Why hate MAME?

[lance_miller]

Why is it that some hardcore coin-op guys hate MAME? Is it somehow a threat to their exclusive "empire".

 

Why hate MAME????????

[madhatter667]

There are people who hate MAME? I love the thing, I think it is a great way to play fun arcade games at home. Not everyone can have an arcade cab in their rec room, bedroom, or living room.

[Rybags]

Some "purists" might hate MAME, but not many people have the money or room to have dozens or hundreds of arcade machines.

 

Most of the hate I've seen directed to MAME is due to the fact that each landmark release tends to make an enormous amount of ROMs incompatible due to the addition of some miniscule item of support for a particular game. The usual problem is that the ROMset requires the addition of one or two extra ROM files, which is a major pain in the arse when dealing with hundreds or thousands of images.

[Blackjack]

It's a love hate thing for me, kinda like Metallica. Love them for what they were, hate them for what the've become.

 

 

My honest opinion is that Mame is the single coolest piece of software ever created. I am eternally grateful and have donated money in the past.

 

With that said, much about the current mamedev pisses me off. I used to be a regular on the forum, but no longer. I couldn't stomach the attitudes and the hostility toward all the newbies. I find Atari Age a much more hospitable atmosphere.

 

A good summary of Mame disappointment can be found at http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/mameover.htm

 

As a personal little problem I have with the dumping project. The last time I donated was around the first of September '01. Soon after the 9-11 attacks came and they found it necessary to donate the money I had given them to a 9-11 relief fund. That pisses me off! If I want to donate to another charity, I will. I wanted that money to go to buying boards like they said it would.

[Bakasama]

Well, I find most of the hate is towards MAMEDEV. They have been accused of egotism, elitism and some rather shady dealings. Not to mention the EMU drama that the group tends to get. Stuff like that sucks the fun out of MAME unless you nothing of the drama around MAME.

[Shannon]

I think the mamedev people get alot of heat. Sometimes it seems like they do stuff just to be "a rebel" and piss people off. I got turned off to MAME along time ago, although I still think it is a great thing.

 

Certainly doesn't keep me from using it occasionally though.

 

I agree with blackjack though, the attitude towards people on their forum is piss poor.

[Paranoid]

I completely ignore the actual MAME community, for the most part. As far as broken ROMs with new releases, I keep a few different versions on the cabinet PC... so, if one version breaks a ROM and fixes another, I get the best of both worlds. Kind of a hassle, but, like said, I can't afford to have a room full of the real deal.

[madhatter667]

I just haven't updated my MAME since I downloaded it. All the ROMs I really care about work, and the few that I like that don't I own for other platforms. Eh..no skin off my nose. I have also backed up all my MAME files, so I can install them on my new PC when it is built.

 

So that's why I have no dislike for MAME:

I just don't bother to update.

 

If it isn't broke fix it 'till it is doesn't work for me.

[DanBoris]

Well, I find most of the hate is towards MAMEDEV. They have been accused of egotism, elitism and some rather shady dealings. Not to mention the EMU drama that the group tends to get. Stuff like that sucks the fun out of MAME unless you nothing of the drama around MAME.

 

I've been part of the MAME development team for many years and although there may be a case here and there where "egotism and elitism" may occur, in general I find it to be a very good, easy to work with group of people. For the most part everthing the team does is to serve the goals of the project. Unfortunetly these oftern conflict with the interests of the people using MAME just to play the games. The ROMS not working is a perfect example. MAME always tries to support the best know set of ROMS so it can always be used as a reference for what the correct roms are. By not supporting incorrect roms, it encourages people to get rid of these bad roms sets (althought this often doesn't happen).

 

Also the team, like a lot of emulator authors, have to deal with a lot of clueless and even downright ignorant people and this can really wear on your nevers.

 

Dan

Edited October 18, 2006 by DanBoris

[Paranoid]

Also the team, like a lot of emulator authors, have to deal with a lot of clueless and even downright ignorant people and this can really wear on your nevers.

 

Unfortunately, MAME is the rare example of where the code isn't written for the BENEFIT of the clueless and ignorant, so the whole elitist, egotism, RTFM attitude has a certain amount of justification. That is... most emulators don't make a lot of effort to claim they are hardware perservation efforts... they exist to allow you to play classic titles on new hardware. MAME presents this as an unintended consequence (and not one they condone) of their attempts to preserve the hardware.

 

If this is a bullshit excuse or not, is a matter of personal opinion.

 

But it certainly allows you/MAMEDev to justify treating Lusers as such under the idea that they're not the intended market for the emulator, in the first place. Whereas when other emulator programmers complaing about demanding Lusers I always think, "You would rather your emulator languish in obscurity without any demand"? Ignorant Lusers are generally the price of success... and, if it were a REAL software model, those would be your *consumer market*.

