Commodore 64 vs Atari 800 Xl

[DimensionX]

Okey, to make things clear.

 

If 2 channels on the pokey chip plays the same note?

 

Here's what happens when you do that...

 

You get two voices and some sort of phase effect depending on how you time the register writes. If they are in phase, the sound will simply be louder. If they are out of phase, the sound will be very quiet. What usually happens is you get them somewhat out of phase and the sound actually gets 'thinner' sounding.

 

Here's a fun trick: Set one voice to frequency X and set another to X+1. You'll hear them drift in and out of phase.

 

Often used on synthesizers.

 

If you tune those two channels a bit different you will get a nice chorus effect.

[Bryan]

And another note, most of the fat bass sounds on the Pokey come from using the smaller Poly counters instead of 50/50 waves.

[DimensionX]

LMFAO!

 

You said (emphasis mine) :-

When you use two channels for bass, Pokey can sound very fat too, and if you do, you still have three channels to make music with.

 

And now you say (emphasis mine) :-

 

That means that you can get a fatter bass sound using double channels on the pokey chip and still have 2 channels left to make music with.

 

So where is your apology for hurling insults when it was pointed out to you numerous times?

 

Because you are already making music with the first one. Which make 3 channels in total because two of the four channels plays identical.

Edited May 7, 2010 by DimensionX

[Bryan]

Are we back to this?

[+SpiceWare]

It was.

It was an "oh boy, here we go again".

 

Then you posted another reply to tell me that i only caused trouble here.

I was pointing out that the trouble disappeared when you weren't here. Coincidence, I think not.

 

I also posted another reply in your defense.

 

Everything was sooo nice when i wasn't here.

The discussion was more interesting then.

 

Don't take me for stupid, please.

I don't take you for stupid, I take you as someone who likes to stir up shit and then act all innocent. That may have worked when you were a kid, but you've been called out for it here.

[PeteD]

(edited)

 

Ok, so I think I get it. All three SID voices are playing something. That's the three.

 

Now, on one revision of the chip, a click on volume change is heard. Got it. I would assume the click is in proportion to the volume step chosen.

 

Now, if the three are playing, you can't just go hammering the volume right? It's gotta be modest steps, or the other voices are impacted, or...

 

Help me get that part.

 

You should be right but you've basically got to play samples which will change the rate so fast that as long as you don't keep ending samples on weird volumes the underlying output tends to sound fine. It's quite possibly to do with when the master volume effects the channels as they all basically have volume also because of the ADSR. Not entirely sure, when I wrote a SID emulator I never got down to the nitty gritty why samples didn't just screw everything else.

 

I'll try to find some tunes with distinctive samples and 3 voice stuff.

 

this isnt too bad

about 25 seconds in. The normal channels are actually drowning out the samples on that one but there are actually samples playing constantly (checked in Java Sidplayer graphical output)

[DimensionX]

And another note, most of the fat bass sounds on the Pokey come from using the smaller Poly counters instead of 50/50 waves.

 

In many old games they used two channels to play the same note slightly different tuned, to get a fat chorus effect. Many early games from English Software did that. Firechief, Captain Stickys Gold, Robin Hood etc.

[DimensionX]

It was.

It was an "oh boy, here we go again".

 

Then you posted another reply to tell me that i only caused trouble here.

I was pointing out that the trouble disappeared when you weren't here. Coincidence, I think not.

 

I also posted another reply in your defense.

 

Everything was sooo nice when i wasn't here.

The discussion was more interesting then.

 

Don't take me for stupid, please.

I don't take you for stupid, I take you as someone who likes to stir up shit and then act all innocent. That may have worked when you were a kid, but you've been called out for it here.

 

So when i post something and then get a bunch of people against me, i'm the troublemaker?

 

Even if i was right?

 

Like today.

 

Then it doesn't matter what i post? I'm the "trouble maker" anyway?

