Playing Sam's Journey, would an A8 version be possible

[TMR]

Now I understand. You're coding on the C64 in prior.

You still don't understand... we were talking about turning Callisto "into something "Sam's Journey" like" so, when you said "just add the 8 way scrolling there" (my emphasis) it would, in order to achieve what we were talking about doing, have to handle the colour RAM as well. So by using the word "just" like that you're basically trying to make that process sound trivial and no, it really wouldn't be.

 

If you was writing, how easy it is to do a sprite game with scrolling on the C64, You'd put yourself down.

The games I code on the C64 aren't particularly difficult to do with an understanding of the machine and I've never claimed otherwise. But we were talking about Sam's Journey and that isn't just a "sprite game with scrolling" like the ones I code.

 

It's also interesting, as we had a discussion when it was about Reaxion. Where you clearly stated about the expense for just having the cursor colored, to have at least "one sprite" looking like the C64 version.

Well, I wouldn't have said "at least one sprite" because there's only one sprite in the game on the C64... but feel free to provide actual quotes rather than your interpretation of what I said so we can consider it properly.

 

What makes me puking in this thread is that we were always discussing the weakest spot of the Atari which makes it look like I'd put the whole machine down.

So save everyone including yourself grief by staying out of threads like this one then! You could have put the energy you spent posting to this thread doing those "more important things to do in [your] life" that get in the way of coding... they are important, after all.

[Heaven/TQA]

 

Well you didn't make such game. I didn't make such game. Neither did emkay. So I guess that's why

 

We might not be able to have games this pretty, but we should be able to have games this much original, this much well done, with this much passion put into them. As for me, it just takes too long. My current game (to be released soon), which is pretty simple, took 2 years to be made. I have plans for way bigger games, but how long is that going to take, no idea. When you doing it in you free time, for free, it will be like this. Maybe the only difference is that on C64 more people will buy the game, so people can invest more time into it.

Yeah. I only have one game since ages on the plate and its Beyond Evil... and to say what... it was ressurrected but on C64 as I am lazy and my softsprite routine has bugs and as emkay is right in that case it was better platform... few STAs for sprites, 256 chars... most hard shit on a8 was gone... and with color ram I can even disable chars by setting to black.....

[Mclaneinc]

Emaky, study some psychology if you have not already, its a breath of fresh air and can help some see where they are going wrong, it also helps spot, identify and explain the people who simply refuse to accept when they are pushing too hard on a flawed perspective, it leads to the them refusing to accept that anything they say is wrong. Its a pretty common sociological issue. I had a case of it recently where I was expected to apologise again and again for an unfounded grudge held against me. I just ignored it in the end and I won't return to it. You have to let it go old man, we are all bits of tissue, fluid and bone, we are ALL fallible, knowing when to leave it be is key..

 

This isn't a lesson, its just some friendly advice.....TMR was spot on when he said how much time wasted that could have been spent on other stuff by you......Its your time you can't get back, why waste it..

[Guest]

Emaky, study some psychology if you have not already, its a breath of fresh air and can help some see where they are going wrong, it also helps spot, identify and explain the people who simply refuse to accept when they are pushing too hard on a flawed perspective, it leads to the them refusing to accept that anything they say is wrong. Its a pretty common sociological issue. I had a case of it recently where I was expected to apologise again and again for an unfounded grudge held against me. I just ignored it in the end and I won't return to it. You have to let it go old man, we are all bits of tissue, fluid and bone, we are ALL fallible, knowing when to leave it be is key..

 

 

well obviously not just yet then?

[José Pereira]

At least José Pereira did listen to my writings. He learned fast. Not sure why, but people listened to his word then.

Whon said I listened?

[Guest]

At least José Pereira did listen to my writings. He learned fast. Not sure why, but people listened to his word then.

 

 

Whon said I listened?

 

 

and what possible benefit is there to "listening" to someone writing?

[emkay]

This isn't a lesson, its just some friendly advice.....TMR was spot on when he said how much time wasted that could have been spent on other stuff by you......Its your time you can't get back, why waste it..

I'm just nosy about reactions

See all the posts. Things won't change. But new people enter the arena, ask questions and get that old mill of nonsense revolving.

