Commodore 64 vs Atari 800 Xl

[DimensionX]

Well, yes. But if you look at such old computers as Atari and C64 it will be hard.

 

And you didn't say they had to be old. There are 8-bits less than five years old, just because you aren't aware of them doesn't mean they cease to be. The Commodore 16 can display up to eighty colours a line from it's 121 colour palette at 320x200, the Amstrad CPC Plus has a 4,096 colour palette and there are the others we named previously.

 

Oh, i thought that was quite obvious?

 

Whaddayanow...

 

[DimensionX]

Not if you read what i wrote in the blog.

 

Your blog is irrelevant to this discussion too.

 

Especially as it is in swedish.

 

It was more a fun spin off if anyone wants to compare C64 to ST side by side to see the difference between 8 and 16 bit.

 

Well, i agree of that C64 is better then A8 in some areas, no question about that. But what i like so much with good ol' A8 is it's colours and special way to display games. Perhaps A8 isn't technically as good as C64, but has it's charm for me and many others.

Edited May 8, 2010 by DimensionX

[TMR]

Well, yes. But if you look at such old computers as Atari and C64 it will be hard.

 

And you didn't say they had to be old. There are 8-bits less than five years old, just because you aren't aware of them doesn't mean they cease to be. The Commodore 16 can display up to eighty colours a line from it's 121 colour palette at 320x200, the Amstrad CPC Plus has a 4,096 colour palette and there are the others we named previously.

 

Oh, i thought that was quite obvious?

 

Of course it wasn't, there's nowhere in the post where you mention it and no context beforehand since those posts were massively off-topic. Assuming you were actually thinking about just old machines before i pointed out that you were wrong, you can't blame anyone else when you don't express yourself clearly.

 

Whaddayanow...

 

 

A lot more than you do, obviously.

[TMR]

Not if you read what i wrote in the blog.

 

Your blog is irrelevant to this discussion too.

 

Especially as it is in swedish.

 

This is a programming discussion so your blog is irrelevant regardless of language unless you've learnt to program since saying you couldn't.

 

Well, i agree of that C64 is better then A8 in some areas, no question about that. But what i like so much with good ol' A8 is it's colours and special way to display games.

 

This is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

 

Perhaps A8 isn't technically as good as C64, but has it's charm for me and many others.

 

As is this. And your repeating yourself is tantamount to trolling.

[DimensionX]

Well, yes. But if you look at such old computers as Atari and C64 it will be hard.

 

And you didn't say they had to be old. There are 8-bits less than five years old, just because you aren't aware of them doesn't mean they cease to be. The Commodore 16 can display up to eighty colours a line from it's 121 colour palette at 320x200, the Amstrad CPC Plus has a 4,096 colour palette and there are the others we named previously.

 

Oh, i thought that was quite obvious?

 

Of course it wasn't, there's nowhere in the post where you mention it and no context beforehand since those posts were massively off-topic. Assuming you were actually thinking about just old machines before i pointed out that you were wrong, you can't blame anyone else when you don't express yourself clearly.

 

Whaddayanow...

 

 

A lot more than you do, obviously.

 

How to type it correct in english?

 

That was supposed to mean

 

Whaddayanow

 

Where "ya" means me, not you.

 

In swedish we say

 

Vad vet man?

 

It means (straight translated)

 

What knows one?

Edited May 8, 2010 by DimensionX

[TMR]

How to type it correct in english?

 

That was supposed to mean

 

Whaddayanow

 

Where "ya" means me, not you.

 

"Ya" is a corruption of "you", so it means "what do you know".

[DimensionX]

Not if you read what i wrote in the blog.

 

Your blog is irrelevant to this discussion too.

 

Especially as it is in swedish.

 

This is a programming discussion so your blog is irrelevant regardless of language unless you've learnt to program since saying you couldn't.

 

Well, i agree of that C64 is better then A8 in some areas, no question about that. But what i like so much with good ol' A8 is it's colours and special way to display games.

 

This is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

 

Perhaps A8 isn't technically as good as C64, but has it's charm for me and many others.

 

As is this. And your repeating yourself is tantamount to trolling.

 

And you repeat yourself by calling people for trolls.

 

For me, A8 is best. For you, C64 is best.

 

I don't think that we can say much more about that?

 

Because if you say that C64 is the better machine, all people will not agree.

[DimensionX]

How to type it correct in english?

 

That was supposed to mean

 

Whaddayanow

 

Where "ya" means me, not you.

 

"Ya" is a corruption of "you", so it means "what do you know".

 

Thanks for making things a bit clearer. Sometimes i mess things up when trying to type in a language i don't master.