 

And when people i have never seen before jumps in with some nifty comments, i'm the trouble maker?

Edited May 7, 2010 by DimensionX

[PeteD]

 

So when i post something and then get a bucn of people against me, i'm the troublemaker?

 

Even if i was right?

 

What BUNCH? You posted something, one guy thought you meant something you're claiming you didn't, someone else (me) had a problem with you because I'm quite incensed that you spent at least a day arguing with me about pokey 4 channels blah blah only to return and totally flip that around by saying to produce ONE fat bass sound you use TWO channels leaving (a total) of 3 including the bass, in your words "the same as SID" which was my whole point all along during your "4 channels" repetitive nonsense.

 

That's 2 different arguments you're having based off one of your posts. There's no BUNCH.

[DimensionX]

 

So when i post something and then get a bucn of people against me, i'm the troublemaker?

 

Even if i was right?

 

What BUNCH? You posted something, one guy thought you meant something you're claiming you didn't, someone else (me) had a problem with you because I'm quite incensed that you spent at least a day arguing with me about pokey 4 channels blah blah only to return and totally flip that around by saying to produce ONE fat bass sound you use TWO channels leaving (a total) of 3 including the bass, in your words "the same as SID" which was my whole point all along during your "4 channels" repetitive nonsense.

 

That's 2 different arguments you're having based off one of your posts. There's no BUNCH.

 

So it was because of something that happened before?

 

Why?

 

I didn't said anything wrong in my posting.

 

The only thing i heard was. Admit that you're wrong.

 

But i wasn't wrong.

Edited May 7, 2010 by DimensionX

[DimensionX]

I can understand that some people might be upset or angry for things that "happened before".

 

But why continue?

 

I thought that this place was about discussing retro?

[TMR]

I thought that this place was about discussing retro?

 

This particular part of Atari Age is for discussing programming.

[DimensionX]

I thought that this place was about discussing retro?

 

This particular part of Atari Age is for discussing programming.

 

This thread isn't much about programming, is it?

 

40% must be totally off topic and at least 40% about retro, but not about programming. There's not much left, is it?

 

Well, i admit that i should't be on this thread as a non programmer.

 

Perhaps we will meet in some other forum here at AtariAge.

 

Back to topic?

Edited May 7, 2010 by DimensionX

[PeteD]

 

 

But i wasn't wrong.

 

You were wrong because the only point you were right on was "POKEY has 4 channels" which was never in contention anyway. What was is what is possible in comparison to SID using those 4 channels. People with knowledge like Bryan can explain how 9bit accuracy can be had for very little overhead for example. You just repeated "4 channels" over and over and claim that bits doesn't matter and combining channels doesn't matter etc etc

 

THEN you appear again today with an example that was no doubt to point out that POKEY is at least as good as SID with a combined waveform 3 channel example. Something you spent at least a day arguing with me saying that wasn't important and that POKEY having 4 channels was ALL that mattered.

[PeteD]

I thought that this place was about discussing retro?

 

This particular part of Atari Age is for discussing programming.

 

This thread isn't much about programming, is it?

 

40% must be totally off topic and at least 40% about retro, but not about programming. There's not much left, is it?

 

Well, i admit that i should't be on this thread as a non programmer.

 

Yeah, rainbows aren't really on topic are they? Didn't stop you spending a week going on about them

[PeteD]

 

Well, i admit that i should't be on this thread as a non programmer.

 

Perhaps we will meet in some other forum here at AtariAge.

 

Back to topic?

 

To be honest if you go to the main Atari 8 bit part of the forum you'll get a much better reception for most of what you believe.

Edited May 7, 2010 by PeteD

[DimensionX]

I thought that this place was about discussing retro?

 

This particular part of Atari Age is for discussing programming.

 

This thread isn't much about programming, is it?

 

40% must be totally off topic and at least 40% about retro, but not about programming. There's not much left, is it?

 

Well, i admit that i should't be on this thread as a non programmer.

