Silk Worm: WIP!

[emkay]

Just a "working" G2F mockup

 

 

 

 

The two "Hills" were built on the available 4 players. Approximately 10 DLIs have to be used there, moving the Players horizontally.

At least PM can be used for building the shapes of the background then....doing it this way.

[José Pereira]

*.PNG isn't very playable, though

Why not? Jose plays with PNGs all days

 

Because the coders don't start the code...

Indeed many start but they never finish...

 

I am not PG and that's probably I don't have a Mapa...

Seems that some guys are accepted and others don't.

 

Have to live with that... And also with some comments like this.

 

 

By the way, it's better to always go for the simple way, get the sprites and just move them on a clean background...

That's always the same, that will be always A8 without some kind of games.

All other 8bits have (good or bad versions but they have) but A8 is so good in 3D and can't have 2D scrolling shoots?

Probably don't have because people prefer to be here posting some comments than do some hard work to get it...

Edited November 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[José Pereira]

If want want my opinion or my work I would get it like this:

-> Use ANTIC4

-> PRIOR1 (all PMs above all gfxs/all PFs)

-> Get our Heli and Jeep more like Arcade/Amiga/NES bigger into 16pixels and use 2PMs Multicolour on each.

(only Flicker when they cross at the same scanlines like in Crownland,...)

-> Have the 4Missiles for free to do the shooting

-> The Enemys soft sprites only

11or12pixels can even be 13pixels and wider having more detail than C64 (13pixels it's the same as 11or12pixels in the shifting=all 4bytes)

16scanlines high would be 24scanlines with shifting=4x3chars each soft sprite

-> Colours:

BACKGR.- Dark Green on Enemy Helis/DLI/other dark colour on Ground Weapons (other colour on other Levels)

PF0- White (can change on other Levels)

PF1- Light Gray (can change on other Levels)

PF2 and PF3 would be Sky/Mountains/Floor

(possible like on that picture I posted with the PF0/PF1/Backgr dithering)

 

It would look better in 48bytes wide:

But it can also be in 32bytes wide if cycles needed to have more Enemys 'flying around:

 

 

 

 

 

Can't you have seven or eight 4x3chars (including shifting 'flying around'? I think you can but you have more work to do ]

And what it's best it's that in 32wide or whatever wide Mode you use the gfxs is that all moving stuff fits in just 3Charsets:

-> One on the sky (where the Helis move)

(all that 8Enemys and gfxs on my picture '.png' are only 112Chars including shifting)

-> Other on the last 6Char-lines (Walkway and Ground)

-> The third Charset on the Status area Hi-resolution

 

 

About CHARSETS:

This Mountains sequence gfxs with 8Helis moving (including shifting fits in less than 128chars=1Charset)

 

 

 

 

But you don't want my contribution...

Edited November 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[José Pereira]

And you can even have some nice 'diferent scanlines Parallax' and no problem with the Helis soft sprites as they move only on the 18Char-Lines Parallax 1st zone and others (like Ground Floor Tanks,...) would only move in 2nd Parallax zone 4Char-lines high...

 

But you don't want my ideas ...

Edited November 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[Tezz]

Here's a rough example to illustrate what I mentioned yesterday. The char usage per font strip for each levels background map (when chars are done correctly and not drawn freely here in this example) would be asigned appropriately for the soft sprite requirements.

silk.xex

Edited November 19, 2011 by Tezz

[José Pereira]

Here's a rough example to illustrate what I mentioned yesterday. The char usage per font strip for each levels background map (when chars are done correctly and not drawn freely here in this example) would be asigned appropriately for the soft sprite requirements.

 

Looks great but How's the colours distribution PFs?

Where have you there PF2&PF3?

(can't get understand that in the Monitor keying GTIA because of the different DLIs...)

[José Pereira]

Hey, tezz wait a minute, I've seen better the Monitor and you have all 4PMs as C6 colour...

Is it that Bush dark green colour?

 

But how have you the Black in the Helis because it's Background Register colour?

Edited November 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[Tezz]

Where have you there PF2&PF3?

4 pf colours on the whole. pf3 is used on the tops of the mountains only in this example but can be utilised further. the soft sprites dont use pf2

 

EDIT> $c6 are the sprites Jose

Edited November 19, 2011 by Tezz

[José Pereira]

Still don't see how???

 

Black it's Background register and like you said, then White and Green (of Helis) are PF0&PF1...

 

Ground and sky would be PF2 and the Top of Mountains PF3...

You sure, from what I've seen on Monitor covered the Bush with all 4PMs in quadruple width.

 

But if they are in quadruple width then how have you the Black on the Helis?

As Background Register colour it would show the PMs and at quadruple width how can you erase them pixel by pixel when an Heli(s) goes above?

[Tezz]

colbak is used only on the sprites. I have to leave for football now, I'm super late.. back later on.

[José Pereira]

Is C6 the Helis colour?

 

In PRIOR4 and because there's no Black on the gfxs it would make Helis possible but...

You would (or have) each enemy Heli as Double width 1PM for each and then the Missiles on our Heli?

 

 

An I geting it?

