The homebrew flood ... good thing, right?

[Games For Your Intellivision]

I think the only Homebrews I've purchased have been DK Arcade and DK2, both of which were in digital format. I just can't justify 50 or 75 dollars when I'm only interested in playing the game and not having a box, manual, and recycled shell with a new sticker on it. I also have too many other hobbies.

 

To be clear.....Elektronite games do not use a recycled shell with a new sticker on it. They are all new materials. Regardless of that, we sell a 'budget' release that includes a circuit board, manual and overlays for about $40 US shipped. We haven't done that for all of our releases yet, but eventually will except for Boulder Dash. Boulder Dash will never come out in Digital format either. And, don't even bother trying to dump it, you won't be able to. We might be able to cut down the price of the 'budget' release even more by supplying ONLY a circuit board, and have the user supply a shell and make their own label. Obviously, we want to get games in people's hands, but the circuit board is the most expensive part of the package, and one has to take the programmer's pay into consideration as well.

[wileyc]

 

And, don't even bother trying to dump it, you won't be able to.

 

Um ... are you sure you want to tempt fate like that? Of course it can be dumped (though it might require desoldering the ROM and reading via an EPROM burner); whether the resultant binary can be played on a console without cloning the cartridge board is a different story

 

(no offense intended ... I'm just mindful of the many MANY people who developed "unbreakable" copy-protection schemes that ended up being trivially circumvented)

[+cvga]

It's certainly fun to look forward to new releases for my favorite classic systems. I've really enjoyed the resurgence in new games although I'm sometimes bummed out when I miss out on one because I didn't notice in time or have to make decisions because my funds are limited. I do know that I've really enjoyed getting new games, supporting homebrewers, and being able to continue to add games to those collections that only need the rarest of the rares. Hats off to all you making making incredible games with fantastic packaging for us. I don't expect all of the "boutique" manufactures to be around forever so I'm trying to enjoy it while I can.

[+thegoldenband]

The more games the better, right? I hope no one feels obligated to buy every release.

Obligated, no, but I like the idea of working toward a complete collection of unique titles, and there's a satisfaction in knowing you have all of something. As a person on a seriously tight budget, I can't afford to spend money on something with no real worthwhile gameplay. And when games are released that aren't really worth playing, it makes it harder to justify buying homebrews to myself, let alone to my (very tolerant) other half!

 

I think the Atari 2600 scene has been harmed somewhat by the substantial number of half-assed homebrews which really haven't received enough careful attention and tuning. I'm not talking about games released by AtariAge, which are generally strong, but there have been independent cart releases of games that had no business getting sold for money. Certainly I lost some enthusiasm for that scene when I started seeing a lot of games that weren't anywhere near the standard of Thrust!, Crazy Balloon, Man Goes Down, etc. That's a very high standard, of course, but I still think every homebrew that comes out should feel like it's gotten one hell of a lot of TLC from the developer.

 

Pretty much everything that's come out for Intellivision has been quality, and some of it has been exceptionally good, e.g. Stonix. I wouldn't want to see that quality start to drop, and especially wouldn't want to see a lot of collectibles put out for collecting's sake, but without the gameplay to back them up.

 

How does everyone feel about the unreleased Mattel games?

 

Some that have not been released are not super fun and may be incomplete it have glitches. There may be a small demand regardless to see them released in CIB form for nostalgia's sake. Thoughts?

 

Because I heard a rumor some crazy guy was going to try and release a bunch if them....

Those are right on the borderline, since repros of unreleased classic-era titles are a different issue vs. a new homebrew that isn't up to today's standards. Personally I think it's better to wait and find someone willing to fix the bugs or complete the game, like King of the Mountain. If the game really has no gameplay value, I don't know...to me, that just seems like a tchotchke made for its own sake, like an Intellivision Beanie Baby. But I don't see the charm in repros of half-completed software for any system; that's what flash carts are for.

[Rhomaios]

 

To be clear.....Elektronite games do not use a recycled shell with a new sticker on it. They are all new materials. Regardless of that, we sell a 'budget' release that includes a circuit board, manual and overlays for about $40 US shipped. We haven't done that for all of our releases yet, but eventually will except for Boulder Dash. Boulder Dash will never come out in Digital format either. And, don't even bother trying to dump it, you won't be able to. We might be able to cut down the price of the 'budget' release even more by supplying ONLY a circuit board, and have the user supply a shell and make their own label. Obviously, we want to get games in people's hands, but the circuit board is the most expensive part of the package, and one has to take the programmer's pay into consideration as well.