Also, the point of the communication always gets circled by people who do their post, knowing nothing at all, claiming the Atari can do C64 games like "Sam's Journey" .

Instead of accepting neutral explanations, they begin to pick like chicken. And , no, it's not them who did really great stuff, it's mostly people who know nothing at all.

 

The answer to this thread is: No, Sam's Journey isn't possible, because the game takes advantage by special features of the C64.

 

There also doesn't exist simple engines that could show a short part of that game, at least.

Games like Turrican or Giana Sisters would do well, but the essence that is put into Sam's Journey is far too specific.

[Heaven/TQA]

I'm just nosy about reactions

See all the posts. Things won't change. But new people enter the arena, ask questions and get that old mill of nonsense revolving.

Also, the point of the communication always gets circled by people who do their post, knowing nothing at all, claiming the Atari can do C64 games like "Sam's Journey" .

Instead of accepting neutral explanations, they begin to pick like chicken. And , no, it's not them who did really great stuff, it's mostly people who know nothing at all.

 

The answer to this thread is: No, Sam's Journey isn't possible, because the game takes advantage by special features of the C64.

 

There also doesn't exist simple engines that could show a short part of that game, at least.

Games like Turrican or Giana Sisters would do well, but the essence that is put into Sam's Journey is far too specific.

Now a 75% neutral post? Good... it seems we get to it

 

As soon as you dont insult ppl and turn their work down and even listen to coders and dont take everything for granted what you have done in the past I am happyx

[emkay]

Now a 75% neutral post? Good... it seems we get to it

 

As soon as you dont insult ppl and turn their work down and even listen to coders and dont take everything for granted what you have done in the past I am happyx

Everytime I enter this thread, thinking "nothing new there" then I read that post.

 

I insult people by turning their work down ? Holy cow!

 

 

How is it possible to mix up things in that wrong(est) way?

 

 

Did you really ever read the threads, or did you get your thoughts out of any daydreaming?

 

 

I do not claim anything as you described. OK. I explain one more time:

 

The Thread is about "Is Sam's Journey possible on the Atari" . The answer is easy: No!

 

Then people ask why "emkay" is forcing his opinion. The answer is easy: Because I know how the Atari works.

 

Then people ask why "emkay" knows. The answer is still easy: Because of real experience.

 

Then people come with opinions caused by smoking something, as it seems. Other don't know nothing, but have to put their comment, so they got their chance to put a comment to something that is fully distant to their knowledge. But they write something.

Then I do just a little mimimimininini defense, that causes others the self created feeling of being insulted.

 

Sorry, but "idiots" is not a daily term in my real life. So I try to explain things to them, hoping the seed enters some fertile ground.

Edited September 9, 2018 by emkay

[_The Doctor__]

emkay, your answer is always no.... so who cares what you say anymore

 

I can't run Sam's Journey without modifying my 64 or 128 for that matter... I have to buy REU or similar equipment.

Perhaps a modified Atari can do it...

Also Space Harrier and Tempest 2k (extreme etc) were impossible but now we have some of the best

and Movies with sound or color were also impossible..... all were done without modification... and became possible. and on and on.... I don't put much stock in you and what you think can or can't be... I only defer to you on matters of musicality and sound related issues concerning chip music/synth.

 

Please move on with your attempts to prevent anyone from discovering what's possible (or not) on this platform....

[budburns]

emkay, your answer is always no.... so who cares what you say anymore

 

I can't run Sam's Journey without modifying my 64 or 128 for that matter... I have to buy REU or similar equipment.

Perhaps a modified Atari can do it...

Also Space Harrier and Tempest 2k (extreme etc) were impossible but now we have some of the best

and Movies with sound or color were also impossible..... all were done without modification... and became possible. and on and on.... I don't put much stock in you and what you think can or can't be... I only defer to you on matters of musicality and sound related issues concerning chip music/synth.

 

Please move on with your attempts to prevent anyone from discovering what's possible (or not) on this platform....

As always good call Doc. Whether you believe you can or you cannot, you will always be right. I enjoy loading up Time Pilot on my 130XE to remind myself of that. There is no modified hardware, just modified thinking.

