Playing Sam's Journey, would an A8 version be possible

[emkay]

Please refrain from speaking about coding if that's your stance... Please make wonderful music instead...

 

Who could have guessed?

I know how to code and I know how the Atari works. But that doesn't offer me time to do that.

The Music is a side effect. As you can listen to anything, when doing something else ...

 

And, btw. even being not a professional programmer, I did a lot software in the past, when time was more flexible.

One time I made the 1st place in the ABBUC . Everything learned from magazines and books. No computers at school...

So why should I "refrain from" my own experience ?

 

Btw: The networking in my XL ST Schiffeversenken game seems still a miracle to people

Edited September 5, 2018 by emkay

[_The Doctor__]

I know how to code and I know how the Atari works. But that doesn't offer me time to do that.

The Music is a side effect. As you can listen to anything, when doing something else ...

 

And, btw. even being not a professional programmer, I did a lot software in the past, when time was more flexible.

One time I made the 1st place in the ABBUC . Everything learned from magazines and books. No computers at school...

So why should I "refrain from" my own experience ?

 

Btw: The networking in my XL ST Schiffeversenken game seems still a miracle to people

If that's the case why not continue to create miracles? lol

If not miracle then at least cool stuff... you spend good deal of time experimenting with sound, why not put executable all up someplace?

[Heaven/TQA]

Have you ever thought of that your written turned based games (jeopardy like game and tic tac toe like war game) might be totally different than a Plattform engine? And that using Atari Basic or Turbo Basic might be as well totally different experience than writing games in pure Maschine code?

 

Me eh can not justify shaders on PC as I have no clue how they work basicly (yes, i played with shadertoy). So I never would go into discussion with coders doing shaders...

 

And for the records I am not a professional coder either and did not learned that at Uni either.

[emkay]

And for the records I am not a professional coder either and did not learned that at Uni either.

And, If I weren't such an enthusiast about pushing the STOCK ATARI to the limits, we would have never known each other.

If you understand.

[+Stephen]

Why dont we ask NRV how long he worked on his platform engine?

 

Or The guys of Crownland?

 

I find it strange that how ppl underestimate such things.

 

Popmilo could answer as he is actually coding a platform er....

 

Or ask TMR.... how long it took his first SMUP engine on a8 and on C64?

Because it's much more fun to have speculation from non-coders telling the rest of the people who do code, how easy it is.

[+Stephen]

I'm not a coder, and have more important things to do in my life.

Like spouting bullshit to people who are coders are know better?

[emkay]

Like spouting bullshit to people who are coders are know better?

Good joke. Now I'm fresh for the morning.

[emkay]

Like spouting bullshit to people who are coders are know better?

Even more funny. What?

 

Let's analyze your post:

-I did programming for real on the Atari (Even on the ST)

-I know the restrictions there

-I also know to code assembler, did some in the past, even now using tools, it will not work without the knowledge of "how things work"

-I took part in some "winning" projects

-Actually I won a 1st price there a long time ago.

 

... and you know about everything that allows you to set me to a level of your own perception. Without any real hindsight of everything ?

 

And you have followers ...

 

Some things will never change.

[Heaven/TQA]

1st price? need to check ABBUC archive... now I need to have a look

 

where can I find your "Tic Tac Toe" networking game on ST? just courious.

 

just found this so far:

 

http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3810

Edited September 6, 2018 by Heaven/TQA

[TMR]

Or ask TMR.... how long it took his first SMUP engine on a8 and on C64?

That's a difficult question, they were both spread out because I had to work around family, school, jobs, other commitments... Co-Axis was my first scrolling shooter on the C64 and coded whilst I learnt the hardware and 6502 on a tape-based Breadbin - which added to the dev time considerably - whilst also studying for exams, so time was limited and it does close to naff all with enemy movement because I still had the L plates on.

 

Callisto was the first project finished on the A8 and, according to the notes I kept in it's source, the sprite engine was already running in October 2011 and the final balancing tweaks before playtesting were the the following September, meaning it was just shy of a year of on/off development for the actual game engine. In both cases I did my own graphics which have to be factored into the development time and there are bespoke tools for editing the background for Co-Axis which needed writing as well whilst Callisto was developed in Char Pad and just needed a dedicated if somewhat bodgy converter to reformat data for the mode I was using.

 

Just as a random something of the day whilst I wait for the caffeine to kick in this fine morning by the way; emkay's posts in this thread alone come to 31,585 characters in total and, just as a point of reference, the source for Blok Copy on the A8 is 40,409 bytes...

[snicklin]

the sprite engine was already running in October 2011 and the final balancing tweaks before playtesting were the the following September,

 

That sounds about right, I remember playing an early version where you were tweaking the difficulty a bit. The only difficulty I have is remembering whether that was in Wolverhampton, Blackpool or Manchester. I have a feeling that it was Wolverhampton though could be wrong.

[TMR]

That sounds about right, I remember playing an early version where you were tweaking the difficulty a bit. The only difficulty I have is remembering whether that was in Wolverhampton, Blackpool or Manchester. I have a feeling that it was Wolverhampton though could be wrong.

Neither do I... and if it wasn't for the dates in the source I wouldn't have been anywhere near sure. =-) I think it would've been a Blackpool or Manchester though, unless I'm also forgetting where Wolverhampton happened during the year...

