Gauging interest: Jaguar HDMI adapter

[TrekMD]

Ordered!  Thank you!

[42bs]

7 hours ago, Drobotic said:

Ordered mine, thank you Doomy! Can't wait to try it out. FYI about $95 with shipping to CA, USA.

120USD shipping to Germany, but what the h&*%, I ordered mine too.

[+Sargon]

This just isn't in the budget for me right now, so hopefully they will be around for awhile!

[PeterG]

Damn, already out of stock. I was about to go for it today. Gahhh, I'll wait for the next batch.

[42bs]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:06 AM, 42bs said:

120USD shipping to Germany, but what the h&*%, I ordered mine too.

Wrong wording, 120€ including shipping.

But, just received an email from DHL: Plus 30€ customs tax 😞

Edited November 24, 2022 by 42bs

[42bs]

Just received it and ... I am disappointed. In PAL mode the top 16lines are missing.

So if someone has no switch to go for 60Hz, avoid this 😞gadget. Esp. if one has an LCD with SCART input. The picture is not better.

I have not tested yet with an HDMI grabber. I hope there I can see the full screen.

Edited November 24, 2022 by 42bs

[42bs]

Here some picture using 240p Test Suite 0.5.1

 

SCART:

Jag2HD (w/o adjust):

 

 

 

Jag2HD (w/ adjust)

[Doomy Doomer]

42 minutes ago, 42bs said:

Just received it and ... I am disappointed. In PAL mode the top 16lines are missing.

So if someone has no switch to go for 60Hz, avoid this 😞gadget. Esp. if one has an LCD with SCART input. The picture is not better.

I have not tested yet with an HDMI grabber. I hope there I can see the full screen.

Sorry to hear you're disappointed. 😞 I don't know what SAG's return policy is but maybe reach out to them.

 

The Jag2HD uses the same RGB signals a SCART cable, so the picture wouldn't look any better unless the TV you're using has a poor scaler in it. Most modern TVs have excellent scalers but add input lag. The Jag2HD was meant to be a relatively inexpensive and easy plug and play solution for the Jag. For the best picture, you'd want to use a JagAIOA (or Plus) Amped with a high end scaler like a RetroTink 5x. Of course that would be closer to $400 USD. 

[42bs]

The 50Hz picture looks good with the frame grabber despite the missing lines.

Has it been tested with 50Hz?

Is there a way to change the sync, so that the missing 16 pixels are shown.

 

See also the JagGD menu where the end of the screen is cut.

[Doomy Doomer]

16 minutes ago, 42bs said:

The 50Hz picture looks good with the frame grabber despite the missing lines.

Has it been tested with 50Hz?

Is there a way to change the sync, so that the missing 16 pixels are shown.

 

See also the JagGD menu where the end of the screen is cut.

That does look much clearer and closer to what I see on my TVs. Hmm I don't believe there's a way to change sync. I can take a look into but it would probably require a redesign of the product. 

[42bs]

Ok, for my stuff I can increase Y start to make it fit the screen. Hopefully it will fit other's TV sets.

 

I need to check some games, but likely most are designed for NTSC and therefore only put unneeded stuff on top/bottom and use XX by 200 resolution.

 

So the positive for me:

- Sync's immediately with Framegrabber

- even with 50Hz (which is not stable with OSSC)

- as sharp as SCART

 

 

[42bs]

48 minutes ago, Doomy Doomer said:

 I don't know what SAG's return policy is but maybe reach out to them.

I won't return it. The positive points outperform the negative. (Note to myself: Test longer before reviewing )

[42bs]

Scrolling through the GD menu: Flicker

 

PAL:

Cybermorph: Score is truncated, console is truncated.

Bubsy: First menu is truncated. Score truncated.

[Doomy Doomer]

 

On 11/24/2022 at 9:21 AM, 42bs said:

Scrolling through the GD menu: Flicker

 

PAL:

Cybermorph: Score is truncated, console is truncated.

Bubsy: First menu is truncated. Score truncated.

 

 

By "flickering" in the GD menu I think you mean the highlighted bar/text shimmers a little when you move the cursor. That's part of the smoothing.

 

PAL games will be a little cropped but from what I understand about Jag's in PAL regions, the images were always a bit distorted. Here's Doom 60hz vs 50hz:

(source: https://youtu.be/S8Wk5r87njs)

Edited November 25, 2022 by Doomy Doomer

[42bs]

It is not 'little' cropped. 16 lines is a lot.

[Doomy Doomer]

15 minutes ago, 42bs said:

It is not 'little' cropped. 16 lines is a lot.

Fair enough but the point I was making is PAL signal out from the Jag is already distorted. 

[42bs]

27 minutes ago, Doomy Doomer said:

Fair enough but the point I was making is PAL signal out from the Jag is already distorted. 

They are not. And all SCART to HDMI converters I tried never cropped the output. 

And, distortion is not cropping. 

So the point is, the Jag2HD seems not to be tested with PAL Jaguars and it should be mentioned that it is not suited for PAL.

