Dragon's Lair is sold out!

[unhuman]

On 6/28/2021 at 7:03 PM, Vorticon said:

Brandishing my boxed copy: "out of my cold dead hand!"

I bet there are a lot of lucky owners who feel the same way, so I would say that makes it unobtainium...

Mine is obtanium, but nobody has offered much....  So, it sits in box until I dig it out if I want... 

[Jeff White]

Considering there are only 327 active 99/4A and/or 99/4A emulator users in the world and that most who wanted a copy received it, I do not consider it rare.

 

But it is well done!

[TPR]

20 minutes ago, Jeff White said:

Considering there are only 327 active 99/4A and/or 99/4A emulator users in the world

Where do those stats come from?

 

21 minutes ago, Jeff White said:

most who wanted a copy received it, I do not consider it rare.

I agree with this!  IMO, "rare" is based on how much of an item was made available versus how many people that do not have that item and also want it.  The fact that 155 are out there, and are STILL out there, and will probably be out there as long as there is a TI-99 4/A community, I'm not sure it's even as rare as some Vectrex or ColecoVision games I've seen produced.  At least based on if those stats are accurate.

[idflyfish]

I decided to pull my TI out of the closet and get caught up on the going's on. Imagine my surprise to see this thread! This is unbelievable! 

[+arcadeshopper]

Considering there are only 327 active 99/4A and/or 99/4A emulator users in the world and that most who wanted a copy received it, I do not consider it rare.
 
But it is well done!

Hmm I have about 1600 members in my Facebook ti99ers group..

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

[eebuckeye]

I'd consider it at least rare..  How easy is it for someone to get a copy if they want?  Not very..  Collectors outside of the TI want items such as this and it is quite difficult to get.

[+arcadeshopper]

I'd consider it at least rare..  How easy is it for someone to get a copy if they want?  Not very..  Collectors outside of the TI want items such as this and it is quite difficult to get.

Gotta find someone willing to part with theirs. Good luck



Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

[+adamantyr]

The main issue to a 2nd run is the licensing. Mike didn't want to pursue it because there were issues with the first run. If someone solves all that for him, that may change things.

[xahmol]

Saw this thread active again, so had some hope of acquiring a copy ? alas.

I only got a TI-99/4a again after the first batch was long sold out. But if anybody wants to part with theirs, or if there is ever a second run, I am in.

 

[xahmol]

And can fully imagine licence issues to be a problem for a second run.

 

License issues were also what stopped the C64 port alas, came no further than this work in progress:

http://dragonslair64.areaaperta.com/dl64/dl64-fmv-download/

[+adamantyr]

A couple years ago, Tursi laid out what would be needed for a 2nd run:
 

- someone else needs to negotiate and pay for the license from Digital Leisure - note that this likely includes a minimum quantity up front
- the packing materials need to be redesigned (I don't know exactly what, but the license holders noted any new version needs something changed ;) )
- someone else needs to pay for the packing materials (labels and boxes and insets)
- someone else needs to buy the raw programmed PCBs from me wholesale
- someone else needs to assemble the carts (including sourcing their own shells), sell them, and distribute them

I am willing to help with contacts and introductions, and the programming of the PCBs. I have enough blank PCBs to do a fairly good sized run. However I won't do anything without license in hand.

The key words here are "Someone else".

[idflyfish]

9 hours ago, adamantyr said:

A couple years ago, Tursi laid out what would be needed for a 2nd run:
 

- someone else needs to negotiate and pay for the license from Digital Leisure - note that this likely includes a minimum quantity up front
- the packing materials need to be redesigned (I don't know exactly what, but the license holders noted any new version needs something changed ;) )
- someone else needs to pay for the packing materials (labels and boxes and insets)
- someone else needs to buy the raw programmed PCBs from me wholesale
- someone else needs to assemble the carts (including sourcing their own shells), sell them, and distribute them

I am willing to help with contacts and introductions, and the programming of the PCBs. I have enough blank PCBs to do a fairly good sized run. However I won't do anything without license in hand.

The key words here are "Someone else".

I don't blame him.

[unhuman]

18 hours ago, xahmol said:

Saw this thread active again, so had some hope of acquiring a copy ? alas.

I only got a TI-99/4a again after the first batch was long sold out. But if anybody wants to part with theirs, or if there is ever a second run, I am in.

 

DM me an offer.  I'll accept or decline.  Mine is new in original box - never opened.

[Tursi]

I actually asked about a second run license, and I got a "let me check", and never heard back again. I could probably get a response with increased persistence... I'm not exactly high on their radar.

 

I don't know about the C64 guys, but I didn't do any work on mine beyond proof of concept until I already had the license in hand.. it was really the license that spurred me on.

 

[Pheonix]

About the C64 - There is already a Dragon's Lair for the C64 produced in the 80's.  I do not believe it was released by the current license holder, and there may have been 3rd party issues involved with producing a re-make.

[Tursi]

28 minutes ago, Pheonix said:

About the C64 - There is already a Dragon's Lair for the C64 produced in the 80's.  I do not believe it was released by the current license holder, and there may have been 3rd party issues involved with producing a re-make.

More likely they just started the project without getting permission - that's how most homebrews work.

 

I don't think anyone from back then managed a lifetime license to Dragon's Lair, otherwise EA would still be milking it.

 

As far as I understand (from what I had to report), copyright is still held by Don Bluth, trademark is maintained by Bluth Group Ltd, and licensing is handled by Digital Leisure, Inc on behalf of Dragon's Lair LLC. Something along those lines anyway. I bet nobody's read the full copyright text screen. 

 

 

There's also an unused win screen on the cartridge. I didn't like how it looked in the end so coded it out.