[José Pereira]

Now I get it (go to your Football, no problem):

 

BACKGR.- Black

PF0- dark gray

PF1- White/Light Gray

PF2- Sky and Bush

PF3- On the Top of the Mountains: Light Blue

 

Then each Enemy Heli are Double width (Players size=1) and Missiles are what?

What's size Missile $15=Decimal 21 (16+4+1=00010101) then what's this Misssiles width? Quadruple?

 

Sizes(Width) are:

Normal=0

Double=1

Quadruple=3

 

TIP: Type '?' for help, 'CONT' to exit

312 0 382D JMP $382D A=c0 S=fb X=ff Y=ff P=N-*B-I--

> gtia

HPOSP0=44 HPOSP1=54 HPOSP2=68 HPOSP3=88 HPOSM0=30 HPOSM1=34

HPOSM2=38 HPOSM3=00 SIZEP0=01 SIZEP1=01 SIZEP2=01 SIZEP3=01

SIZEM= 15 GRAFP0=00 GRAFP1=00 GRAFP2=00 GRAFP3=00 GRAFM =00

COLPM0=c6 COLPM1=c6 COLPM2=c6 COLPM3=c6 COLPF0=04 COLPF1=0c

COLPF2=72 COLPF3=78 COLBK= 00 PRIOR= 04 VDELAY=00 GRACTL=03

>

 

 

 

 

Missiles widest wouldn't probably turn impossible to cover the Helis and Jeep in different frames/shapes?

And like this we have only 4Enemys by Line, I think...

Edited November 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

Here's a rough example to illustrate what I mentioned yesterday. The char usage per font strip for each levels background map (when chars are done correctly and not drawn freely here in this example) would be asigned appropriately for the soft sprite requirements.

 

Put a super CPU in and have fun playing the game then

 

All the enemies, shots, shield, groundstations... etc... pp ...

 

Simply forget it.

You know, charmode takes more cycles and the handling of the objects costs even more cycles. Or were we talking about a slideshow?

[José Pereira]

Here's a rough example to illustrate what I mentioned yesterday. The char usage per font strip for each levels background map (when chars are done correctly and not drawn freely here in this example) would be asigned appropriately for the soft sprite requirements.

 

Put a super CPU in and have fun playing the game then

 

All the enemies, shots, shield, groundstations... etc... pp ...

 

Simply forget it.

You know, charmode takes more cycles and the handling of the objects costs even more cycles. Or were we talking about a slideshow?

 

I am normally, normally used to that 'slideshow and pngs' talking about me...

But I think we all know who Tezz is...

 

Emkay are you saying that Tezz is only posting a screen like I usually do?

 

The Tezz picture or mine uses the same stuff but just different way of where to use the PMs...

I have the right to think that my ideas work, at least some of them...

But when I talk, change ideas with coders like Tezz and others I am more sure about it

 

Mine and Tezz are just pictures because there's no time and no one to code them

Edited November 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

Here's a rough example to illustrate what I mentioned yesterday. The char usage per font strip for each levels background map (when chars are done correctly and not drawn freely here in this example) would be asigned appropriately for the soft sprite requirements.

 

Put a super CPU in and have fun playing the game then

 

All the enemies, shots, shield, groundstations... etc... pp ...

 

Simply forget it.

You know, charmode takes more cycles and the handling of the objects costs even more cycles. Or were we talking about a slideshow?

 

I am normally, normally used to that 'slideshow and pngs' talking about me...

But I think we all know who Tezz is...

 

Emkay are you saying that Tezz is only posting a screen like I usually do?

 

I know what Tezz is doing and has done coding the Atari. But also he hasn't done a real miracle. Remember Bomb Jack is only 32 Bytes (Silkworm needs 48 bytes) and there are not much moving objects on the screen, compared to Silkworm.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pflxAOCmMoo

 

Btw: 32 bytes hires... also a solution

Edited November 19, 2011 by emkay

[José Pereira]

Even in 32bytes it could work with only one less sprite each line but the our Heli and Jeep could have a different colour than the Enemys:

 

Tezz is using PRIOR4 and the priority works like this (higher->less priority):

5th Player 4Missiles

PF0

PF1

PF2

PF3

P0

P1

P2

P3

 

This is beacuse if it is really need to Mask the Players underlays of the Enemys on the side Borders:

As it's not difficult to set up the same PF3 colour all screen high you can now have PF3 to use as the 4Missiles 5th Player.

Missiles in Quadruple Width will be allmost screen high: two on left Border and the other two on the right side.

This 4Missiles have the highest Priority and will cover all the Player underlays on the Enemys when they, on the left or the right side enter on screen.

 

Nothing is impossible, just have to think and some hard work

Edited November 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

Nothing is impossible, just have to think and some hard work

 

And 2-1=1 and 1-1=0

 

If you reach 0 you can do work eternally and the result will still be 0

Or in Atari words: If 0 cpu cycles left, no progress on the screen ...

Using full charmode or turn to a double scanline mode, is like pulling the CPU from 1MHz to 3MHz.

Charmode is only usable, if you have many reusable moving objects. Otherwise it is useless.