 

[+remowilliams]

As far as broken ROMs with new releases, I keep a few different versions on the cabinet PC... so, if one version breaks a ROM and fixes another, I get the best of both worlds

Exactly. Nobody ever forces anyone to upgrade versions. If you don't like something in a new version, stick with the one you have.

 

Also the team, like a lot of emulator authors, have to deal with a lot of clueless and even downright ignorant people and this can really wear on your nevers.

I'm amazed that the mamedevs haven't packed it in yet. Prolonged exposure to the general masses is a surefire way to turn even the kindest and most patient of souls into an empty husk of a person. Kudos to all the mamedevs for sticking it out this long! People are a rude, ungrateful, self obsessed and demanding lot.

 

I don't get people bitching about MAME or any choices the mamedevs make. You don't like it - don't use it. Learn to code and put your time and effort into it, go use something else, or go write something better if you think you can.

 

The thing that sooooo many people lose sight of - is that MAME is FREE. That's a hell of good deal for the tens of thousands of man hours of work that have gone into it!

 

As for as the OP question - as far as hardcore coin-op people not liking it, they're purists (crazy) - what do you expect?

[Shannon]

Oh come on gimme a break. The mame is a free documentation project if you don't like it, don't use it, or fix it yourself argument is old and lazy. It really serves no purpose for meaningful dialog. I think the people here are more mature than that. Heck, even aaron pointed out that alot of older drivers contain hacks that kinda defeat the whole "documentation" purpose of MAME anyways.

 

Fixing incorrect romsets makes perfectly good sense. It's other pointless things the team has done. They bring alot of stuff on themselves and alot of it certainly could have been handled better. MAME has a loooong history so it's kinda hard to explain. I'm perfectly aware that they consistently get overrun with clueless noobs, but anyone who doesn't think mamedev forums are not filled with rude arrogant people need to get a clue. They should just let someone with a little more patience deal with the n00bs.

 

Regardless I still have my opinion on things, just as the mamedev, and nothing is gonna change that, whether mame is free or not and I certainly do not plan on stop using it becaust of that either.

 

Despite all that, kudos to them for sticking to it. Many an emu programmer woulda dropped out a long time ago because of alot of the thankless masses.

 

Also the team, like a lot of emulator authors, have to deal with a lot of clueless and even downright ignorant people and this can really wear on your nevers.

 

nevers?

Edited October 18, 2006 by Shannon

[DanBoris]

 

Also the team, like a lot of emulator authors, have to deal with a lot of clueless and even downright ignorant people and this can really wear on your nevers.

 

nevers?

 

I only said I was an emulator author, I never claimed I could spell.

[Crazy Climber]

I don't like MAME.

Why you ask, it's just un natural. Kind of like the new re released AC/DC shirts they sell at Target, just not the same. It's better than nothing but if I had my choice I would take the original cabinets (I do so that's what I own), I think most people would prefer original but like mentioned earlier price/space becomes an issue. Having the monster selection of games would be sweet though but many good ones would probably go unplayed with so many choices. Just my opinion

[Shannon]

Heck... I'd take an original over emulated any day! Of course my significant other may not allow that to happen.

 

I only said I was an emulator author, I never claimed I could spell.

 

Despite all the mean things we've been saying about mamedevs... we all know that your cool.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Shannon

[JamesD]

I notice it's people that have actual games that dislike mame.

[Paranoid]

Good point. I've got Choplifter... a cocktail cab...

 

Looking at it, the 3d effects of the background, the size of the screen, the FEEL of the game... and then looking at the MAME image, there is simply NO comparisson.

 

But, I can't *afford* to have more than one cabinet. Choplifter spends its time under a tarp out in the garage except for during parties... when it comes in. MAME wins on convienience and practical expense.

 

If I had a full finished basement I could set up like an arcade and ten thousand dollars or so for games, I might have a full set of my favorite arcade titles...

 

One other thing I often forget... if anything on my MAME cabinet goes bad, I can replace or repair it, myself. I can't support the maintainence of a real arcade cabinet. I don't even like to open the back with an exposed flyback transformer and all that back in there. Arcade cabinets are for industrial use, and employ industrial design. A MAME cabinet is a DIY thing that uses, generally, off the shelf consumer parts. That makes a BIG difference.

[Bakasama]

I've been part of the MAME development team for many years and although there may be a case here and there where "egotism and elitism" may occur, in general I find it to be a very good, easy to work with group of people. For the most part everthing the team does is to serve the goals of the project. Unfortunetly these oftern conflict with the interests of the people using MAME just to play the games. The ROMS not working is a perfect example. MAME always tries to support the best know set of ROMS so it can always be used as a reference for what the correct roms are. By not supporting incorrect roms, it encourages people to get rid of these bad roms sets (althought this often doesn't happen).

 

Also the team, like a lot of emulator authors, have to deal with a lot of clueless and even downright ignorant people and this can really wear on your nevers.

