FPGA Based Videogame System

[Tanooki]

11 hours ago, impetus_maximus said:

it was (is?) but says pre-orders are shipping winter 2023. RetroUSB store has a 'buy' button for the AVS. do they now have stock, or is that still pre-order? 🤔 i'm glad i bought one when i did. was waiting for the HighDefNES be in stock for my top loader, and then that went EOL (end of life) 😵 seems they were busy fitting them to top loaders where some were paying $700 on FleaBay for one? WTF

 

it is strange. if Analog do go back to the NES, for the love of god make the cartridge slot better! aluminum wet dream case with a shet slot.

 

the EverDrive N8 Pro is awesome. love how it keeps you at the same point in the menus when you re-enter it. (looking at you FXPAK Pro!) also love the save states. can get good at games i never thought i would beat. yeah just in hacks and translations there is a TON of fun to be had for sure. then you look at all the new homebrew/inde games!

Hmm well I'm using the HiDefNES Kit in the top loader as it is.  I was planning to sell the thing to get the AVS at one rate, but then that tax change hit and I ran out of time, so I stuck with it.  It's fantastic, and I enjoy the original aesthetic of the thing too, but I'd prefer newer hardware in the case of that one, much like how I have an original SNES (1chip), NES (Action Set), and N64 (Atomic Purple) CIB here that are put up.  I've got the Super nt, MegaSg and my day1 N64 with the UltraHDMI install on that.  I like to have a backup because the bloody costs keep going up on good quality systems and these things are quite cherry.

 

There was someone I saw selling the nt noir but they want $700 I think (on here or one other forum I'm on) and it's insane but that's close to what the hidefnes kit still sells for in an excellent quality console, but odds are slim to none finding a trade.

 

I'm using an original everdrive n8, the only kind of upgraded one I use would be the v2 of the n64 for the instant save and a few perks, that's it.  Everdrive GB, GGv2, and N8 are non-pro and suit me fine especially with those prices too, no benefit.  GBA I've got the ezflash omega, it's just better.  No kit on the MVS or Virtual Boy, too costly and they'd largely sit.

[M-S]

I don't like when companies release a completely empty announcement like that so people speculate and generate hype, but I think it's easier to think about what they are not making. I think they are not making a computer, a Neo Geo, a cheaper version of one of their past consoles or an Atari. Let's see if I get it right.

[Atariboy]

Given the October 16th tradition, I'm surprised that Analogue even feels the need to tease it.

 

I suppose it's a bit of extra media attention though.

[Tanooki]

I like the idea of them not doing what they already did, other than they have 2 very dated choices of which one would be an easy cash cow (NES) given how horribly priced it is, and given what competition there is with the AVS which they can meet/exceed (scoreboard aside) and the hyperkin awfulness.  Duo is a mess, a preorder mess, for all we know that is the 16th, they'll have it ready for sale in some fashion.  I think it could even be possible given the BS to put up with using the Sega 16bit add-ons, perhaps using the duo optical drive supplier could maybe do a SegaCD+32X combo unit to plug into the existing system for at/under $200.  That kind of would make sense without re-doing the existing.  The other maybe a stretch, but again they have a drive supplier, why not PS1 as that's an utter monster.

[Punisher5.0]

N64!

 

https://www.analogue.co/3d

[Ricdeau]

44 minutes ago, Punisher5.0 said:

N64!

 

https://www.analogue.co/3d

4k resolution, this one is going to be pricey.

[Tanooki]

A friend of mine local asked me about this one.  My basic understanding of what an FPGA and how it basically works I shared, and it really got me thinking.

 

How much is this going to cost in the end as they love to turn a healthy profit.  I've heard in not a distant past even a PS1 on FPGA would be pretty meaty and have a cost under it which is why it wasn't done yet, and the N64 is a good leap ahead, quite a bit heavier than that so I'm wondering how the hell they pulled it off and again, at what cost?!

 

Also Duo, they can't even get their shit together on that one, they've left people twisting for a year.   Is N64 even plausible to hit the end of 2024 or is this another cracked out hype machine to get tens of thousands out of their mindless drones of followers to then maybe ship it a in 2025 or later?  This seems like a bit of a stretch even for them.  As it is, even on the existing pocket they've jacked the price up twice now from 200 to 220 to now 250 for the basic handheld.

[RobDangerous]

Actually hoped they would do something less ambitious so they also have time to refine what they have, considering how far behind they are on their schedules, especially for Pocket things. And also because my N64 is already perfect with the N64Digital. MiSTer N64 is also coming together very quickly. Oh well. Impressive though and sure to create a lot of buzz.

[Tanooki]

9 minutes ago, RobDangerous said:

Actually hoped they would do something less ambitious so they also have time to refine what they have, considering how far behind they are on their schedules, especially for Pocket things. And also because my N64 is already perfect with the N64Digital. MiSTer N64 is also coming together very quickly. Oh well. Impressive though and sure to create a lot of buzz.

