Commodore 64 vs Atari 800 Xl

[NorthPole(heeHAW)]

I actually prefer the Amstrad CPC's pallette to the A8's.

 

I am not a programmer (well I am trying to learn 6502 very slowly.) I have been reading this thread silently for quite while. It seems as though i've stopped learning things because there's too much arguing and not enough listening.

 

It seems as though there's no progression. Can we break the cycle?

 

Aaron

[PeteD]

I'll admit it's hard to get a lot of colors on the screen, but I'd have to disagree that the palette itself is a weakness of the system.

 

The only person to say that was DimensionX about the C64's palette i think... who said it about the A8?

 

I said I didn't "like" it by which I mean the tone of it, wouldn't say having a crap load of colours is bad though just to me they could've looked nicer but that's subjective again and you can't deny more to choose from has got to be better.

[Bryan]

I'll admit it's hard to get a lot of colors on the screen, but I'd have to disagree that the palette itself is a weakness of the system.

 

The only person to say that was DimensionX about the C64's palette i think... who said it about the A8?

 

Imo the A8 palette is generally quite ugly, so now I'm a C64 fanboy again I suppose? Nope, it's just my opinion.

[TMR]

Brits can be very annoying too, especially the ones without any sense of humour.

 

And people who are repeatedly told that they're posting to the wrong part of a forum but continue to do so regardless are the most annoying of all.

 

Well, you can be fanatic to a certain limit, then i all becomes both silly and obvious. You passed that limit long time ago.

 

You did that with your first fanboy post declaring the Atari 8-bit the winner. Nothing after that has redeemed you and what you've said does not negate the fact that you're still posting to the wrong place.

 

A8 for vivid crystal clear unmatched colours

 

IN YOUR OPINION, THIS IS NOT A FACT.

 

Good luck with the spritemachine.

 

Since i'm currently writing an Atari 8-bit game and have said so repeatedly in this thread, this proves that you don't actually read other people's posts. So your opinions now have even less weight than before, which is a surprise because i doubt anyone thought it was possible for them to lose any more.

 

It's NOT my opinion.

 

Yes it is.

[PeteD]

I'll admit it's hard to get a lot of colors on the screen, but I'd have to disagree that the palette itself is a weakness of the system.

 

The only person to say that was DimensionX about the C64's palette i think... who said it about the A8?

 

Imo the A8 palette is generally quite ugly, so now I'm a C64 fanboy again I suppose? Nope, it's just my opinion.

 

Ok, as I posted above I kind of have issue with being targeted with that. imo it's nowhere near as pretty as people like DX says, I nowhere said it was a "weakness" just I wasn't so keen on the actual colours in it.

[TMR]

I actually prefer the Amstrad CPC's pallette to the A8's.

 

Don't tell DimensionX that, he'll go totally mental when he realises the CPC has even less shades of grey than the C64! =-)

 

I am not a programmer (well I am trying to learn 6502 very slowly.) I have been reading this thread silently for quite while. It seems as though i've stopped learning things because there's too much arguing and not enough listening.

 

Well, when the discussion was mostly programmers we were actually discussing programming... now DimensionX is back that's slowed down. But the best way to learn is to ask questions, what do y'want to know then?

[DimensionX]

I actually prefer the Amstrad CPC's pallette to the A8's.

 

Don't tell DimensionX that, he'll go totally mental when he realises the CPC has even less shades of grey than the C64! =-)

 

I am not a programmer (well I am trying to learn 6502 very slowly.) I have been reading this thread silently for quite while. It seems as though i've stopped learning things because there's too much arguing and not enough listening.

 

Well, when the discussion was mostly programmers we were actually discussing programming... now DimensionX is back that's slowed down. But the best way to learn is to ask questions, what do y'want to know then?

 

And when i was away for a while, it was about electricity in houses...

 

Bad power supply in Wales for exemple.

 

And now i come to destroy the whole thread, discussing the colour palette on A8 and C64.

Edited May 8, 2010 by DimensionX

[PeteD]

I actually prefer the Amstrad CPC's pallette to the A8's.

