VBXE 2

[Fox-1 / mnx]

It's funnier then it "sounds" :-)

 

Sampling analog audio (A->D) to store on digital media to replay with Covox (D->A) through HDMI (needs A->D) and finally listen to it (D->A)

[ataridano]

I just got my VBXE2 in the mail today!!! Sorry if this has already been covered but I re-read the whole thread and still wasn't clear on a few things.

 

1) it looks like, after I install the VBXE board, my origional video out and monitor plug will work exactly as they did before, but only for programs that don't use VBXE, right?

 

2) I would like to use an Atari SC1224 monitor, has anyone else done this? Looking at the pinout, it looks like it expects H-sync and V-sync and not composit-sync. What does VBXE output and is it possible to use the SC1224?

 

3) Has anyone else thought of replacing the 5 pin monitor DIN with a 13 pin DIN? Obviously I came up with the idea because that's what the SC1224 uses. Digikey carries them and it looks like the ST pinout has RGB, audio, and composit pins on the connector, even 12V (could be replaced with 5V to run a scan doubler). I DON'T want to cut an extra hole in the case and thought it would be kinda slick to have the RGB monitor connected to the port labled "monitor". I had also thought about using a 6 pin DIN similar to those used on some Amiga monitors. If I don't go that route I'll probably remove the modulator and run a cable out the hole to a DB9 as that seems like the most standard pre-VGA RGB plug, still not sure.

 

4) do I need to do anything extra to avoid problems with PBI devices, or should I be good as-is?

 

5) Does anyone have a good website with step by step instructions for installing in an NTSC 130XE, or should I just use the pics off of this thread?

 

Sorry for all the questions. Candle, you did a wonderful job putting these together, I of course want to try out the one I just got first but am already thinking about ordering one or two more if there's another build. I originally figured one would be worth getting if just for the 80 column text and clear RGB output... but now I'm getting kinda exciting because it looks like we might get that critical mass needed for this to be a "standard" upgrade with lots of software support!

[Rybags]

1. Yes. You'll get video from original GTIA, which never contains anything VBXE generates. VBXE itself replicates what GTIA does for it's RGB output.

 

2. VBXE doesn't generate any Sync signal. The existing Composite Sync is used from a point on the motherboard. Antic does generate distinct commands for HSync and VSync, so it would be theoretically possible to make a circuit which generates seperate H/V Sync but it wouldn't be simple, especially given that the HSync command is held continually during the vertical overscan area.

 

3. That's been done too. The "Show us your VBXE installs" thread has some pics.

 

4. The issues of contention are covered by doing a D7 install if you have D6 PBI devices, and running the "A" core if you have certain types of RAM expansion.

[+Stephen]

3) Has anyone else thought of replacing the 5 pin monitor DIN with a 13 pin DIN? Obviously I came up with the idea because that's what the SC1224 uses. Digikey carries them and it looks like the ST pinout has RGB, audio, and composit pins on the connector, even 12V (could be replaced with 5V to run a scan doubler). I DON'T want to cut an extra hole in the case and thought it would be kinda slick to have the RGB monitor connected to the port labled "monitor". I had also thought about using a 6 pin DIN similar to those used on some Amiga monitors. If I don't go that route I'll probably remove the modulator and run a cable out the hole to a DB9 as that seems like the most standard pre-VGA RGB plug, still not sure.

 

5) Does anyone have a good website with step by step instructions for installing in an NTSC 130XE, or should I just use the pics off of this thread?

 

Sorry for all the questions. Candle, you did a wonderful job putting these together, I of course want to try out the one I just got first but am already thinking about ordering one or two more if there's another build. I originally figured one would be worth getting if just for the 80 column text and clear RGB output... but now I'm getting kinda exciting because it looks like we might get that critical mass needed for this to be a "standard" upgrade with lots of software support!

Sorry I can only answer one of these. A few people here have used the 13-pin DIN. Another good suggestion given was a particular type of DIN-8 because the standard Atari 5-pin DIN monitor cable can retain pin compatibility, and the extra 3 pins of course will carry the RGB. I haven't decided which option I will be using yet. I kind of like the idea of using the same monitor cable for both my ST and A8, so am leaning towards the 13-pin.

 

So far there isn't a single source of detailed installation information. I'm struggling with my install at the moment, but I am taking a lot of pictures (1st batch will be posted here shortly - I am actually resizing and renaming them as I type this). I think the information will all start coming together soon.

 

Good luck!!

 

Stephen Anderson

[+Stephen]

1. Yes. You'll get video from original GTIA, which never contains anything VBXE generates. VBXE itself replicates what GTIA does for it's RGB output.