 

Dan

 

Ah I've known of your work in MAME. No disrepect to you or MAMEDEV but egotism and elistism is a common complaint. Another thing is that the MAME policy seems to change on a whim. For example, there was a policy of not emulating Neo Geo hacks and bootlegs but that changed several versions ago to allow them in MAME. I know there are some users wondering what's the deal with MAMEDEV.

 

I do know MAME strives towards accuracy but the ROM changes are definitely an inconvenience we users we got to deal with every once in a while. I'll take that over the mess that is the NeoRAGE roms.

 

Yeah I do understand that there's a lot of clueless users that don't read the READ ME files which does explain how to work MAME. Plus the every popular "Where's are the ROMs"

[Major_Havoc]

I notice it's people that have actual games that dislike mame.

 

Exactly. The discussion was originally about the fact that it's not unusual to find some hardcore arcade collectors that basically think "Mame is lame". It kind of veered away because not much of us here are arcade collectors (I'm not), and not many of us really know many arcade collectors. Anyway, I know a lot of them laugh at mame cabs too and dismiss them as pc's in a cabinet. But then again I guess it's understandable as really what it is: is simply just collector's bias! After all, people collect what they obsess over... and their obsession is actual arcade games from their youth and collecting the actual hardware. So using mame as a primary way to play games they loved as kids just doesn't do it. Incidentally, some of them even scoff at JAMMA cabs so take it for what you will.

 

What I notice about them though is just because they think Mame sucks, doesn't stop them from using it on whatever pc's they have to check out or preview games & roms. But I think when they say it "sucks" they purely mean it from their collecting standpoint. Like they wouldn't be happy settling for playing Mr. Do or Star Wars on their pc's (although they have it), or on a mame cab. What they want to play... is the actual machine. The rest is unsatisfactory.

 

But, I can't *afford* to have more than one cabinet. Choplifter spends its time under a tarp out in the garage except for during parties... when it comes in. MAME wins on convienience and practical expense.

 

If I had a full finished basement I could set up like an arcade and ten thousand dollars or so for games, I might have a full set of my favorite arcade titles...

 

One other thing I often forget... if anything on my MAME cabinet goes bad, I can replace or repair it, myself. I can't support the maintainence of a real arcade cabinet. I don't even like to open the back with an exposed flyback transformer and all that back in there. Arcade cabinets are for industrial use, and employ industrial design. A MAME cabinet is a DIY thing that uses, generally, off the shelf consumer parts. That makes a BIG difference.

 

Exactly. That's the difference between the majority of us, and these collectors. It may seem unreasonable to you and I for several reasons including cost and space.. but these guys exist and they are rabid http://www.barncade.com , http://www.duramold.com, http://www.mylstar.com and that's only guys who decided to show their stuff on a website

[midget35]

Wow! What a topic starter!

 

I love emulation- there I said it. Mame is the flagship of the movement, and I am 100% in favour.

 

I'm sick of people slating emulation-TOO THE BACK TEETH!!... I've been through the space invaders, 2600, nes thing as it happened- front row center- and remember crying when the NES went ot of production...

 

Like the rest of you- I'm sure- I am passionate about games. Sometimes I wonder if anyone really understands how important an artform gaming is, and there is not a shadow of doubt IMHO that emulation is absolutely vital to the preservation of my childhood.

 

Emulation is far FAR FAR closer to it's namesake then people have EVER given it credit for!!

 

More of us should stand up man

[scotty]

Why I **prefer** emulation.

 

Simple. I have no choice:

 

1) I drive a semi. I don't have the room to carry an Amiga, ST, Atari-B-bit, 2600, Colecovision, O2 (thanks Dan!!) etc... as well as an arcade cabinet or two in the truck. Can't happen.

 

2) I live in a small apartment. I have a Ms. Pac-Man, Playchoice-10 and a Final Blow (to soon be a Mame cab) competing for space with a bed and a dresser in my 10x10 bedroom. I have a 27" TV on top of a dresser with a DVD-R, DVD Player and a VCR under it. There is just no room for consoles, computers, keyboards, carts, floppies etc...

 

I do own a few 2600's, Playstation, Dreamcast, and a few others in a storage locker. No room!!!

[Guitardude]

I was unaware there was any hate towards MAME at all. I do understand from the purists point of view but some people just wanna play games, so they'll use it. The only person I ever thought

there was any hate towards was the guy who has the Marble Madness II roms, but I gather that's just from people who want to play the game and are frustrated that they can't.

[Bakasama]

I was unaware there was any hate towards MAME at all. I do understand from the purists point of view but some people just wanna play games, so they'll use it. The only person I ever thought

there was any hate towards was the guy who has the Marble Madness II roms, but I gather that's just from people who want to play the game and are frustrated that they can't.

 

The only way we can possibly play Marble Madness II is if Midway puts that game in a collection for PSX2, Xbox, or Wii but I don't think that's ever going to happen.