[emkay]

That's a difficult question, they were both spread out because I had to work around family, school, jobs, other commitments... Co-Axis was my first scrolling shooter on the C64 and coded whilst I learnt the hardware and 6502 on a tape-based Breadbin - which added to the dev time considerably - whilst also studying for exams, so time was limited and it does close to naff all with enemy movement because I still had the L plates on.

How about an explanation of a similar engine (as used in Callisto ) on the C64 and to have an 8 way scrolling then.

[TMR]

How about an explanation of a similar engine (as used in Callisto ) on the C64 and to have an 8 way scrolling then.

It wouldn't work, the engine in Callisto is bespoke and was designed around the fixed speed scrolling and sprite handling code, none of which translates into something that the kind of game doing multi-directional, player-controlled scrolling needs.

[snicklin]

Neither do I... and if it wasn't for the dates in the source I wouldn't have been anywhere near sure. =-) I think it would've been a Blackpool or Manchester though, unless I'm also forgetting where Wolverhampton happened during the year...

 

It was the time that you showed me the Chameleon cart on the C64 which you'd just bought perhaps a few months beforehand. Now I do like that bit of hardware.

[TMR]

It was the time that you showed me the Chameleon cart on the C64 which you'd just bought perhaps a few months beforehand. Now I do like that bit of hardware.

Ah, the first event I did with the Turbo Chameleon was Blackpool; I'd ordered from AmigaKit and they handed it over to me at the event. =-)

[Heaven/TQA]

@Emkay

 

Where can I find your battleship game?

[snicklin]

Ah, the first event I did with the Turbo Chameleon was Blackpool; I'd ordered from AmigaKit and they handed it over to me at the event. =-)

 

I'd love to tease you as a cheapskate for saving on the postage costs, but the cost of those things shows that you were anything but!

[Mclaneinc]

Neither do I... and if it wasn't for the dates in the source I wouldn't have been anywhere near sure. =-) I think it would've been a Blackpool or Manchester though, unless I'm also forgetting where Wolverhampton happened during the year...

 

I'm betting Manchester as we chatted at the time re the game and I do remember Manchester being mentioned...(Edit: maybe not re Chameleon)

Edited September 7, 2018 by Mclaneinc

[emkay]

It wouldn't work, the engine in Callisto is bespoke and was designed around the fixed speed scrolling and sprite handling code, none of which translates into something that the kind of game doing multi-directional, player-controlled scrolling needs.

Thanks for the statement.

[TMR]

Thanks for the statement.

Rather goes against your stance that games are easy to write, doesn't it...

[emkay]

Rather goes against your stance that games are easy to write, doesn't it...

You actually explained what I did expect: The Atari version looks great, but there is no chance to turn it into something "Sam's Journey" like. On the C64 you don't need all the Interrupt handling for the "sprites". Just add the 8 way scrolling there.

[_The Doctor__]

emkay please.... just because it gets done a different way doesn't mean it's not possible...

 

so what you always seem to say is you can only cross the street starting and hopping on your left foot.... anybody trying to use both legs or hopping on their right legs can never get across. pffffft

[TMR]

You actually explained what I did expect: The Atari version looks great, but there is no chance to turn it into something "Sam's Journey" like.

There isn't because Sam's Journey is a significantly different and indeed more complicated game than Callisto... all those programming skills you've been bragging about recently really should've told you that without needing to ask.

 

My sprite code in Callisto could theoretically be used for an eight way scrolling platformer of some kind with modification though, but an engine designed for handling a platform game would need to be written.

 

On the C64 you don't need all the Interrupt handling for the "sprites". Just add the 8 way scrolling there.

Sam's Journey is running a sorting multiplexer so there's still quite a bit of interrupt handling for the sprites going on including the time taken to scan through the list of active objects before sorting them into Y order - the difference is that the interrupts kick in where needed so are actually harder to deal with than Callisto's fixed, "can't do anything for 160 scanlines" approach. The doors, bounders, springs, cannons, t-shirts, chests, flags and so forth all use hardware sprites along with the enemies and Sam himself, so quite a bit of stuff needs to be at least updated by the engine each frame even if some of it isn't currently visible, all of which merrily munches through processing time.

 

And it really isn't a case of "just add[ing] the 8 way scrolling" because, from a technical level, what's going on there is bloody difficult to actually code; it's brute force moving the display RAM around and the C64 has to race the raster when updating the $D800 colour RAM too. It's using enough CPU grind per frame that the PAL code wouldn't be fixable for the lower cycle count of an NTSC C64, that's why it needs a RAM expansion's DMA to shunt the landscape around.

[emkay]

And it really isn't a case of "just add[ing] the 8 way scrolling" because, from a technical level, what's going on there is bloody difficult to actually code; it's brute force moving the display RAM around and the C64 has to race the raster when updating the $D800 colour RAM too. It's using enough CPU grind per frame that the PAL code wouldn't be fixable for the lower cycle count of an NTSC C64, that's why it needs a RAM expansion's DMA to shunt the landscape around.

Now I understand. You're coding on the C64 in prior. If you was writing, how easy it is to do a sprite game with scrolling on the C64, You'd put yourself down.

It's also interesting, as we had a discussion when it was about Reaxion. Where you clearly stated about the expense for just having the cursor colored, to have at least "one sprite" looking like the C64 version.

What makes me puking in this thread is that we were always discussing the weakest spot of the Atari which makes it look like I'd put the whole machine down.

Edited September 7, 2018 by emkay