That may be it, just begging for attention.  They don't necessarily have to deliver in 2024.  There is no promise other than something n64 in 2024, not a release of it, it could just be a preorder next Christmas to get away with not actually lying.  And that's the rub there in the end they can't do pocket right, can't get a working dock going as advertised, and the Duo is an ever delayed until released piece of vaporware.  It wasn't long ago we had fun crapping all over the shenanigans delays and excuse peddling of the coleco chameleon among others.  I wonder how long they'll continue to get a free pass on stuff.

 

I can't see paying them for this, can only guess what their gougy shipping will be on something of this size too.  I've got my day 1 n64 with UltraHDMI inside it (still with original parts enabled), and just got a CIB atomic system too as well.  I don't need nor want another HDMI 64, let alone, from them, given their record post SNES/Genesis.  Another maker of a good product letting their love go to their arrogant heads.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Tanooki

[Kaide]

2 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

A friend of mine local asked me about this one.  My basic understanding of what an FPGA and how it basically works I shared, and it really got me thinking.

 

How much is this going to cost in the end as they love to turn a healthy profit.  I've heard in not a distant past even a PS1 on FPGA would be pretty meaty and have a cost under it which is why it wasn't done yet, and the N64 is a good leap ahead, quite a bit heavier than that so I'm wondering how the hell they pulled it off and again, at what cost?!

 

As RobDangerous points out, the N64 Mister core is coming along surprisingly well. The DE10-Nano uses the same FPGA that Analogue has been using for a while now. The Pocket is a dual FPGA setup where the second FPGA is used for video output, which helps share the load without going for a much more expensive monolithic FPGA. In terms of hardware complexity, the differences between the N64 and PS1 don’t necessarily translate into more or less space on an FPGA. It’s a good rule of thumb, but is probably more useful when comparing between console generations. Newer processes meant higher transistor density, which means more complex circuits can be designed in the same area of silicon. I don’t know enough to really say much about the PS1 vs N64 in terms of transistor count + density across all the chips that you need to reimplement (it’s not just the CPU or GPU). 

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a console version of the Pocket in terms of hardware. Maybe a beefier secondary FPGA for the 4K output and CRT simulation. So the cost really depends a lot on that secondary FPGA and how similar it is to the Pocket setup. 

 

[Atariboy]

Analogue's CEO has confirmed it's only one FPGA. 

 

"If we wanted to offer Analogue 3D with openFPGA (which is not the purpose or focus of the product)," Analogue founder Christopher Taber wrote to Ars, "it would require not only a second FPGA, but an even more powerful base FPGA,  therefore increasing the price to a price that doesn't suit our goals."

 

For some other updates on their products, they've said this on social media.

• Analogue Duo is shipping end of 2023.
• Analogue Pocket Adapters are on target to ship by end of 2023.
• Analogue OS 2.0 will be released by end of 2023 (with openFPGA display mode support)
• DAC support with Analogue Dock/Analogue Pocket is coming early next year - we're working hard to make DAC support meet our standards to be the definitive way to connect to legacy CRTs & PVMs.

[impetus_maximus]

wondering what this release announcement will do for the price of N64 systems/games.

i have my original N64 and a bunch of games, but no desire to play any of them.

even back when i was playing it after i got it, i'd picked up my SNES and found that to be more fun.

[Punisher5.0]

The sneak peek of the controller looks promising. Im glad there is proper c buttons and not a second joy stick. I tried playing Goldeneye on the Switch and just could not play with two sticks.

[AtariNerd]

Do feel teased, sometimes, but have noticed that each successive product uses/introduces bits and pieces of some architecture, that might ultimately lend themselves to fulfilling Kevtris' original ambition. When they finally sign off on that, if ever, though ...

[Kaide]

1 hour ago, impetus_maximus said:

wondering what this release announcement will do for the price of N64 systems/games.

i have my original N64 and a bunch of games, but no desire to play any of them.

even back when i was playing it after i got it, i'd picked up my SNES and found that to be more fun.

I don’t think the N64 really stood the test of time all that well. The number of games that are still in the public consciousness are few. I grabbed a GameCube for the retro collection already but still don’t have an N64.

 

1 hour ago, Atariboy said:

Analogue's CEO has confirmed it's only one FPGA. 

 

"If we wanted to offer Analogue 3D with openFPGA (which is not the purpose or focus of the product)," Analogue founder Christopher Taber wrote to Ars, "it would require not only a second FPGA, but an even more powerful base FPGA,  therefore increasing the price to a price that doesn't suit our goals."

I had that article in my reading list but hadn’t read it yet. Interesting. I wonder what they are doing differently for 4K on the Cyclone V then.

[Atariboy]

A separate upscaling chip, perhaps?