[DimensionX]

I'll better log out for now. This was a real marathon discussion.

 

Have a great weekend.

[TMR]

And you repeat yourself by calling people for trolls.

 

No, i'm only calling you a troll because that's what you're doing.

 

For me, A8 is best. For you, C64 is best.

 

I don't think that we can say much more about that?

 

We can because this is a programming discussion. You can't.

[potatohead]

Not if you read what i wrote in the blog.

 

Your blog is irrelevant to this discussion too.

 

Especially as it is in swedish.

 

This is a programming discussion so your blog is irrelevant regardless of language unless you've learnt to program since saying you couldn't.

 

Well, i agree of that C64 is better then A8 in some areas, no question about that. But what i like so much with good ol' A8 is it's colours and special way to display games.

 

This is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

 

Perhaps A8 isn't technically as good as C64, but has it's charm for me and many others.

 

As is this. And your repeating yourself is tantamount to trolling.

 

And you repeat yourself by calling people for trolls.

 

For me, A8 is best. For you, C64 is best.

 

I don't think that we can say much more about that?

 

Because if you say that C64 is the better machine, all people will not agree.

 

So, then how come you have so damn much trouble saying the reverse, which is true as well? There is a lot of great art on these old computers. Why work so hard to validate your appreciation of it?

 

Are you secretly afraid that, if you somehow appreciate what another machine can do, or the work of somebody on that other machine, you might find your conviction lacking?? It's a big retro world out there man. Lots of interesting machines, lots of game, demo, and picture art to enjoy...

 

TMR is right on this too. From a Programming perspective, it's entirely possible to establish the criteria, weigh the machines, and come to a determination as to which is better, given the criteria.

 

How else do you think people decide which machine to target for a particular project??

Edited May 8, 2010 by potatohead

[TMR]

TMR is right on this too. From a Programming perspective, it's entirely possible to establish the criteria, weigh the machines, and come to a determination as to which is better, given the criteria.

 

From a programming perspective it doesn't even have to be about which is better, just about the differences.

 

How else do you think people decide which machine to target for a particular project??

 

i doubt he understands any part of the process...

[potatohead]

Yes, differences. "Better" becomes part of the art, IMHO. All depends on how those differences are exploited.

 

TMR is right on this too. From a Programming perspective, it's entirely possible to establish the criteria, weigh the machines, and come to a determination as to which is better, given the criteria.

 

From a programming perspective it doesn't even have to be about which is better, just about the differences.

 

How else do you think people decide which machine to target for a particular project??

 

i doubt he understands any part of the process...

[DimensionX]

Not if you read what i wrote in the blog.

 

Your blog is irrelevant to this discussion too.

 

Especially as it is in swedish.

 

This is a programming discussion so your blog is irrelevant regardless of language unless you've learnt to program since saying you couldn't.

 

Well, i agree of that C64 is better then A8 in some areas, no question about that. But what i like so much with good ol' A8 is it's colours and special way to display games.

 

This is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

 

Perhaps A8 isn't technically as good as C64, but has it's charm for me and many others.

 

As is this. And your repeating yourself is tantamount to trolling.

 

And you repeat yourself by calling people for trolls.

 

For me, A8 is best. For you, C64 is best.

 

I don't think that we can say much more about that?

 

Because if you say that C64 is the better machine, all people will not agree.

 

So, then how come you have so damn much trouble saying the reverse, which is true as well? There is a lot of great art on these old computers. Why work so hard to validate your appreciation of it?

 

Are you secretly afraid that, if you somehow appreciate what another machine can do, or the work of somebody on that other machine, you might find your conviction lacking?? It's a big retro world out there man. Lots of interesting machines, lots of game, demo, and picture art to enjoy...

 

TMR is right on this too. From a Programming perspective, it's entirely possible to establish the criteria, weigh the machines, and come to a determination as to which is better, given the criteria.

 

How else do you think people decide which machine to target for a particular project??

 

Does it really need to be said?

 

Just look at this thread. If i say that A8 is the better computer, lots of people will not agree.

 

I think that TMR said the right thing. Is not about who's best, just about differences. And you as programmers are better suited to discuss that then me as a non programmer, or "once programmer". (visual studio) But that's far from A8 or C64.

[potatohead]

I'll admit it's hard to get a lot of colors on the screen, but I'd have to disagree that the palette itself is a weakness of the system. Atari allowed separate control over the hue and the luminance allowing you to make a color by combining the two. Pretty nifty. TV standards also require control over saturation (Chroma amplitude) if you want your bright colors to be pure. Well... that's where Atari had to cut corners. But none of the old 8-bitters had perfect video and Atari's method was pretty good.