 

I don't mind a full on cart, but I know many of us don't care for the box for space reasons. I prefer cart and manual only for anything that comes in a cardboard box.

[+Lathe26]

...

I think the Atari 2600 scene has been harmed somewhat by the substantial number of half-assed homebrews which really haven't received enough careful attention and tuning. I'm not talking about games released by AtariAge, which are generally strong, but there have been independent cart releases of games that had no business getting sold for money. Certainly I lost some enthusiasm for that scene when I started seeing a lot of games that weren't anywhere near the standard of Thrust!, Crazy Balloon, Man Goes Down, etc. That's a very high standard, of course, but I still think every homebrew that comes out should feel like it's gotten one hell of a lot of TLC from the developer.

 

...

 

This really nails it. It is better to have fewer games that are high quality rather than many games that are questionable.

 

In the end, wasn't it the flood of low-quality games that caused the video game crash of 1983?

 

That all said, for the amount has been announced for the Intellivision so far for 2014 (and yet to be announced), I'm not concerned.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

Um ... are you sure you want to tempt fate like that? Of course it can be dumped (though it might require desoldering the ROM and reading via an EPROM burner); whether the resultant binary can be played on a console without cloning the cartridge board is a different story

 

(no offense intended ... I'm just mindful of the many MANY people who developed "unbreakable" copy-protection schemes that ended up being trivially circumvented)

 

 

What eprom? Have you opened up an Elektronite game? It uses an LTO JLP board. You wouldn't be able to desolder the chip the game is stored on without probably killing it, and it certainly can't be read by an eprom burner. I know of at least one attempt to dump D2K unsuccessfully. And, D2K doesn't use the latest protection. If you plug in Carol for example, into a dumper, you will get 'dead air'. There are ways, to get the rom, but I it would take a lot of tech and Intellivision programming ability.

[+DZ-Jay]

If you plug in Carol for example, into a dumper, you will get 'dead air'. There are ways, to get the rom, but I it would take a lot of tech and Intellivision programming ability.

 

It's not that hard to get the ROM.

 

Seriously, who cares? This thread is not about the merits and strengths of DRM in home-brews, but about the sustainability of development in a supposedly saturated market.

 

I'm with catsfolly on this: lets wait and see what actually comes out, and how they come out. Right now, I can tell you that at least my future games are vaporware. They were never announced. They were just listed in my "works-in-progress" in my profile, and Rev put them up in his list publicly as if they were somewhat official. I'll be working on them, sure; but the release dates are mostly wishful thinking.

 

dZ.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

Leave it to you, the thread cop, to determine what is and what isn't appropriate to discuss. If you are so concerned about the flow of the conversation, why bother posting your rom? Could it be that you can't resist an opportunity to promote yourself?

 

And, you give the rom away.....big deal.....the message was a reply about the difficulty of dumping a JLP protected rom, not about your game.

[+DZ-Jay]

Jeesh, everything is a personal attack on you. Wow. I posted the link as a joke because you did mention how difficult it was to acquire the ROM of my game. I would have imagine the smiley face gave it away.

 

And speaking of self-promotion, who invited boastful comments of how perfectly protectable is your DRM technology in a discussion about the availability of home-brew games?

 

The rest of my comment was trying to steer it back on topic. The point is that what we have is a bunch of announcements for 2014, not actual games. Some of them were actually first announced for 2012, then on 2013... who's to say what's going to happen in 2014?

 

We can worry about a 1983-style glut in the market when that actually happens, no?

 

-dZ.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

You always rely on the 'smiley' defence......ok, fine......let's say it really wasn't a snarky comment directed at me personally,...it is still a snarky comment..........so in the future when you feel the need to make a snarky comment on things I say.......just don't. Then you won't have me jumping down your throat......how does that work for you?

 

It isn't your 'job' to get threads back on topic. It was one response to a reply to ME, not you.

 

Boastful self promotion? From the master of boastful self promotion? You are truly the kettle calling the pot black. Hardly self promotion.....it isn't my protection, it is Left Turn Only's.....and I only mentioned it in passing, as a point of interest. Regardless, sales of roms (which happened to be a feature of this thread) won't happen for Boulder Dash because of the contract.

 

Aside from that, regarding gluts of games.......I doubt it will happen because these games take a lot of effort to get out.

[san-d-2000]

if there are too many bad releases people will start to hold off on buying them

 

I use to buy all Coleco homebrew, but now I only buy the ones I think I'll like.