 

Sometimes it is ridiculous to me, people decide to reduce the screensize , but using fullscreen "gr.7" solves all problems....aaahhhh ... don't use it...don't use it

[José Pereira]

Nothing is impossible, just have to think and some hard work

 

And 2-1=1 and 1-1=0

 

If you reach 0 you can do work eternally and the result will still be 0

Or in Atari words: If 0 cpu cycles left, no progress on the screen ...

Using full charmode or turn to a double scanline mode, is like pulling the CPU from 1MHz to 3MHz.

Charmode is only usable, if you have many reusable moving objects. Otherwise it is useless.

 

Sometimes it is ridiculous to me, people decide to reduce the screensize , but using fullscreen "gr.7" solves all problems....aaahhhh ... don't use it...don't use it

 

Tezz is watching it's football team playing,..

I have to leave for football now, I'm super late.. back later on.

As I said, Tezz knows what's the idea and for sure will answer you when he comes back

[Tezz]

ok, I'm back now, we won thanks Jose, yes that's it, the four double sized players are used as underlays for the soft sprites and three double size missiles provide the underlay for our heli.

 

Emkay, 40 bytes wide is acceptable for the game and yes it is possible to do without an 816 upgrade.

 

It'll be best for me to create a runniing demo next I guess.

[José Pereira]

ok, I'm back now, we won thanks Jose, yes that's it, the four double sized players are used as underlays for the soft sprites and three double size missiles provide the underlay for our heli.

 

Emkay, 40 bytes wide is acceptable for the game and yes it is possible to do without an 816 upgrade.

 

It'll be best for me to create a runniing demo next I guess.

 

That would be great if that don't take your precious time to finish MM...

Thanks.

[emkay]

ok, I'm back now, we won thanks Jose, yes that's it, the four double sized players are used as underlays for the soft sprites and three double size missiles provide the underlay for our heli.

 

Emkay, 40 bytes wide is acceptable for the game and yes it is possible to do without an 816 upgrade.

 

It'll be best for me to create a runniing demo next I guess.

 

40 bytes + scrolling is 48 bytes.

And, a running demo doesn't really help. Except you move approx. 30 objects (resembling main sprites, enemies, bases, shots , and shields )

[José Pereira]

ok, I'm back now, we won thanks Jose, yes that's it, the four double sized players are used as underlays for the soft sprites and three double size missiles provide the underlay for our heli.

 

Emkay, 40 bytes wide is acceptable for the game and yes it is possible to do without an 816 upgrade.

 

It'll be best for me to create a runniing demo next I guess.

 

40 bytes + scrolling is 48 bytes.

And, a running demo doesn't really help. Except you move approx. 30 objects (resembling main sprites, enemies, bases, shots , and shields )

 

Exaggerated...

 

Ground stuff Bases/Weapons/... are static, Bullets/shoot can be in chars.

 

Maximum on screen in C64 version it's 2Attacking waves with 4 each (or 4 one and a second approaching with 5Enemys) more our Heli and Jeep.

 

C64 eight sprites, then 2 are on our Heli and Jeep that gets six sprites free...

On Tezz you have four Enemys possible each line...

 

On C64 I don't see more than 4or5 Enemys each line.

Multiplex Enemys and it would be like C64...

 

Each sprite have 4or5 shapes each and most of the times many of the Enemys on screen have the same shape and that is also a good thing...

 

 

Hipotetical talking from you it's just or more or less the same as my PNGs.

 

Demo don't show nothing?

Do you want what? That Tezz code a complete Level just to be a proof to show you ...

If he spend his time with a Demo of our Helli and Jeep and Enemys Hellis 'flying around' would be a Proof, isn't it?

Edited November 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[José Pereira]

Where are the 30 sprites?

 

There not more than 5Enemy Hellis by line and 4most of the times (8maximum on screen each time)...

 

White, Light Gray and Blacks on the Rockets/Flying Bombs are exactly the colour Tezz have in it's screen as PFs...

Normal Shoot White it's PF and it's moving/replaced in char steps...

Ground Weapons are static...

[emkay]

Where are the 30 sprites?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gl9ZU-88E8

 

There not more than 5Enemy Hellis by line and 4most of the times (8maximum on screen each time)...

 

White, Light Gray and Blacks on the Rockets/Flying Bombs are exactly the colour Tezz have in it's screen as PFs...

Normal Shoot White it's PF and it's moving/replaced in char steps...

Ground Weapons are static...

 

Not all enemies are just as small as in the WIP demo.

 

You want the Background?

Then look a bit closer at the bases and mines.... they move "parallax" and were animated , so the have to be handled like moving objects.

So your "5" sprites can get very fast to "10" Sprites per Line.

[Eagle]

I have to disappoint you guys.

I will not change the engine because I started with the assumptions they are.

I will try to do the best I can, and put on the gameplay.

On the Atari does not have too many games of this type.

And I'm doing it just for this that I promised that one day I'll finish, and for my son.

I want to play with him in it at Christmas when he comes to me.

With the above ideas would have to wait until next year.

I started writing this game to a little break from my other (serious) projects for JIL.

I hope to finish the first level next week.

Of course, I appreciate your ideas, but may be using them next time.

 

Regards.

Eagle