Commodore 64 vs Atari 800 Xl

[Bryan]

Well, the wife just called and I'm supposed to meet her for breakfast. Somehow I'm not hungry at the moment though...

[PeteD]

Just keep thinking to yourself, naked man + rainbows + faecal matter! You'll be fine

[Albert]

I haven't had a chance to catch up on this thread yet--I knew something was..uhhr, awry when I received over 100 new reply notification emails while I was away yesterday. I'll be back later and I'll have to make some popcorn before I catch up on 200+ messages.

 

..Al

[TMR]

I haven't had a chance to catch up on this thread yet--I knew something was..uhhr, awry when I received over 100 new reply notification emails while I was away yesterday. I'll be back later and I'll have to make some popcorn before I catch up on 200+ messages.

 

Uh-oh, the boss is here - look busy everybody!

[DimensionX]

So, what's wrong discussiong the colours on both computers?

 

Nothing as long as it's not about trying to force people to agree with a subjective opinion of which has "magnificent colours" or other such rubbish - it's a nice palette, but "magnificent"... no, that's just hyperbole on your part and nothing more. For any programmer (and again, that's who should be discussing things in this thread) it's all about how you can actually use the colours, the very point you've been trying to call irrelevant.

 

Well, i say the same thing as when i entered this thread.

 

When you entered the thread your second post was an attempt to declare the Atari 8-bit the winner.

 

Let me put it like this TMR, perhaps i'm more the typical ST guy then the typical A8 guy. First i thought that A8 was the winner...now i know. I didn't even know when i entered this thread that C64 only had a 16 colour palette, kind of ZX Spectrum on steroids in the colour area. And i dindn't know that dithering was very common because lack of colours. Dithering is always last way out when the machine simply don't have enough colours.

 

And if you had been more polite, you would have been recived a more polite answer.

 

Yes, i really love those A8 rainbows.

 

 

Pure magic from an old computer who hade the best and most vivid colours around.

[Bryan]

I haven't had a chance to catch up on this thread yet--I knew something was..uhhr, awry when I received over 100 new reply notification emails while I was away yesterday. I'll be back later and I'll have to make some popcorn before I catch up on 200+ messages.

 

..Al

 

SPOILER:

 

Someone posted a naked dude!

[PeteD]

He's not naked, he's got rainbows!!

[TMR]

And if you had been more polite, you would have been recived a more polite answer.

 

i started out polite despite your condescending attempts to "educate" a bunch of programmers with things you'd picked up from wikipedia; that's the point i could have been insulting because you were already insulting other people's intelligences.

 

Pure magic from an old computer who hade the best and most vivid colours around.

 

In your opinion.

[Bryan]

He's not naked, he's got rainbows!!

I use a similar argument when the wife catches me looking at women in body paint.

[ANTIQ]

I actually warmed up to the 64 as a result of watching how a handful of Atari guys behaved in a debate. Basically, if you discover you can't stand with the group you're there to stand with, what do you do?

 

Stand alone!

[Bryan]

I wonder which computer naked guy prefers. On the one hand, the rainbow would suggest Atari, but his rainbow has a limited palette suggesting the 64. Also, he seems to be able to put the color anywhere he wants which is also more 64-like. I can't decide if he prefers 'clean' or 'unclean' graphics since he's half in the tub and half in the toilet.

[TMR]

I wonder which computer naked guy prefers. On the one hand, the rainbow would suggest Atari, but his rainbow has a limited palette suggesting the 64. Also, he seems to be able to put the color anywhere he wants which is also more 64-like. I can't decide if he prefers 'clean' or 'unclean' graphics since he's half in the tub and half in the toilet.

 

Amstrad CPC. [Runs like buggery away from the CPC fanboys =-]

[Bryan]

I wonder which computer naked guy prefers. On the one hand, the rainbow would suggest Atari, but his rainbow has a limited palette suggesting the 64. Also, he seems to be able to put the color anywhere he wants which is also more 64-like. I can't decide if he prefers 'clean' or 'unclean' graphics since he's half in the tub and half in the toilet.

 

Amstrad CPC. [Runs like buggery away from the CPC fanboys =-]

Actually, this is a pretty safe place to hide out from the CPC crowd.

[ceti331]

Dithering is always last way out when the machine simply don't have enough colours.

Just wrong. The ST/Amiga have enough colours - but they still use Dithering to overcome limits of mostly 16colors visible at once. (even amiga needs dithering on its 3color sprites or 7color playfields)

 

It is not about the Palette. it is about the bitmap/tiles/sprites

 

Even if the C64 had more colors it would still use dithering due to sprites & tiles being 3 colors.

[DimensionX]

Dithering is always last way out when the machine simply don't have enough colours.

Just wrong. The ST/Amiga have enough colours - but they still use Dithering to overcome limits of mostly 16colors visible at once. (even amiga needs dithering on its 3color sprites or 7color playfields)

 

It is not about the Palette. it is about the bitmap/tiles/sprites

 

Even if the C64 had more colors it would still use dithering due to sprites & tiles being 3 colors.

 

Neither ST or Amiga had enough colours to recreate some games as Streetfighter II for exemple. Megadrive was on it's limits and there's was lots of nuances missing from the arcade orginal. Snes was more true to the arcade except for tiny sprites compared to the orginal arcade game. Often dithering was used to create hues that wasn't in the pallette, because all colours was used.

 

Even Megadrive was forced to use dithering sometimes.

 

A very common place for dithering is the when the sky and ground meets to create extra shades and to smooth things out. You can even see it in the Sonic games for Megadrive. Don't waste shades when you can get away with some dithering.

