Playing Sam's Journey, would an A8 version be possible

[Heaven/TQA]

btw. we have a new member in Desire and he started this year coding c64... (and learing assembler!)

 

http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=78159

 

so... there is fresh blood... but he is already doing stuff like FLD, open border etc... ($d011 triggering).... so... it is like TMR said... new releases attrac new ppl...

 

sad that he used c64 as choosen platform but he wasn't aware of the A8...

[Mclaneinc]

Its my use of the terminology there, the C64 scene release rules confound me, ie if certain things are added it should not be added to the credits etc etc..

 

I meant where a game which has been cracked by many groups gets cracked again in what is classed as a 100% way (whatever that is called in the rulebook)

 

Original game just done (so called) properly....Hence for me that's been recracked but these scene ways are for Village People.....

 

 

As for people doing stuff, I feel awkward there, its all very well me who can do nothing calling for people to do stuff but one thing I do know about is shortage of time and other priorities, that I'm an expert on and lazy bones here (me) cheering folk on to do more sounds a bit cheap...

 

I know what its like to have zero time to yourself and a great deal of stuff to try and fit in that impossibly small bit of time..

 

All I can do is wish our devs all the best and hope they get the urge to make some magic, I gave a little thought to if a donation fund might help but do you really want mass produced stuff or stuff that comes from a dev that really loves what they are doing and is deeply attached to it. Hope fully as you say it will spur more to get in the mix but the dev scene is what it is...

[TMR]

so... there is fresh blood... but he is already doing stuff like FLD, open border etc... ($d011 triggering).... so... it is like TMR said... new releases attrac new ppl...

By coincidence I nearly mentioned that release in my last post; he's doing open sideborders and VSP which are both cycle-accurate routines and remarkable for a beginner.

 

I meant where a game which has been cracked by many groups gets cracked again in what is classed as a 100% way (whatever that is called in the rulebook)

Just call them cracks... yes there are other terms but, unless you're involved in the cracking scene and all of the point scoring that goes on around new releases, you probably don't need to worry either way! =-)

 

It's not a C64-specific thing though, most of the terminology extends to the 16-bit scenes and calling something a recrack when it isn't would upset the people who did the work there as well.

 

As for people doing stuff, I feel awkward there, its all very well me who can do nothing calling for people to do stuff but one thing I do know about is shortage of time and other priorities, that I'm an expert on and lazy bones here (me) cheering folk on to do more sounds a bit cheap...

 

I know what its like to have zero time to yourself and a great deal of stuff to try and fit in that impossibly small bit of time..

I'm in a similar boat as far as time goes, I get more time than some granted, but work and family commitments means the time available to me is fairly spread out; that makes working on larger projects harder, as does having what the doctors suspect is a frozen shoulder that the painkillers I take for arthritis are just looking at and shrugging their collective metaphorical shoulders over.

 

But there's no rule saying everybody has to do large productions - just knocking out a fun little one-parter counts as a release and will act as an encouragement to others - or that everyone has to work alone for that matter; talking to the wider audience for a moment, if enough people want to learn why not start a small crew between you and work things out as a group? All you need is a "guru" to help out occasionally...

[Heaven/TQA]

TMR the guy is 20 something so as far as I remember 20 years younger than me.... he appreciates my C64 stuff (unreleased) and our C64 guys preparing stuff for upcoming X 2018 i nearly can follow anything they are chatting on Slack hahaaha... the guy is already deeper into C64 than me and asks me for advice???

They do really old school stuff (so not like 3D shit) but all those VIC2 tricks and I just follow mouth open haha...

 

as I said... sad that A8 does not attract the broad audience... I guess even in Europe new blood thinks of Atari for 2600... and ST.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Heaven/TQA

[emkay]

Hats off to the dev's, don't let REMKay's comments put you off, just REM them out

That's actually what they do . And that's why things stall.

[_The Doctor__]

emkay things stall because most of us have jobs, kids, life, and a wife... add in some pets and friends.... we end up with not time for things, that is why some software comes out so many years later. Heck we even forget they exist and put them out 7 years later.