Same here

[+DZ-Jay]

Same here

 

I absolutely understand that, but does it mean programmers will stop making games, or would they just step up on the quality? If we consider the home-brew scene as primarily a labour of love and expression, I don't see programmers halting their efforts. Perhaps the collateral will get affected, and we'll see more cart-only or ROM-only releases.

 

I also believe that a growing number of titles will attract more people, which in turn will attract more programmers, whom will then make more games. In turn, the tools are improved, which in itself opens up the platform for a wider group of programmers, and on it goes. I consider this a very positive outcome.

 

-dZ.

[+Gemintronic]

I think the Atari 2600 scene has been harmed somewhat by the substantial number of half-assed homebrews which really haven't received enough careful attention and tuning. I'm not talking about games released by AtariAge, which are generally strong, but there have been independent cart releases of games that had no business getting sold for money. Certainly I lost some enthusiasm for that scene when I started seeing a lot of games that weren't anywhere near the standard of Thrust!, Crazy Balloon, Man Goes Down, etc. That's a very high standard, of course, but I still think every homebrew that comes out should feel like it's gotten one hell of a lot of TLC from the developer.

 

Unless you give clear examples your premise is hard to understand.

[slab0meat]

I understand the premise just fine.

[+Gemintronic]

I understand the premise just fine.

 

 

Well, then give examples. Otherwise it's just bias and slander. If you're going to risk being rude then at least back up your statements. Keep this an adult conversation and be responsible for your words.

 

@thegoldenband: Not talking about you You just needed clarity.

 

UPDATE: I guess slab0meat decided to pop in, make an insulting remark and quickly go offline. I guess I was asking too much.

[youki]

I think he just means there is good and bad in homebrew productions. Not all would deserve a cartridge release.

[+Gemintronic]

Not all are meant for a cartridge release. I kinda assumed we were talking about cart releases here. If we're going to make a constructive comparison between Atari 2600 efforts and Intellivision we need solid examples of releases.

 

Without specifics it's just a blanket statement without merit.

[+LS650]

I can think of a few examples of homebrew releases that I consider nearly unplayable, including releases from AA.

 

If you really want names, I'll PM you, as I'd prefer not to stir up angry feelings - but yes, I can think of several examples.

[+Gemintronic]

I can think of a few examples of homebrew releases that I consider nearly unplayable, including releases from AA.

 

If you really want names, I'll PM you, as I'd prefer not to stir up angry feelings - but yes, I can think of several examples.

 

I'd appreciate that. Especially if it's my own. Gaming is something we all love. If we can't express ourselves as a community - both negative and positive feedback - then retro gaming will become a dwindling, secretive clique without ever improving or growing.

[Rev]

What constitutes a good game to some people may not be to others.

 

I'll give examples, but not of homebrews. 2 Original games for intellivision come to mind. Popeye and white water. I have heard some people day these 2 games are horrible, but they are two of my favorite to play.

 

Just sayin'

Edited January 15, 2014 by revolutionika

[+Gemintronic]

What constitutes a good game to some people may not be to others.

 

I'll give examples, but not of homebrews. 2 Original games for intellivision come to mind. Popeye and white water. I have heard some people day these 2 games are horrible, but they are two of my favorite to play.

 

Just sayin'

 

White Water looks like Toobin'. Toobin' had whacky controls but I dug it. By explaining at least the name of the game I was able to make an informed opinion on your statement.

 

I'd agree that people can have widely varying tastes. It's just sad when we enthusiasts can't have an open, constructive conversation about it.

[108 Stars]

There's a lot of brown nosing when it comes to homebrews and their makers here. People don't want to offend them (and possibly demotivate them) I guess. Which in turn kind of kills any constructive criticism sadly.

[+Gemintronic]

There's a lot of brown nosing when it comes to homebrews and their makers here. People don't want to offend them (and possibly demotivate them) I guess. Which in turn kind of kills any constructive criticism sadly.

 

I guess that whole situation is alien to me. As a developer any feedback is solid gold - especially for indie devs.

 

I'll leave the situation alone, then. All I ask is that people please PM me if something of mine needs some feedback. Constructive criticism doesn't have to be a bad thing

[+nanochess]

Constructive criticism is a must for a good developer. Personally I always take in account any comment.

 

By example, the first version of Mecha-8 was developed in emulator using an enhanced MSX2 palette, but in a real MSX1 the colors badly bleeded.

 

I could have stand in a position of "I'm perfect," but I gave a look and recognized I could do it better, and I gave a careful analysis to all comments received (more that fifty) and the improved game ended in a pretty much enhanced cartridge for MSX and Colecovision.