 

4. The issues of contention are covered by doing a D7 install if you have D6 PBI devices, and running the "A" core if you have certain types of RAM expansion.

Two questions (which I am sure have been asked before, but these threads are getting huge). Is there a need to use the original video out from the machine once you have the VBXE installed?

 

Was it mentioned what address the Speed Drive will use? I plan on getting one, so should I opt for the $D7 install just to be safe?

 

Stephen Anderson

[Rybags]

There's also Option C for the monitor jack which is to just leave everything else alone and install a seperate one.

 

That's easy for PAL users because we can just use the space otherwise occupied by the Channel Selector switch.

 

I went for a VGA type plug, simply because I already had a cable that adapts it to the Amiga monitor's input.

[DamageX]

Has anyone tried an LM1881N sync separator with the A8 before? I could use separate H/V sync myself, maybe then I wouldn't have to fiddle with my v-hold when I switch between the Atari and watching TV.

Edited January 31, 2010 by DamageX

[Rybags]

LM1881 Sync Seperator.pdf

 

It might be a goer, but going by the diagram on the datasheet:

 

It doesn't ouput a VSync signal until a return to Blanking Level has been received on Composite Sync.

That might be an issue for the Atari, I don't know. Because the Atari only returns to Blanking Level once per scanline instead of twice as per the "normal" specification for TV signals.

 

As such, you'd end up with a VSync pulse of two scanlines duration rather than three.

 

Also, you don't have any serrated pulses either side of the VSync and finally you don't have even/odd fields although I doubt that would be an issue.

[+Stephen]

Finally beginning work. Details at my AA blog here. Still an early WIP. Spent the last 2 hours putting the info up. Hope it will eventually be detailed enough for a nice install tutorial for a PAL 130XE with 1-bit RAMs.

 

Stephen Anderson

[ataridano]

 

2. VBXE doesn't generate any Sync signal. The existing Composite Sync is used from a point on the motherboard. Antic does generate distinct commands for HSync and VSync, so it would be theoretically possible to make a circuit which generates seperate H/V Sync but it wouldn't be simple, especially given that the HSync command is held continually during the vertical overscan area.

 

3. That's been done too. The "Show us your VBXE installs" thread has some pics.

 

4. The issues of contention are covered by doing a D7 install if you have D6 PBI devices, and running the "A" core if you have certain types of RAM expansion.

 

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Maybe I should ask #2 slightly differently, if the existing Composite Sync is being used... and some people are using an ST type connector, then what pin of that connector are they using for Sync?? I had totally missed the "Show us your VBXE installs" thread until now, I thought I was the only one thinking about the 13 pin DIN idea, glad to see that it's working for other people already, I think that's definetally the way I'll go.

 

The NTSC version has a channel selector switch too, but would take some carving to make a DB connector fit the hole.

 

Sounds like I should go with the D7 install just to play it safe.

 

As far as the need to use the origional video connection once VBXE is installed, I thought there were a couple reason where it might be nice. One, if I ever needed to re-flash the VBXE core, and two, if I ever wanted to use the Atari somewhere where an RGB monitor isn't handy. I don't know where that would be (or why I'd take my now-most-expensive Atari there) but you never know. Some ST models had a modulator output, and they include the composite out on pin 2 of the 13 pin monitor plug....so I plan to use that pin for the XE's current video output.

[Rybags]

What other "extra hardware" do you have, or are planning to install (re D6/D7) ?

 

I had the impression the ST colour monitor could handle Composite Sync. In such cases where there's no distinct pin input for it, you should try tying it to HSync.

[candle]

Dan, You're getting a cannon to shoot the sparrow

just connect Csync to Hsync, maybe also to Vsync and monitor circuity will do the rest no need for lm1881 here

 

i'm a bit absent these days on forum, but still here - just loads of work at the moment - deadline is tommorrow, and i don't think i'll keep it routing of DDR memory chip is real PITA - took me 2 days to complete, and i still in doubt if its all okay :/

[ataridano]

Dan, You're getting a cannon to shoot the sparrow

just connect Csync to Hsync, maybe also to Vsync and monitor circuity will do the rest no need for lm1881 here

 

i'm a bit absent these days on forum, but still here - just loads of work at the moment - deadline is tommorrow, and i don't think i'll keep it routing of DDR memory chip is real PITA - took me 2 days to complete, and i still in doubt if its all okay :/

 

Not trying to use a cannon to shoot a sparrow.... I'm looking for exactly what you wrote... just wondering how to correctly wire the sync signals on the monitor port. I totally understand about being busy, I've been the same way, and it will probably be a while before I actually install and test my VBXE2 board. One more quick question for you (or anyone else) while I'm writing. Is there any disadvantage to soldering the adaptor board to the motherboard directly instead of placing it in a socket? Other than the fact that I can't put it in another A8 easily of course.