Edited September 11, 2018 by budburns

[Mclaneinc]

There is no modified hardware, just modified thinking.

 

Now that is the spirit...Great call...

[emkay]

As always good call Doc. Whether you believe you can or you cannot, you will always be right. I enjoy loading up Time Pilot on my 130XE to remind myself of that. There is no modified hardware, just modified thinking.

lmao

 

Time Pilot is using the double scanline mode ANTIC D. It's actually one of those points where contrary meanings clash

And, it's actually my position that ANTIC D allows to do games that could look and play as fluently as 16 Bit machines can do.

[emkay]

emkay, your answer is always no.... so who cares what you say anymore

 

I can't run Sam's Journey without modifying my 64 or 128 for that matter... I have to buy REU or similar equipment.

Perhaps a modified Atari can do it...

Any RAM expansion is allowed, as there never has been a "64K" era. It's named "8 Bit era" .

And , if people claim "a machine can do this or that" , they always point to the stock machines.

It's no problem , to create better software on better hardware. One of the worst decisions by the creators of the Atari's chipset was to set the colors in hi res to just a different luma of the background. Also, the PMg, which is an enhancement of the early 1970s chips of the 2600. It hasn't become more than it is. But a clever usage shows always more that people could expect.

But, how to explain things like "DMA Cycle Stealing" ? It simply is not possible to use the same amount of CPU cycles in a higher resolution than Antic D offers. If you chose to use Antic E or F, CPU speed drops automatically to a 3rd of what's possible.

 

Please move on with your attempts to prevent anyone from discovering what's possible (or not) on this platform....

See the fact that, if people have free time to do something for the Atari, anything that points to mock C64 games, is not just a waste of time...

 

The Atari has it's own strengths, but that excludes anything like "Sam's Journey" . This is NOT my opinion. This is technical restrictions.

[_The Doctor__]

It's not, and by your definition if it attaches to the pbi eci then it's stock... or similar modifications inside the machine, as I was told I would have to do to play Sam's so anything is possible on any machine given your reasoning. The only thing that limits the open nature of most chips in the Atari over the years was most didn't use all the capabilities of each chip, this was true for Pokey, GTIA, and Antic... also the add ons mentioned to make such things possible in the C was adding something considered and dismissed back to the C units... If that's okay then I guess the 800XL Cr (Keri), or any of the sound chips Atari made or any of the other projects that were scrapped or not done for one reason or another can be added back to the 8 bit Atari if you want to compare Oranges to Oranges. There are a few more things undiscovered and untouched in the Atari chipset as is for now, others would require slight modification. Since Atari had protos of various sound chips and dual to quad pokeys and all manner of such goodies fleshed out over the years as well as various graphic chips and segregated memory Ideas, I guess our little Amiga could handle just about anything you want to do to it. If that sounds over the top, it is. Just as over the top as your repeated it technically can't do it arguments. If you aren't part of the solution, you are the problem. Please continue to contradict and interdict in the thread. It was amusing to read your post about 16 bit performance on the 8 bit... and then tell us how an 8 bit game can't be done over a couple of posts time.

 

If enough people want to bad enough, a version of a Sam's like journey or clone could be done. End of story, some how some way.

 

Bottom line is this, I can't play it on either machine without modification.. I have played it on someone else machine with modifications he had done on his 64 w/ add on module... I still didn't see anything that might not be overcome and done on an Atari, and it wasn't perfect, but very nice.... there is more than one way to skin a cat. Maybe there will be in time a Journey for the Atari 8. Sadly when it does happen, you will point to your post about 16 bit performance is possible to CYA if and when said Journey were to happen. 'emkay' see I told you so 'post number says blah blah..' even though the entire thread was dominated by it and the impossible words of 'it's impossible'- emkay. You always manage to make at least one or two CYA posts and then go right back to fighting anything a person proposes.

Edited September 11, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[R0ger]

AFAIK Sam's journey does not require any modification, as long as it is PAL C64.

[_The Doctor__]

Doesn't do me any good in ntsc land, and truly not directed at you r0ger.