 

 

These are the pre-converted images, of course

 

(edit) Hey, the win code is even still checked into source control: https://github.com/tursilion/gigacart/blob/ecd84dfa0d8599868a015d297d0f3f0775778a85/code/DragonsLair.a99#L1677

 

* game won! we're done!	
arcadec4
* display the win screen. Give it a long timeout, but do timeout.
* Win screen is ugly, never mind ;)
*	LI R0,>2a5f
*	LI R1,18000			* about 5 minutes
*	BL @SHOWANDPAUSE

* we're done. Back to the attract mode
	B @attract

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Tursi

[xahmol]

44 minutes ago, Pheonix said:

About the C64 - There is already a Dragon's Lair for the C64 produced in the 80's.  I do not believe it was released by the current license holder, and there may have been 3rd party issues involved with producing a re-make.

Know that if you mean this one ?no video in that one though.

https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Dragon's_Lair

[+OLD CS1]

1 hour ago, Pheonix said:

About the C64 - There is already a Dragon's Lair for the C64 produced in the 80's.

Yeah, but it is crap.  Not FMV like the recent home-brew.

 

44 minutes ago, Tursi said:

(edit) Hey, the win code is even still checked into source control:

So it is live in the cart?  I will give a raspberry to the first person who can get that code to run from the released cartridges.

[Tursi]

3 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

Yeah, but it is crap.  Not FMV like the recent home-brew.

 

So it is live in the cart?  I will give a raspberry to the first person who can get that code to run from the released cartridges.

Nah, it's commented out, so the code is not in the cart, only the screen. If you can convince the game to show you frame >2A5F (I think this is the page index), then you'd see it. That's smack dab in the middle of the screens for the configuration page.

 

There are three secrets in the cart , only one of which I remembered...

 

There's the diagnostics, of course, which runs when you press '5' on the options screen. Take it with a grain of salt, but it was helpful during assembly.

 

There's a 99-life cheat which I'd forgotten about, hold SHIFT when starting your game. I didn't check how long the replay queues are - it may crash or play odd things if you die too many times but play through until you reach the replay queue.

 

And a scene select, which I clearly put in there for testing and then I don't think I actually used it! Hold UP when starting the game, and you'll get a grid screen. Left and right change your scene number (displayed in the score), then fire to play just that scene. Win or lose you go back to the grid screen.

 

Unfortunately, those are the only secrets, as far as I remember. I really, really wanted to do a cheesy 99/4 mode, either in Multicolor or as a TI BASIC program that loads (I was mapping out a TI BASIC version of each scene), but I didn't get beyond running numbers and planning some scenes on those. Ultimately I just ran out of time and had to cut adding easter eggs. (As always, it seems...)

 

There is the not-really-a-secret-but-not-advertised that keyboard play is slightly easier than joystick if you know what moves to do, because you can hold the key down in advance of the correct timing, while the joystick needs to be moved at the right time. MOST of the time you are not penalized for entering a correct move early. This is because I needed to sacrifice the edge detection code to make up for the additional work scanning the keyboard requires.

 

The best secret is that you should never, ever play Arcade mode. It's stupid. Home mode, which is based on the ideas from the Dragon's Lair Project guys, is a vastly superior experience. You get the extra drawbridge scene, you get more logical (and less random) play sequence, you are not forced to play both forward and reversed versions of the same scene, and if you die twice on the same scene you get to move on anyway (except Singe's lair, of course). My favorite part is that while the arcade doesn't care where you jump off the falling platform, this version DOES, and gives you a different cavern sequence depending on which set of 3 platforms you jump off at. Arcade mode was simply designed to prevent you from practicing.

 

 

[Tursi]

For all the people who say they are desperate to get one, he'll probably give you a fair price on it.

 

[+OLD CS1]

12 minutes ago, Tursi said:

For all the people who say they are desperate to get one, he'll probably give you a fair price on it.

Indeed.  To be fair, he is one of the least likely to bilk people.

[digdugnate]

nonetheless, the Dragon's Lair cart was a feat of ingenuity, I thought.    It was really cool watching the development cycle for it as Tursi documented it.

 

I don't really have any FOMO on not having a cart package, but still thought this was something really neat that hadn't been done before on the ol' 994A.

[+OLD CS1]

57 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

nonetheless, the Dragon's Lair cart was a feat of ingenuity, I thought.    It was really cool watching the development cycle for it as Tursi documented it.

 

I don't really have any FOMO on not having a cart package, but still thought this was something really neat that hadn't been done before on the ol' 994A.

 

At the risk of sounding flagellatory, from implementation to the final product, Dragon's Lair for the TI-99/4A is a symphonic assembly and coordination of both hardware and software.  As with everything done, someone may likely find better ways to do what was done, but that does not take away from the marvel that it is and truly a piece of retro-computer history.  It will be a permanent part of my VCF exhibit, along with Don't Mess with Texas.

 

@Tursi has made the tools available for any of us with the gumption to do sequels or even other projects.  I have mused about the possibility of M.A.C.H. 3 for the 4A ("M.A.C.H. 4A?"), one of my favorite games in the BX arcade, which is way outside my current abilities.

[Albert]

I'd be glad to help secure a licensing agreement for another run of Dragons's Lair, as well as helping with physical production of the boxes, manuals, labels and other items required, PCBs, and so forth. I would need to know the details of the original agreement as well as information regarding production of the first run and how many copies we'd be shooting for with a new run. 
 

  ..Al

[+acadiel]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

I'd be glad to help secure a licensing agreement for another run of Dragons's Lair, as well as helping with physical production of the boxes, manuals, labels and other items required, PCBs, and so forth. I would need to know the details of the original agreement as well as information regarding production of the first run and how many copies we'd be shooting for with a new run. 
 

  ..Al

You rock, dear sir.