 

Don't tell DimensionX that, he'll go totally mental when he realises the CPC has even less shades of grey than the C64! =-)

 

I am not a programmer (well I am trying to learn 6502 very slowly.) I have been reading this thread silently for quite while. It seems as though i've stopped learning things because there's too much arguing and not enough listening.

 

Well, when the discussion was mostly programmers we were actually discussing programming... now DimensionX is back that's slowed down. But the best way to learn is to ask questions, what do y'want to know then?

 

And when i was away for a while, it was about electricity in houses...

 

Bad power supply in Wales for exemple.

 

Which was all on topic as far as programming because it started out with Bryan saying he lost files, we started talking about backing up and I said I had to make sure to backup to online storage because of my power problems. It was a quick interlude not a weeks long repeat posting about colours.

[TMR]

And when i was away for a while, it was about electricity in houses...

 

Bad power supply in Wales for exemple.

 

And now i come to destroy the whole thread, discussing the colour palette on A8 and C64.

 

It was still more on topic (since it relates to programmers and in particular back-ups) than your opinions on colours, yes.

[DimensionX]

And when i was away for a while, it was about electricity in houses...

 

Bad power supply in Wales for exemple.

 

And now i come to destroy the whole thread, discussing the colour palette on A8 and C64.

 

It was still more on topic (since it relates to programmers and in particular back-ups) than your opinions on colours, yes.

 

So, what's wrong discussiong the colours on both computers?

 

Well, i say the same thing as when i entered this thread. I choose A8 for it's magnificent colours. Then you can think whatever you want. Now i'm off to another part of the forum that suits me better.

Edited May 8, 2010 by DimensionX

[PeteD]

And when i was away for a while, it was about electricity in houses...

 

Bad power supply in Wales for exemple.

 

And now i come to destroy the whole thread, discussing the colour palette on A8 and C64.

 

It was still more on topic (since it relates to programmers and in particular back-ups) than your opinions on colours, yes.

 

So, what's wrong discussiong the colours on both computers?

 

Well, i say the same thing as when i entered this thread. I choose A8 for it's magnificent colours. Then you can think whatever you want.

 

But does that have to go on for weeks? We all got the message a long time ago, people disagree with you. FIN!

[TMR]

So, what's wrong discussiong the colours on both computers?

 

Nothing as long as it's not about trying to force people to agree with a subjective opinion of which has "magnificent colours" or other such rubbish - it's a nice palette, but "magnificent"... no, that's just hyperbole on your part and nothing more. For any programmer (and again, that's who should be discussing things in this thread) it's all about how you can actually use the colours, the very point you've been trying to call irrelevant.

 

Well, i say the same thing as when i entered this thread.

 

When you entered the thread your second post was an attempt to declare the Atari 8-bit the winner.

Edited May 8, 2010 by TMR

[Bryan]

Well I'd certainly never call loads of colours by itself a weakness Pretty much is the best palette of any 8 bit (can't think of any better atm).

 

For a while it was a unique Atari feature.

 

Even though the 2600 had an ever harder time getting color to the screen, I think it's generally remembered as a very colorful system. At least the palette kept the games from all having the same appearance.

 

A more RGB approach would've been better imo as there's too much similar stuff in the A8 one but similar over 256 is still more than 16,32 etc No doubt it's just a design limitation anyway, do it with YUV and there's probably less hardware needed to get it out to the TV.

 

Yeah, but RGB wasn't on anyone's radar back then. The question was, "How do we use the TV people already have?" It's interesting that by the time the 64 came out, people were frequently buying dedicated monitors instead.

 

It's actually not that hard to improve the Atari colors. If you are willing to drop to 4 shades of each color, you can make one a saturation bit and boost the chroma at will giving you vibrant brights. Alternately, you can simply use the top LUM bit to boost the top 4 of the 8. Atari tried a brute-force method to boost the chroma in the 1200XL. In modern TVs (those with auto-color level) every line the TV calibrates itself to the amplitude of the colorburst to compensate for stronger/weaker signals. A8's (except the 1200XL) use the same chroma level all the time, but this circuit caused the colorburst level to be lower than the rest of the line, resulting in more overall saturation (that is, a level above the colorburst reference). The problem is that the TV expects the chroma signal to be proportional to the luminance level, so the darker colors are already over-saturated using the Atari method so the 1200XL ended up with smeary and blurry darker shades but improved brighter shades. Today, many people disable the chroma boost circuit in the 1200XL.