The trend in the peanut gallery seems to be as follows...

funnily when Atari ntsc doesn't play a certain whatever it means Atari is poor etc but when only PAL can play a thing in C= world it is most significant ever and is super above all, No one cares if somewhere around half the c64 world (give or take) can't play it without modification and add on module. Any talk of attempting something must be thwarted and should be abandoned. At least when listening to impossible thinkers.

 

I'm happy to muck about with whichever machine, mind you every machine has it's pluses and minuses. I still believe something well enough could be done for one machine or another. Imagine Sam's Journey on Vectrex.... you never know

Edited September 11, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[kiwilove]

I only glanced at a video of this game playing - and it looks very much like a C-64 take on Super MarioWorld on the SNES.

Something like this could be done on the A8 hardware - but it may not look as impressive??? There would be a lot less colour present. Softsprites would be needed - therefore would slow down the system as such - or clever use of hardware sprites - but then you could make use of any Atari advantages to offset the disadvantages present.

 

It's not likely to see such a project taken on - needing lots of expertise and time commitment - for no financial reward. You would need some early sign it is feasible to do - in early tests for it - to guarantee it is worthwhile to take on.

And I will guess other projects may seem to be more worthwhile doing - because of less time commitment - and being 'easier' to do.

Whereas this kind of project (SMW) is like some kind of Everest to climb....

 

Only some programmer who's a big fan of SMW - may want to knock this bastard off - (in the words of Ed Hilliary) - who will put in the time and effort to do so.

 

Harvey

[emkay]

I only glanced at a video of this game playing - and it looks very much like a C-64 take on Super MarioWorld on the SNES.

Something like this could be done on the A8 hardware - but it may not look as impressive???

Those C64 games always looked impressive on Screenshots. But that doesn't equalize the game quality.

 

The biggest mistake is to think that everyone has the same taste of anything.

Sneaking towards Minecraft.

One of the most popular games in this decade, even Kids play it in prior to any super cool hi res shooter that looks impressing on a screenshot.

It's what the game offers. The visuals only need to transport the information , to handle the game right.

[popmilo]

Only some programmer who's a big fan of SMW - may want to knock this bastard off - (in the words of Ed Hilliary) - who will put in the time and effort to do so.

Agreed. Look at games like Dimos quest. Coder loved that game "type". That's why he spent so much time.

I loooooove minecraft, that's why I spent almost half year on Monk. That's why I will eventually do 8way scrolling shoot em up on atari. Because I can play turrican, contra, midnight resistence all the time and it never gets boring.

 

So for anyone out there, who loves mario like games and is thinking about doing it on Atari, my advice is "Yes it's possible. Soft sprites are not the problem. There's enough colors if you have good pixel artist. There's enough cpu time."

ps. And one more "Get Miker to do the music !"

[emkay]

Agreed. Look at games like Dimos quest. Coder loved that game "type". That's why he spent so much time.

I loooooove minecraft, that's why I spent almost half year on Monk. That's why I will eventually do 8way scrolling shoot em up on atari. Because I can play turrican, contra, midnight resistence all the time and it never gets boring.

This could be interpreted to:

Hey, I'm a fish. I love diving. And next time I'm going to learn Sand diving. So I can swim through the desert.

 

....

 

Well, the fish only has one time to fail

[_The Doctor__]

you do realize some fish do come out of the water right emkay?

 

4 to 10 of them can do so for long times... some spend 6 or so days at a time on land.

 

also some actually do burrow or dive into the sand.

 

So thanks for the confirmation!

Edited September 12, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[emkay]

you do realize some fish do come out of the water right emkay?

 

4 to 10 of them can do so for long times... some spend 6 or so days at a time on land.

 

also some actually do burrow or dive into the sand.

 

So thanks for the confirmation!

That's why a gazillion demos of unfinishable software for the Atari available. No fish really ever dived in the desert.

[Heaven/TQA]

As often mentioned already you neither.

[popmilo]

This could be interpreted to:

Hey, I'm a fish. I love diving. And next time I'm going to learn Sand diving. So I can swim through the desert.

Me personally am not a fish. I can swim and dive in water, walk, crawl, dig sand, climb on trees, fly in airplane...

I sure can code platform games, adventure games and all other....