT the use of the Ankh. Once the signature was displayed, you could use the Ankh to get the remaining points before winning the game. Two Ankhs? Where was that posted? The three objects mentioned could be anything. According to HSW...they also need to be in the correct order in the inventory bar. No points for using the Chai...but this may be because the manual states that this is possible by "using the correct object"...i.e. that secret is already partially solved for you. The same thing could be said about the lunatic..."...you must pacify him with something.". Personally, I think that you should have gotten something for the latter, since giving him gold is a little tricky. Thomas Jentzsch-- Good luck finding a pointer there...I didn't have much luck. I do know that any data present there is displayed -skewed- above the mesa branch. I found it to be a little easier gliding into the hole when this is drawn (which makes me think that it may have been used during beta testing). twit-- *crossing fingers Anything at all different in the proto may yet shed some light on this...many thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 Oh...when Scott Stilphen posted that you could win with all three treasures in inventory, the Ark would have to be in a bordering mesa...so you would need to try a -few- games before it showed up there. Saving states on an emulator would be a boon in this case. BTW check his "bug" submissions at digitpress...someone's been playing an awful lot of Raiders [ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: Nukey Shay ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 I still don't knwo how you guys cna figure this game out! The only way I beat it was by following the walkthrough and havng a second person on the other controller. I guess what bothers me about ROTL is that the map and places really don't make much sense. Maybe it's because of the limitations of the 2600 graphics, I don't know. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmi Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 hehe tempest i know what your going though when i first got this game i was like 14 or so it took forever for me and a friend to figure out the game( im thinking a good 6 months to perfect a 21 score) im just glad i had a second brain helping me figure it out as i would be in a mental hospital right now if i did it alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 I hear ya Tempest. The screen layout isn't the most linear attempt at game development. Everything seems to exist on its own loosely connected to other screens. Okay, the TWO Ankh thing has been cleared up. I'm working on falling in the valley with diff point totals (the item about only losing points for dying upon game completion helps). Scott, how concrete is your scoring guide? I'm going to be using it as a guide for the next leg of the quest. Funny, after all this is done, I will probably retire my ROTLA cart, for a long while anyway..... Weary Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 13, 2001 Author Share Posted November 13, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Nukey Shay: Oh...when Scott Stilphen posted that you could win with all three treasures in inventory, the Ark would have to be in a bordering mesa...so you would need to try a -few- games before it showed up there. That would make it easier, but not required. Get on top of the mesa with the Ark and simply press the button when the hook is in the air. When you start falling, quick change the inventory indicator to the parachute and go inside the mesa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 Whoops! Didn't think of the obvious. Actually, I'd never tried it...I was stuck in the mindset that you had to drop the object to select a different one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 13, 2001 Author Share Posted November 13, 2001 quote: Originally posted by StanJr: Scott, how concrete is your scoring guide? I'm going to be using it as a guide for the next leg of the quest. It's pretty close, but not 100% accurate b/c as I mentioned, not every scoring action can be evenly counted in points or half-points. For example, something that gives a half point might actually look like 2/3rds of a circle, instead of a perfect half circle. I have no idea why it isn't. Certainly would have made things *much* easier to understand if everthing was scored in whole points! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 Thomas has found that the mystery key is coded as an on-screen graphic (not an inventory item) and that it seems to appear (somehow) in the entrance room! Perhaps this was something that was planned but never used, but it's hard to believe he would code an object w/o using it. The mind fairly reels.. [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 Has anyone contacted HSW about our new findings? He may not remember the exact details of how to find the hidden initals or the second Yar, but maybe these new findings (like the second key and secret non-existant room) would jog his memory about something. Has anyone ever talked to Jerome? Did he ever do the graphics in any other games (other than ET)? Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 Sorry Tempest, the "secret" room turned out to be the Entrance room (see how quickly things change? Haha! I emailed Howard just last week, when we found Jerome's initials. Haven't heard back from him. I tried emailing Jerome a few years ago, but he never responded. If anyone has contact with them, please forward our questions (or a link to this thread) to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 SO this mystery key was suppose to appear in the entrance room? Was the code to make it visible branched around or something? I've actually always wondered what left over graphics are lurking around in my games and prototypes. Is there an easy way to find out (the showgfx program doesn't really help). Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 That's what Thomas is trying to determine. Btw, here's a picture (courtesy of Luc Pycke of the mystery key, as it appears in the code: According to Thomas, the way it's coded, the key would appear somewhere above the blast hole. Perhaps there's another secret spot somewhere in the game (like the trap door in the dungeon) that you have to hit just right to unlock something? Maybe this action is tied in with the timepiece (as the appearance of the key in the Black Market is) How does the VoP/master thief tie in to all this? Perhaps he has to steal certain objects from you, and/or you have to shoot him to get them back? (shooting him normally costs you a point, but maybe a specific action doesn't) Flying YAR/3 objects in inventory: it would take a lot of playing to try out every possible combination (on the level of 'Swordquest'!) If the YAR graphic is reused somewhere, it *should* be fairly easy to track down in the code. [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Scott Stilphen ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 He also mentioned that it would most likely appear in a resolution twice as wide (like the rock, whip, and blast hole graphics) and be light-grey in color. With the info we have so far, the screen might look something like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 The plot thickens! This ROTLA saga really has me absorbed into this game! I must know how to trigger the key (if possible). I must also find the missing JD initials. I am chomping at the bit (whatever that means). Are you sure the 3 item combo in the mesa generates a YAR? I know HSW says so, but two YARS in the same game sounds redundant. These guys have mixed stuff up before. Could this hlep with the JD initials or even lead to a totally new egg? Still deep in the sand Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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