 

emkay you are not a very perceptive individual.. I think you are not being very helpful. Maybe you should make exe's and demos of all your music up for us to download and enjoy.... but you always say no time to do so, or people won't be interested or something weird like that... just put them up and people will either d/l them or they won't. Let people decide. You always are so withheld about everything. I suspect in real life you are stark flaming crazy wild at clubs and stuff. But in Atari land, you are Grimm, Perhaps even bringing the reaper and death to projects and scarring away the new programmers we need in the Atari scene.

[flashjazzcat]

Yep: the manner in which the all-knowing one imparts his wisdom leaves much to be desired.

[emkay]

emkay things stall because most of us have jobs, kids, life, and a wife... add in some pets and friends.... we end up with not time for things, ....

Wow. Really?

 

Have you ever read what I wrote ?

THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT.

 

Wow. Really.

 

.... with a little exception...

 

If there is a little time to spend on that "Hobby" . Just think of things that can be done. Not of things that run into a stalemate.

 

But, on the other hand. If people have a real life, they should know about presuming of what to do and what not. That's why people get informations and put them into their own project.

The mistake here is that people think o "8-Bit" and presume every of them were somehow similar. Then things get wasted: Time, Energy, thoughts...

[_The Doctor__]

dude I love Space Harrier done over many years... it would never have gotten done with your words. death project etc. You sir are qualifying as a numb nut. I can't hear you anymore.

[gorgh]

I can agree with Emkay, people should estimate the efford needed to accomplish project wisely...starting a project and not finishing it is a waste of time and giving false hope.

[Heaven/TQA]

Gorgh... yes but ppl should do what they want and do not get down by ppl complaining why they have done it not in another way....

[gorgh]

True that

[emkay]

dude I love Space Harrier done over many years... it would never have gotten done with your words. death project etc. You sir are qualifying as a numb nut. I can't hear you anymore.

Please don't compare apples with pears.

Space Harrier had a real AIM from the beginning. And it's build upon gr. 7 / Antic D.

[emkay]

Gorgh... yes but ppl should do what they want and do not get down by ppl complaining why they have done it not in another way....

Things don't get funny, if people should know it better and claim that things were possible. Based on that , other people get faulty informations and eventually start one of those unfinishable projects again.

[_The Doctor__]

If we listen to you it would never have been built at all. Please don't conflate your desire to keep others from doing things with technical aspects of each software. It is clear the AIM was to make space harrier! It is clear the op's AIM is to have a journey made for the Atari. The AIM or goals are fine... your sucking the life out of every project till people are so down trodden they don't wan't to do anything anymore is the issue. You have said death project enough times, I am glad they didn't listen and eventually we get something truely special. Please stop telling us how it's not possible or argue for some method to do a thing and then not provide a working exe to do it. Everyone works together and share code snippets or guide with words to help a person do it and improve it, not you though, you say do it using emkay way... but I've never seen ekay way... Maybe emkay stop telling us and start showing us with real exe's... oh but emkay too busy.. His time is spent side tracking de moralizing and writing enough posts that he could have made Mega Musical Multipart games for himself or us. I will waste no more time with you on this. Other people want real help, testing and ideas. You have sucked us into this enough that we've wasted all this time and typing and have lost that time and typing for all these projects.

 

Greetinx to the impossible coders!

Fu*kinx to the impossible emkay for now!

Edited September 16, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[emkay]

If we listen to you it would never have been built at all.

Deleted the rest of that nonsense, because it shows a shifted reality.

 

I always forced people to do "3D games in Antic D" . Sheddy did the game in a coincidence. And we had nice a communication while the development of the game was almost done.

 

"3D" Ego view / 1st person games, is what is given to the Atari by hardware default.

But those "special C64 games" give hard times to the Atari coders, and, if such games use the C64 in this special way, the Atari's development of the 70s doesn't have any chance.

 

You can see it backed by people like Heaven, using VBXE for doing that "C64" stuff.

It means in other words: "we need special upgrades" ... which is another sentence with the meaning of "the stock Atari cannot do it".