 

Yeah, rainbows aren't really on topic are they? Didn't stop you spending a week going on about them

 

And you are that typically person with bad selfesteem that never can be wrong.

[PeteD]

I thought that this place was about discussing retro?

 

This particular part of Atari Age is for discussing programming.

 

This thread isn't much about programming, is it?

 

40% must be totally off topic and at least 40% about retro, but not about programming. There's not much left, is it?

 

Well, i admit that i should't be on this thread as a non programmer.

 

Yeah, rainbows aren't really on topic are they? Didn't stop you spending a week going on about them

 

And you are that typically person with bad selfesteem that never can be wrong.

 

 

Are you that person that makes personal attacks? no, surely that's everyone else APART from you.

[DimensionX]

I thought that this place was about discussing retro?

 

This particular part of Atari Age is for discussing programming.

 

This thread isn't much about programming, is it?

 

40% must be totally off topic and at least 40% about retro, but not about programming. There's not much left, is it?

 

Well, i admit that i should't be on this thread as a non programmer.

 

Yeah, rainbows aren't really on topic are they? Didn't stop you spending a week going on about them

 

And you are that typically person with bad selfesteem that never can be wrong.

 

 

Are you that person that makes personal attacks? no, surely that's everyone else APART from you.

 

That wasn't a personal attack, but fact. I saw it yesterday too when you answered Audiophile. You can't be wrong about anything.

[PeteD]

 

That wasn't a personal attack, but fact. I saw it yesterday too when you answered Audiophile. You can't be wrong about anything.

 

Of course it was a personal attack. You're making a comment about me as a person. Firstly the discussion between me and Audiophile was about a subjective matter, there is no right or wrong. So because I disagreed with Audiophile about how thin or fat the SID sounded in comparison to the POKEY it's ME who is wrong, just because you're a POKEY fan and not SID?

 

Prove otherwise, show me when POKEY sounds fatter/thicker than SID at it's fattest and I'll be happy to change my mind but I CAN NOT BE WRONG ON A SUBJECTIVE MATTER.

[TMR]

I thought that this place was about discussing retro?

 

This particular part of Atari Age is for discussing programming.

 

This thread isn't much about programming, is it?

 

That's irrelevant, you said "I thought that this place was about discussing retro" and this particular part of it isn't as such; admonishing other people for being off topic like that doesn't hold water if you're not on topic yourself.

[DimensionX]

 

That wasn't a personal attack, but fact. I saw it yesterday too when you answered Audiophile. You can't be wrong about anything.

 

Of course it was a personal attack. You're making a comment about me as a person. Firstly the discussion between me and Audiophile was about a subjective matter, there is no right or wrong. So because I disagreed with Audiophile about how thin or fat the SID sounded in comparison to the POKEY it's ME who is wrong, just because you're a POKEY fan and not SID?

 

Prove otherwise, show me when POKEY sounds fatter/thicker than SID at it's fattest and I'll be happy to change my mind but I CAN NOT BE WRONG ON A SUBJECTIVE MATTER.

 

I'm not a pokey fan, i listen to both, often via emulators. Both sounds good in their own special way. You always see people as idiots who's not sharing your own opinion. And even if you're wrong you're trying to do everything to forget it or hide it. Then follow it up with some personal attacks.

 

Be humble instead.

[DimensionX]

I thought that this place was about discussing retro?

 

This particular part of Atari Age is for discussing programming.

 

This thread isn't much about programming, is it?

 

That's irrelevant, you said "I thought that this place was about discussing retro" and this particular part of it isn't as such; admonishing other people for being off topic like that doesn't hold water if you're not on topic yourself.

 

Eh?

 

I mean that this place is for discussing old computers?

Old games?

 

Not to make personal attacks?

[PeteD]

 

That wasn't a personal attack, but fact. I saw it yesterday too when you answered Audiophile. You can't be wrong about anything.