Edited May 8, 2010 by DimensionX

[NorthPole(heeHAW)]

I wonder which computer naked guy prefers. On the one hand, the rainbow would suggest Atari, but his rainbow has a limited palette suggesting the 64. Also, he seems to be able to put the color anywhere he wants which is also more 64-like. I can't decide if he prefers 'clean' or 'unclean' graphics since he's half in the tub and half in the toilet.

 

Amstrad CPC. [Runs like buggery away from the CPC fanboys =-]

 

 

Is it? After all it came with a compulsory monitor as Rumbelows never stocked the modulator. My Mummy was very happy as she could still watch 'A Country Practice' and 'Sons and Daughters' as she still had her telly.

 

Try doing Chase HQ as good as the CPC version on any other 8 bit platform. In my humble opinion it was the best.

 

I Like the colour/res of the CPC it's very Fisher Price.

 

Thank-You SugarDaddy!

 

 

Aaron

[PeteD]

 

Neither ST or Amiga had enough colours to recreate some games as Streetfighter II for exemple.

 

Colours in total? ie it's palette not just on screen? If you think so then it's homework time again because you're only partially right.

Edited May 8, 2010 by PeteD

[DimensionX]

 

Neither ST or Amiga had enough colours to recreate some games as Streetfighter II for exemple.

 

Colours in total? ie it's palette not just on screen? If you think so then it's homework time again because you're only partially right.

 

On screen colours off course. ST used 16, Amiga 32, Megadrive 64 and Snes 256. Snes was the only one who could presented something real close to the arcade. Both ST and Amiga emulated lots of games that were a bit too hard for them to fully recreate. Often you had to get rid of some colours and make the sprites smaller.

[ceti331]

 

Amstrad CPC. [Runs like buggery away from the CPC fanboys =-]

 

 

not bad at all

[DimensionX]

And if you had been more polite, you would have been recived a more polite answer.

 

i started out polite despite your condescending attempts to "educate" a bunch of programmers with things you'd picked up from wikipedia; that's the point i could have been insulting because you were already insulting other people's intelligences.

 

Pure magic from an old computer who hade the best and most vivid colours around.

 

In your opinion.

 

Off course it is. I can't speak for anyone else.

[PeteD]

 

Neither ST or Amiga had enough colours to recreate some games as Streetfighter II for exemple.

 

Colours in total? ie it's palette not just on screen? If you think so then it's homework time again because you're only partially right.

 

On screen colours off course. ST used 16, Amiga 32, Megadrive 64 and Snes 256. Snes was the only one who could presented something real close to the arcade. Both ST and Amiga emulated lots of games that were a bit too hard for them to fully recreate. Often you had to get rid of some colours and make the sprites smaller.

 

So now it's the number of colours on screen that's important. I see.

 

Pete

[DimensionX]

 

Neither ST or Amiga had enough colours to recreate some games as Streetfighter II for exemple.

 

Colours in total? ie it's palette not just on screen? If you think so then it's homework time again because you're only partially right.

 

On screen colours off course. ST used 16, Amiga 32, Megadrive 64 and Snes 256. Snes was the only one who could presented something real close to the arcade. Both ST and Amiga emulated lots of games that were a bit too hard for them to fully recreate. Often you had to get rid of some colours and make the sprites smaller.

 

So now it's the number of colours on screen that's important. I see.

 

Pete

 

Only when you have a big palette to choose from.

 

Snes for exemple had 256 on screen colours AND a palette of over 32.000 colours to choose from.

Edited May 8, 2010 by DimensionX

[PeteD]

 

Neither ST or Amiga had enough colours to recreate some games as Streetfighter II for exemple.

 

Colours in total? ie it's palette not just on screen? If you think so then it's homework time again because you're only partially right.

 

On screen colours off course. ST used 16, Amiga 32, Megadrive 64 and Snes 256. Snes was the only one who could presented something real close to the arcade. Both ST and Amiga emulated lots of games that were a bit too hard for them to fully recreate. Often you had to get rid of some colours and make the sprites smaller.

 

So now it's the number of colours on screen that's important. I see.

 

Pete

 

Only when you have a big palette to choose from.

 

In which way? Big palette, small number of colours on screen or big palette, lots of onscreen?

 

*edit*

Ok, you edited as I was replying..

 

So I still don't understand how that equates to anything to do with the Atari? You've got less colours on screen than the C64 (without rainbows, definitely per scanline) but a bigger palette. I'm just not sure of the point you're making about dithering being bad.

Edited May 8, 2010 by PeteD

[DimensionX]

 

Neither ST or Amiga had enough colours to recreate some games as Streetfighter II for exemple.

 

Colours in total? ie it's palette not just on screen? If you think so then it's homework time again because you're only partially right.

 

On screen colours off course. ST used 16, Amiga 32, Megadrive 64 and Snes 256. Snes was the only one who could presented something real close to the arcade. Both ST and Amiga emulated lots of games that were a bit too hard for them to fully recreate. Often you had to get rid of some colours and make the sprites smaller.

 

So now it's the number of colours on screen that's important. I see.

 

Pete

 

Only when you have a big palette to choose from.

 

In which way? Big palette, small number of colours on screen or big palette, lots of onscreen?

 

To have a big palette to choose from like on Snes means that you can create any spreads for the 256 available on screen colours. That means more fine nuances to make everything look more real.

[PeteD]

 

To have a big palette to choose from like on Snes means that you can create any spreads for the 256 available on screen colours. That means more fine nuances to make everything look more real.

 

See above, I edited because you edited and you missed my edit..