 

Yep, color on the reference video for the Propeller is very similar. It's the same overall approach, and I like the look of it a lot. Would have been great to have some saturation control though... Maybe that can be an Atari mod of some kind one day. Take an unused port, seems there are plenty of them on the joysticks, and I hear they are damn fast too, and wire it to the video, for a saturation bump... A given scan line could then be stock, or bright, or faded...

[Bryan]

For me, A8 is best. For you, C64 is best.

 

I don't think that we can say much more about that?

 

That's exactly right. Stop trying to make anyone else here agree with you and just be an Atari guy. And since you're not really a programmer, why not hang out in the Atari forums?

 

I'm an Atari guy but I realize that someone who uses a different machine won't see things like I do. So I can argue my point, but I don't have to win. There's much more reward in doing something for the Atari community than winning a silly forum argument.

 

You know what else is even better than kicking someone's ass with irrefutable pro-Atari debate skillz? Helping 64 guys understand the finer points of the Atari so they get an urge to tinker with it. Then when you code something awesome, they'll want to know how it's done, and you'll look even more awesome.

 

 

 

 

edited for typing FAIL

Edited May 8, 2010 by Bryan

[potatohead]

(reconsidered)

 

I like Bryan's post much better

 

Yeah, what he said.

Edited May 8, 2010 by potatohead

[TMR]

You know what else is even better than kicking someone's ass with irrefutable pro-Atari debate skillz? Helping 64 guys understand the finer points of the Atari so they get an urge to tinker with it.

 

Just to clarify, this isn't what you were doing DimensionX...

[PeteD]

 

For me, A8 is best. For you, C64 is best.

 

 

*cough*

 

 

Admit it, you are a C64 freak who defends the machine to all costs.

 

I think that C64 and Atari are great, no one is the better computer.

 

I said it

 

Honestly

 

Can you?

 

No, you can't.

 

(how about that killer comment?)

[PeteD]

You know what else is even better than kicking someone's ass with irrefutable pro-Atari debate skillz? Helping 64 guys understand the finer points of the Atari so they get an urge to tinker with it.

 

Just to clarify, this isn't what you were doing DimensionX...

 

Come on, it it wasn't for him you wouldn't have written the Sodding Rainbows graphics pre-processor.

[DimensionX]

For me, A8 is best. For you, C64 is best.

 

I don't think that we can say much more about that?

 

That's exactly right. Stop trying to make anyone else here agree with you and just be an Atari guy. And since you're not really a programmer, why not hang out in the Atari forums?

 

I'm an Atari guy but I realize that someone who uses a different machine won't see things like I do. So I can argue my point, but I don't have to win. There's much more reward in doing something for the Atari community than winning a silly forum argument.

 

You know what else is even better than kicking someone's ass with irrefutable pro-Atari debate skillz? Helping 64 guys understand the finer points of the Atari so they get an urge to tinker with it. Then when you code something awesome, they'll want to know how it's done, and you'll look even more awesome.

 

 

 

 

edited for typing FAIL

 

I would be better of working on Atari ST in that case because ST feels more familiar to me after being a ST owner for many years. I still have my 1040 STE expanded to 2 MB left even if i use STeem 3.2 more these days. But the 8bit computers is good for a retrokick from the early 80's.

 

And never forget Bryan, that i can never make you think something because you have your own will, haven't you? I can't speak for anyone else, but me. And neither can you.

Edited May 8, 2010 by DimensionX

[DimensionX]

You know what else is even better than kicking someone's ass with irrefutable pro-Atari debate skillz? Helping 64 guys understand the finer points of the Atari so they get an urge to tinker with it.

 

Just to clarify, this isn't what you were doing DimensionX...

 

It isn't?

 

Are you serious? This can't be true.

 

And i belived that i inspired soo many people with my awesome programming techniques.

 

[TMR]

You know what else is even better than kicking someone's ass with irrefutable pro-Atari debate skillz? Helping 64 guys understand the finer points of the Atari so they get an urge to tinker with it.

 

Just to clarify, this isn't what you were doing DimensionX...

 

Come on, it it wasn't for him you wouldn't have written the Sodding Rainbows graphics pre-processor.

 

That implies that i actually coded it... and it's Sodding Rainbow (singular) okay?!

[TMR]

And i belived that i inspired soo many people with my awesome programming techniques.

 

 

No, this isn't any more relevant or funny than anything else you've posted.

[ceti331]

Ok,

which has better colors:-

 

Jupiter Ace or ZX81