 

Of course it was a personal attack. You're making a comment about me as a person. Firstly the discussion between me and Audiophile was about a subjective matter, there is no right or wrong. So because I disagreed with Audiophile about how thin or fat the SID sounded in comparison to the POKEY it's ME who is wrong, just because you're a POKEY fan and not SID?

 

Prove otherwise, show me when POKEY sounds fatter/thicker than SID at it's fattest and I'll be happy to change my mind but I CAN NOT BE WRONG ON A SUBJECTIVE MATTER.

 

I'm not a pokey fan, i listen to both, often via emulators. Both sounds good in their own special way. You always see people as idiots who's not sharing your own opinion. And even if you're wrong you're trying to do everything to forget it or hide it. Then follow it up with some personal attacks.

 

Be humble instead.

 

Dear God stop twisting things away from what you accuse someone of. Am I wrong in disagreeing with Audiphile or not? You made that claim now back it up. In the end it was more of a missundestanding where he thought I thought he was saying SID sounded like shit when I didn't I was just disagreeing that sid ever sounds thin unless that was the intention (or from lack of know-how).

 

Now you're accusing me of what is YOUR major fault. You continually post things about your preferences, I've most of the time disagreed with you BUT said that's fine, it's subjective that you like Atari rainbow colours over more complex C64 images BUT when I've brought FACTS to the discussion and you have none other than "but I prefer" you get all arsey as if people are trying to tell you what you should like. That's just your own insecurity.

 

If I'm wrong I'll happily admit it, its you who is twisting and hiding to cover up your lack of knowledge. I say again YOU CAN'T BE WRONG ON A SUBJECTIVE MATTER. Even if I changed my mind I'd still be right BUT I don't attack people like you do for disagreeing.

[DimensionX]

 

That wasn't a personal attack, but fact. I saw it yesterday too when you answered Audiophile. You can't be wrong about anything.

 

Of course it was a personal attack. You're making a comment about me as a person. Firstly the discussion between me and Audiophile was about a subjective matter, there is no right or wrong. So because I disagreed with Audiophile about how thin or fat the SID sounded in comparison to the POKEY it's ME who is wrong, just because you're a POKEY fan and not SID?

 

Prove otherwise, show me when POKEY sounds fatter/thicker than SID at it's fattest and I'll be happy to change my mind but I CAN NOT BE WRONG ON A SUBJECTIVE MATTER.

 

I'm not a pokey fan, i listen to both, often via emulators. Both sounds good in their own special way. You always see people as idiots who's not sharing your own opinion. And even if you're wrong you're trying to do everything to forget it or hide it. Then follow it up with some personal attacks.

 

Be humble instead.

 

Dear God stop twisting things away from what you accuse someone of. Am I wrong in disagreeing with Audiphile or not? You made that claim now back it up. In the end it was more of a missundestanding where he thought I thought he was saying SID sounded like shit when I didn't I was just disagreeing that sid ever sounds thin unless that was the intention (or from lack of know-how).

 

Now you're accusing me of what is YOUR major fault. You continually post things about your preferences, I've most of the time disagreed with you BUT said that's fine, it's subjective that you like Atari rainbow colours over more complex C64 images BUT when I've brought FACTS to the discussion and you have none other than "but I prefer" you get all arsey as if people are trying to tell you what you should like. That's just your own insecurity.

 

If I'm wrong I'll happily admit it, its you who is twisting and hiding to cover up your lack of knowledge. I say again YOU CAN'T BE WRONG ON A SUBJECTIVE MATTER. Even if I changed my mind I'd still be right BUT I don't attack people like you do for disagreeing.

 

Pete, i'm the first one to admit that i'm wrong and have done that several times in this thread. But what i certanly don't like is when people jump in just for a quick personal attack, and 5-6 against one isn't fair. What have you learned under this thread that wasn't what you first thought?

 

Nothing?

 

Or have you?