 

To understand things right, you have to read them as they were meant, not as you liked to read out of them.

Edited September 16, 2018 by emkay

[Heaven/TQA]

You can see it backed by people like Heaven, using VBXE for doing that "C64" stuff.

It means in other words: "we need special upgrades" ... which is another sentence with the meaning of "the stock Atari cannot do it".

 

 

Nah... I am using VBXE because its fun and leads to faster results not coding weeks for sprite routines and i was referring to Beyond Evil mainly.

 

And if you mean that stock Atari can not do 256 color sprites in 320x240 then yes... you are right in terms of VBXE.

[_The Doctor__]

My stock NTSC C64 can't do it either emKay, and my 128 chokes on it as well...

I don't remember you involved in Chris's project and it went on for a long time, you say at the end? It was pretty much Sal Esquivel (Kjmann)
change music to RMT and there was the re-code to cartridge from disk.. I shouldn't say just, there was a heck of lot of busy work for Chris to do, but my recollection can be flawed.

 

You deleted the rest because you can't handle confronting your own issues. And you appear h*ll bent on making sure no one has the will to do anything. Nothing else to say, please continue to show how much you don't want anything new or great for the Atari... no one can overcome anything... we should all just forget about doing anything. Let's toss out all of these machines, both platforms, we can never do what a modern computer can do, we shouldn't even try doing phone like games either. emkay says don't try... so don't... what spoiler.

 

It's very hard to find anything of you encouraging anyone to do anything at all emkay.

Edited September 16, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[solo/ng]

I can agree with Emkay, people should estimate the efford needed to accomplish project wisely...starting a project and not finishing it is a waste of time and giving false hope.

 

i disagree - its a hobby after all; ). Everyone has tons stuff/obligations in real life (heck I ran 2 companies) and I never estimate anything about A8. why should I. Its a (fun!) hobby and after super long break it tastes even better.

And you know it Gorgh how fun it is (:

 

Then things get wasted: Time, Energy, thoughts...

 

its like reading your posts; "bla,bla, emo cry bla,bla,something"

waste of energy (both parties)

 

edit:

we just rebooted. more to come. so here a pic for you:

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by solo/ng

[emkay]

Nah... I am using VBXE because its fun and leads to faster results not coding weeks for sprite routines and i was referring to Beyond Evil mainly.

Thanks for the statement.

[emkay]

My stock NTSC C64 can't do it either emKay, and my 128 chokes on it as well...

 

That is a real programmer issue. The C64 could run it by loading more from Disk. The 128 could run it after using the Z80 CPU , as the Sprites of the VIC2 help to compensate the cycle thingy of the CPU.

 

I don't remember you involved in Chris's project and it went on for a long time, you say at the end? It was pretty much Sal Esquivel (Kjmann)

change music to RMT and there was the re-code to cartridge from disk.. I shouldn't say just, there was a heck of lot of busy work for Chris to do, but my recollection can be flawed.

 

 

 

You deleted the rest because you can't handle confronting your own issues.

 

 

See the problem (if you're able to do) :

 

You don't know about my contact to Sheddy, because we wrote PMs. And it was about the title of the game. So you cannot know it.

You claim "emkay is not communicating" ? "emkay" wrote things on and on, wasting a lot of time. Because you even don't remember it, or haven't ever read.

It's about analyzing why this particular strength of the Atari won't get tickled to the outer borders. Which is about any 3D presentation.

On the graphical side, for still images, a lot has been done.

But on the Sound/Music side, things have to be worked on. As there were several problems still to solve:

-Music is a matter of taste

-Sound Style is a matter of taste

 

Coder, particular real professional coders, also have their personal taste.

That's why people preferred the C64 from the beginning. It has been prepared to bring the wanted environment to the aimed customers.

At the end, a C64 coder is someone who loves SID sound and scrolling games with sprites. It changed to do them more hardware specific FX in graphics and sound. And ended up in trying to put any 3D environment out of the C64. Which fails on and on.