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by 42bs

[Doomy Doomer]

48 minutes ago, 42bs said:

They are not. And all SCART to HDMI converters I tried never cropped the output. 

And, distortion is not cropping. 

So the point is, the Jag2HD seems not to be tested with PAL Jaguars and it should be mentioned that it is not suited for PAL.

 

We're beating a dead horse here... Might be a language break down but I never said cropping is distortion. I was referring to the native output of 50hz Jag games and how they clearly look distorted (just look at that doom example above) when compared to 60hz counterparts. I did test the adapter with an NTSC jag modded with a region switch. I saw the crop as typical weird image from PAL Jags when compared to the 60hz versions. I'll add a disclaimer tomorrow about the crop.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Doomy Doomer

[42bs]

27 minutes ago, Doomy Doomer said:

I said 50hz Jag games clearly look distorted

I run the 240p test suite and use the grid pattern. With SCART the squares on my TV set are perfectly 15 x 15 mm², with Jag2HD these are 15 x 17 mm², means stretched.

So it is not a Jaguar PAL problem but a Jag2HD problem.

 

With SCART the grid shows shows vertically 16 white/blue complete squares with half red ones, with Jag2HD only 14 complete and 2 half white ones.

 

Note: Of course I run 4:3 mode, no zooming in the TV set.

Edited November 26, 2022 by 42bs

[Doomy Doomer]

1 minute ago, 42bs said:

I run the 240p test suite and use the grid pattern. With SCART the squares on my TV set are perfectly 15 x 15 mm², with Jag2HD these are 15 x 17 mm², means stretched.

So it is not a Jaguar PAL problem but a Jag2HD problem.

 

With SCART the grid shows shows vertically 16 white/blue complete squares with half red ones, with Jag2HD only 14 complete and 2 half white ones.

 

 

You're not understanding or listening to what I'm saying. I'm not saying the cropping is a PAL issue. I'm saying the examples of NATIVE PAL Jag games I've seen look distorted compared to NTSC games, period. Nothing to do with cropping. Nothing to do with the Jag2HD. 

 

If you want to continue to argue with me though, why not DM me? Save everyone else subscribed here from this back and forth. 

[42bs]

1 minute ago, Doomy Doomer said:

You're not understanding or listening to what I'm saying. I'm not saying the cropping is a PAL issue. I'm saying the examples of NATIVE PAL Jag games I've seen look distorted compared to NTSC games, period. Nothing to do with cropping. Nothing to do with the Jag2HD. 

 

If you want to continue to argue with me though, why not DM me? Save everyone else subscribed here from this back and forth. 

You do not seem you have read my last comment. I write, with Jag2HD the picture is stretched in height which is likely the reason it is cropped. With SCART there is no  distortion at all.

 

Just do the math: Stretch factor is 17/15: 17/15 * 14 => 16 , so wow, if there would be no stretching of Jag2HD, the PAL picture would fit perfectly.

[42bs]

36 minutes ago, Doomy Doomer said:

I'll add a disclaimer tomorrow about the crop.

Better also about the distortion it produces.

[Doomy Doomer]

25 minutes ago, 42bs said:

You do not seem you have read my last comment. I write, with Jag2HD the picture is stretched in height which is likely the reason it is cropped. With SCART there is no  distortion at all.

 

Just do the math: Stretch factor is 17/15: 17/15 * 14 => 16 , so wow, if there would be no stretching of Jag2HD, the PAL picture would fit perfectly.

Of course I've read your comments but we're not talking about the same thing, which I understand but it seems you do not. All I'm saying is PAL Jag games look squished (distorted) compared to NTSC 60hz games:

If you don't think the image on the right looks distorted, than I got nothing for you. This image was taken from someone else's comparison video on YouTube (linked above) and has nothing to do with cropping, Jag2HD, etc.

 

Here is another example from "Max Fixes Stuff":

(source: https://youtu.be/z61K94SwJts)

 

 

You can clearly see that the 50hz image of the bag, text, etc is vertically distorted compared to the 60hz image. This is one of the reasons people do a 60hz switch mod on their PAL systems. So my entire point was, PAL games have always looked distorted compared to their 60hz counterparts. 

 

Quote

Better also about the distortion it produces.

I'll make sure to let them know it's distorted in the other direction than what they're used to. 🤪

Edited November 26, 2022 by Doomy Doomer

[42bs]

In the pictures you present, the 50Hz pixels are perfectly square and the the 60Hz ones are not. So I ask you, is perfectly square a distorted rectangle? Maybe, nevertheless, Jag2HD stretches the 50Hz video so that perfectly square pixels become rectangles.

[Doomy Doomer]

1 minute ago, 42bs said:

In the pictures you present, the 50Hz pixels are perfectly square and the the 60Hz ones are not. So I ask you, is perfectly square a distorted rectangle? Maybe, nevertheless, Jag2HD stretches the 50Hz video so that perfectly square pixels become rectangles.

Best of luck to you.