[NorthPole(heeHAW)]

I actually prefer the Amstrad CPC's pallette to the A8's.

 

Don't tell DimensionX that, he'll go totally mental when he realises the CPC has even less shades of grey than the C64! =-)

 

I am not a programmer (well I am trying to learn 6502 very slowly.) I have been reading this thread silently for quite while. It seems as though i've stopped learning things because there's too much arguing and not enough listening.

 

Well, when the discussion was mostly programmers we were actually discussing programming... now DimensionX is back that's slowed down. But the best way to learn is to ask questions, what do y'want to know then?

 

At the moment I am using this resource for the C64. http://tnd64.unikat.sk/assemble_it.html

 

I chose the C64 over the A8 as I used to use one as a child so it's my preferance. I would try CPC but there's nowhere near as much much coding support as the C64 has. Well I don't speak French let's put it that way!

 

I'm finding the discussions regarding C64/A8 hardware limitations etc of each machine interesting and maybe perhaps it's giving me a heads-up.

 

I guess reading this i'm kinda working backwards. I'm still getting used to 'Hello World'. But when that's done I reckon it'll sure impress the chicks

 

Aaron

[Bryan]

Chicks dig rainbows!

[PeteD]

 

At the moment I am using this resource for the C64. http://tnd64.unikat.sk/assemble_it.html

 

I chose the C64 over the A8 as I used to use one as a child so it's my preferance. I would try CPC but there's nowhere near as much much coding support as the C64 has. Well I don't speak French let's put it that way!

 

I'm finding the discussions regarding C64/A8 hardware limitations etc of each machine interesting and maybe perhaps it's giving me a heads-up.

 

I guess reading this i'm kinda working backwards. I'm still getting used to 'Hello World'. But when that's done I reckon it'll sure impress the chicks

 

Aaron

 

Learn faster, I've got loads of code here you could do for me

[TMR]

At the moment I am using this resource for the C64. http://tnd64.unikat.sk/assemble_it.html

 

Oh... umm... how can i put this politely...? As guides go, that one is rather weak (there are worse out there, like the one about coding a platform game in the Action Replay cartridge's machine code monitor!) and anything he didn't understand gets skirted around or guessed at. Quite a large block of it is based on a course i wrote for a fanzine called Commodore Zone about fifteen or so years ago, that's online as well although it needs an overhaul (i've been saying i'll do an Atari 8-bit remix for years as well).

 

I guess reading this i'm kinda working backwards. I'm still getting used to 'Hello World'. But when that's done I reckon it'll sure impress the chicks

 

i'm sorry, but there's no easy way to break this to you... programming groupies don't exist, i should feckin' know because i've been looking for years! =-)

[TMR]

Chicks dig rainbows!

 

Oh bugger, is that where i've been going wrong all these years?!!

[PeteD]

[Bryan]

Chicks dig rainbows!

 

Oh bugger, is that where i've been going wrong all these years?!!

Yeah, we Atari guys have tons of groupies. Why do you think most Atari projects never get done? We're freakin' worn out!!!

[Bryan]

@Pete

 

Of course that's a FAIL. There's only 4 colors in that rainbow (unless you count the fleshy bits).

[PeteD]

@Pete

 

Of course that's a FAIL. There's only 4 colors in that rainbow (unless you count the fleshy bits).

 

I'm starting to question the posting of it now, it's rather freaking me out. I've heard of "bog diving" before but always thought it was people swimming about in mud.

[TMR]

 

Oh dear Rassilon... is this what DimensionX is doing when he's not posting here? =-)

[Bryan]

Oh dear Rassilon... is this what DimensionX is doing when he's not posting here? =-)

 

Hmm... maybe the keyboard's in the toilet and he's doing that while posting here.

[PeteD]

Oh dear Rassilon... is this what DimensionX is doing when he's not posting here? =-)

 

Hmm... maybe the keyboard's in the toilet and he's doing that while posting here.

 

PICS! or it didn't happen!

 

 

 

oh wait!