 

Rybags: My "extra hardware" is a MIO, no other plans for mods or anything, but if any othe interesting PBI devices show up in the future I would like to be able to use them without a rewire.

[Rybags]

I doubt the adaptor would fit directly to the motherboard. As is on the 800XL, there was one capacitor in the way, which I replaced with another fitted such that I could just bend it over.

Also, the board itself, once plugged into the adaptor, doesn't fit flush, it angles up slightly due to clearance over other ICs (note I also like many others used a piece of insulating plastic underneath.

 

The other consideration is that if for any reason the board needed to come out, you have the entire desolder job all over again. In fact, it'd be much worse, as you'd have hardly any access from the top side.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Rybags

[candle]

I think Mathy and Beetle from Abbuc group have soldered their adapter boards directly in XE machines as they were for lowest profile

the only thing one can loose doing so wil be the ability to move adapter board to another machine, but adapters are quite cheap, and if in need - can be ordered separatly

but as Gary said - once soldered, should be treated as throw away board, because it might be verry hard to desolder it not using hot air/IR o preheater stations

[flashjazzcat]

It would be at least as difficult to move from one machine to another as an INTSDX with very limited access from the top side of the board. The OS ROM socket on one of my 65XE's looked like ground zero by the time I got the SDX board loose, so everything goes in a socket now. To heck with low profiles.

Edited February 1, 2010 by flashjazzcat

[+rdemming]

watching too much of AXN Sci-Fi channel lately?

seems like so...

 

Don't worry. I like the RGB output as it is

 

I started sunday with desoldering the ANTIC so I'm on my way. But progress is slowly since I've lots of other things to do.

 

But one thing confuses me. Maybe the answer is buried in this thread but I can't find it.

I have a 130XE with the big 14MHz oscillator in the bottom left corner (without the resistors) of the board instead of the small one with the resistors. On the photo of the 130XE 1-bit board it says you should move the small oscillator to the VBXE board but if you have the big one, it should stay on the motherboard.

Now it also says "14MHz out (Left pad of X1 on VBXE2, the J6 should be left unconnected)". From this I understand pin 2 of FREDDY should be soldered to the left X1 pad on the VBXE2.

But then it says: "Please let me know if you have this type of oscillator in your XE, or you'll have to buy crystal because VBXE won't work!". Does this mean I need to buy the small oscillator as shown in the "Option" box to place it on the VBXE board or don't I need an oscillator on the VBXE board because I have the big 14MHz oscillator on the motherboard?

 

I think if you have the big oscillator you should solder FREDDY pin 2 to X1 on VBXE board and no connections to J6 and no oscillator on the VBXE board.

And if you have the small oscillator it should be moved to VBXE board, remove Q4 and R8, FREDDY pin 2 should go to J6 pin 3 and GND to J6 pin 4.

But the remark about buying a crystal confused me. When do you need to buy a new crystal?

 

Thanks,

 

Robert

[candle]

refer to XEGS installation guide

You should also remove C24 and C25 caps on VBXE board (bottom side)

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

I haven't done anything with my VBXE's except look at the components in the plastic bags yet.

 

greetings

 

Mathy

[+rdemming]

I haven't done anything with my VBXE's except look at the components in the plastic bags yet.

 

Only looking at the very sexy VBXE hardware gives me already a warm feeling :D

 

You are not the only one. I only desoldered the ANTIC before I had to pick-up my girlfriend. I hope to continue Wednesday evening.

 

Robert

[Syfo-Dyas]

I haven't done anything with my VBXE's except look at the components in the plastic bags yet.

 

Only looking at the very sexy VBXE hardware gives me already a warm feeling :D

 

You are not the only one. I only desoldered the ANTIC before I had to pick-up my girlfriend. I hope to continue Wednesday evening.

 

Robert

 

 

I know that feeling!

 

Regardless, I hope to have mine installed as soon as I can get one, assuming I can get one.

[BigBen]

Hi candle,

 

I want one of the 130xe version of vbxe.

 

Greetings,

BigBen

[+bf2k+]

I have finished my install except for a cable hookup to monitor...

[jvas]

what do you think, which is the best memory upgrade of a vbxe2 equipped 130xe?

[flashjazzcat]

what do you think, which is the best memory upgrade of a vbxe2 equipped 130xe?

I believe the VBXE2 does or can emulate a Compy 320K machine on its own, but I have one of Lotharek's 1MB upgrade boards fitted alongside VBXE and I'm completely happy.