 

While I hope that there's higher than native resolution rendering options available, there's nothing that they've said so far that has confirmed that they'll be rendered up to 4K. That leaves open the possibility of a scaling chip in play here, although it doesn't quite align with their no-lag standard of the past or their pushing of various display filters that really need the full 4K rather rather than an upscaled 4K image.

 

It will be interesting to learn more details on this, although I suspect we're in for a long wait before getting more information.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Atariboy

[Tanooki]

I'm curious to see how it plays out, really I am.  I just wonder if this is a $300-350 machine or more.  There was no good way to HDMI my SNES or Genesis those made sense, the NES I have with the kit, same with marshalls for n64, and the external on the cube.  They'd have to go way above and beyond to rationalize it, but I do want to see what the final product ends up as.

[Atariboy]

Christopher Taber has said that he wants to keep the price in line with past Analogue products. I don't have the source for that handy (I'm just following the FPGAming Discord channel as people talk), but that implies something around $250 unless he's misleading us and is referring to the Nt Mini and Noir.

 

For about $250 this is very tempting as a huge N64 fan. Low end HDMI mods that upscale to 720p start around $130 (and 1080p is $200 or so) and a quality installation service starts at $85 or so (and can easily cost more depending on one's choice of vendor). So not only do I not risk my original N64 console in the mail, I possibly save a bit of money and gain a lot of extra benefits.

 

And since I have a big cartridge collection, I've never bought an Everdrive 64. If this gets jailbroken that ends up icing on the cake since I no longer need an Everdrive to access games that I missed that now are super expensive, prototypes, etc. The basic Everdrive X5's start at $135 and the X7 starts at $215 at StoneAgeGamer.

 

I'm looking forward to learning more about this.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Atariboy

[Reaperman]

fine, I'll buy it.  Which day to I have to take off of work to refresh the page? Or is it going to be all nice and calm like the duo preorder?, which is still open(!)

[M-S]

3 hours ago, Atariboy said:

Christopher Taber has said that he wants to keep the price in line with past Analogue products. I don't have the source for that handy (I'm just following the FPGAming Discord channel as people talk), but that implies something around $250 unless he's misleading us and is referring to the Nt Mini and Noir.

 

For about $250 this is very tempting as a huge N64 fan. Low end HDMI mods that upscale to 720p start around $130 (and 1080p is $200 or so) and a quality installation service starts at $85 or so (and can easily cost more depending on one's choice of vendor). So not only do I not risk my original N64 console in the mail, I possibly save a bit of money and gain a lot of extra benefits.

There are 40$ HDMI mods now, the UltraHDMI isn't the only one nowadays.

And it seems like Analogue is still doing the "No emulation" and "100% compatibility" fake marketing. Maybe after a few firmware updates they'll have that, but out of the box all of their systems had issues.

[impetus_maximus]

5 minutes ago, M-S said:

Maybe after a few firmware updates they'll have that, but out of the box all of their systems had issues.

still waiting for the audio fix for the V2 Mega Sg that v4.9 broke.

[Atariboy]

Hopefully what we're seeing with the Duo will be the norm going forward, leaving these 15-30 second window of opportunities to their limited edition variants like the colored Pockets.

[Atariboy]

24 minutes ago, M-S said:

There are 40$ HDMI mods now, the UltraHDMI isn't the only one nowadays.

And it seems like Analogue is still doing the "No emulation" and "100% compatibility" fake marketing. Maybe after a few firmware updates they'll have that, but out of the box all of their systems had issues.

Ultra HDMI wasn't what I was referring to.

 

Are you talking about something that plugs into the N64's video port and upscales analog S-Video via HDMI? That's a far cry from what I'm talking about that taps into the N64's digital signal. The cheapest options that I'm aware of are the Gamebox 64HD ($130 and I think I saw something about the designer passing away suddenly, so it might not be an actual option) and the Pixel FX Retro Gem without the "Shiny" upgrade that enables higher than 720p output and some superior deinterlacing options ($120 for the non-Shiny version).

 

And then unless you're comfortable with soldering flex cables to tiny pins on a chip, you then have to pay an installer to do the actual modding of your system. Cheapest competent choice there that I'm aware of is 1UpRestorations and the price is $85 for each of these low cost mods.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Atariboy

[Pixelboy]

34 minutes ago, Reaperman said:

Or is it going to be all nice and calm like the duo preorder?, which is still open(!)

Considering the Turbografx-16 wasn't a huge hit in North-America, I think the Turbografx Mini stole a lot of thunder away from the Duo. I won't be surprised at all if the Duo is outright cancelled (although I hope not, for the sake of those who pre-ordered it).

 

[Atariboy]

The Duo isn't going to be cancelled. They've taken people's money, they're continuing to sell it, and they just reconfirmed today that preorders will ship late this year.