 

People were impressed by the fast "3D" projection of the Atari, but they don't get interested to program the Atari, because they have to listen to the "today's development" of POKEY sound. Terms like "POKEY Desaster" don't come from my direction. It's just when particular Arsantica 3 runs on the screen, the graphics were "wow", but the music hits the eardrums like a slap in the face, they surely do not feel well.

 

That's why I do those sound experiments on and on. To find a combination of "least noise" and "most possible listeners" with the available software. So, if the presentation gets their Audience, they may find the fun to do stuff for the Atari... possibly the missing stuff.

 

Remember?

THE Atari game in the commercials, back in the 70s? It's a "3D projection" based game. And there is no real successor...

It's close to 40 Years now...

[Heaven/TQA]

Ok... another morning and again me:

 

People were impressed by the fast "3D" projection of the Atari, but they don't get interested to program the Atari, because they have to listen to the "today's development" of POKEY sound. Terms like "POKEY Desaster" don't come from my direction. It's just when particular Arsantica 3 runs on the screen, the graphics were "wow", but the music hits the eardrums like a slap in the face, they surely do not feel well.

 

Well... Arsantica 3 uses single POKEY as it was aimed for

Stock Atari (as fun project). Miker and Triace composes the music. Miker using MPT and Triace RMT. Both musicians and I personally dont let something on the music. On each song I can tell you why it was done in that way wether its because RAM constrains or not or simple deadline time issue for composing. We can complain hours and hours and debating about POKEY but it is like it is.... POKEY is not like SID or PAULA. Same would be TIA or VIC1 are not SID.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Heaven/TQA

[emkay]

Well... Arsantica 3 uses single POKEY as it was aimed for

Stock Atari (as fun project). Miker and Triace composes the music. Miker using MPT and Triace RMT. Both musicians and I personally dont let something on the music. On each song I can tell you why it was done in that way wether its because RAM constrains or not or simple deadline time issue for composing. We can complain hours and hours and debating about POKEY but it is like it is.... POKEY is not like SID or PAULA. Same would be TIA or VIC1 are not SID.

POKEY is the most capable chip in the Atari. It offers the most possibilities of manipulations by software. The development there is stalled by the two points I mentioned above. And , btw. Only PAULA is really better than POKEY

POKEY can be a 2 channel 16 Bit TIA. Ever heard this variation?

There also exist tunes that sound better than their "original" SID counterparts.

 

So there is no need to have the weakest part of a demo in the sound part.

[Heaven/TQA]

I dedicated 90% of CPU for Voxel rendering, Voxel Ball rendering, Wolfenstein Raycasting and fractal island (ok that uses RMT so slightly more CPU time for music used as Triace uses SID voice). Axis rotating plane and the shade vectors in the hidden part use as much CPU they can get.

 

Sure you can better sounds by using more CPU dedicated to music player but thats why you rather not find double or tripple speed played music in my demos...

 

Look Vedder as an example made 2 music tracks for the VBXE demos... he is coming from Amiga and used RMT for first time.... should I put him down because he uses out of the box instrument sets? No...

 

Same with Alien or Bokanoid or others doing gfx for me... all of them have broad range of knowledge on different platforms. (Dont try to mess with Alien/Titan). They never will come up with G2f stunning pics because the tools mainly g2f and the learning curve is too steep.... now should I blame them? Nah... look what nice work they have done for Arsantica series or Elements or Gnork.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Heaven/TQA

[popmilo]

If I understood it well, Emkay's wish is that coders do mostly 3d/ego/double pixel mode games.

There are 79 games marked "3d" on Atarimania out of 9350... That's around 0.8%... There's less than 10 such games in top 100...

And you say we should focus our efforts on that part of all possible Atari game types ?

It's ok for you to love that mode and wanna see more games like that.

It's also totally fine to see coders working on 9 times that much projects that are totaly boring, c64-like, 2d, simple games.

I have a question for you Emkay - if someone would leave aside 3d and just code 8-dir scrolling, platform game with jumps, picking up objects, lifts, switches, couple sprites per screen and all this using 4-5 color double scanline mode with little color added with PMs - would you say it's a good project to work on ?