+MrFish Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 55 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said: Quick and dirty concept sketch. This what you had in mind? Initially, no. I was just thinking of something similar to the original, only in an XE-styled case. But, I also was thinking of a new XE case altogether, which would house both the XE machine and CX85 in one unit (similar to an ST case). What you've got there is kinda cool too, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XL Freak Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 I guess the cx85 works with a small device driver, or did a software package have its own built-in support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrFish said: I also was thinking of a new XE case altogether, which would house both the XE machine and CX85 in one unit (similar to an ST case) Hahaha. Yes, to tell you the truth, I've been thinking about this for a while, and even started some FreeCAD work to build new cases... Your idea catalyzed it and gave me the idea of also having a separate extension unit as an option. 1 hour ago, XL Freak said: I see. let me know if I can help Please do. That layout above was a great start. Could be good to also integrate this into the general layout that we use for ordering caps, so we can order a number of them full instead of TKL and build a stock of caps for this module. 1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said: direction keys could have joystick graphic next to them What do you mean by "joystick graphics"? This guy? 1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said: cx85 had overlays for different software packages to let the keys mean whatever they decided to use them for I did not know that. Do you have pointers to examples? 1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said: the keypad handler could be extended with as many keys as people like Not sure what you mean by that: the number of keys is limited to what matrix you can build with 5 wires + GND. CX85 maxes this out, pretty much. 1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said: you could take this all the way and have joy 2 b functionality etc Can you explain exactly what you have in mind with this? Edited March 13, 2023 by ScreamingAtTheRadio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, XL Freak said: I guess the cx85 works with a small device driver, or did a software package have its own built-in support? There was some software supporting it, is my understanding. So it won't work as a regular numpad without that software. Others can probably give better info about this, or whether it's possible to support it with some kind of driver sneakily working in the background. For F1-F4 to be integrated in the package, I'd have to route some wiring into the main unit. I'll think about how to do that without harming your XE case. If we are going to do that though, there might be a hardware solution to the above, with a switch to make the numpad work everywhere by emulating the regular keys. In that case, why not go all the way and do the same for directions? Half-backed thoughts here. No idea if any of this will be doable. An idea for internal connection could be to have new adapters that would have an extension port for it in addition to the current 26 pin FFC connector. Edited March 13, 2023 by ScreamingAtTheRadio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 I checked, and there's a small gap above the joystick ports that should be enough to route a small flat cable without damaging anything. You'd probably have to remove the motherboard while you pass it through, but that's it, no new holes necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Spancho Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 52 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said: Not sure what you mean by that: the number of keys is limited to what matrix you can build with 5 wires + GND. CX85 maxes this out, pretty much. Can you explain exactly what you have in mind with this? With 5 bits you can decode 32 keys, see attached mapping table for the cx85. Adding the trigger input might give 6 bits and 64 key values. on the driver side you can map any combination to any key value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenames99 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 2 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said: Quick and dirty concept sketch. This what you had in mind? Oh God! I hope not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenames99 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 1 hour ago, MrFish said: Initially, no. I was just thinking of something similar to the original, only in an XE-styled case. But, I also was thinking of a new XE case altogether, which would house both the XE machine and CX85 in one unit (similar to an ST case). What you've got there is kinda cool too, though. Yea, that is what I would like to see. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, Spancho said: With 5 bits you can decode 32 keys, see attached mapping table for the cx85. Adding the trigger input might give 6 bits and 64 key values. on the driver side you can map any combination to any key value. Right, of course, not sure where I left my brain. 7 minutes ago, kenames99 said: Oh God! I hope not! LOL, why? I think it's neat to give the option to add the features without completely changing the case. Different people like different things 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenames99 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 I was hoping 130xe style. It is my favorite even tho I have loads of 600xl and 800xl. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, kenames99 said: I was hoping 130xe style. It is my favorite even tho I have loads of 600xl and 800xl. I don't understand: the drawing is XE styled. Is my drawing that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) I think he'd like slanted keys in the top bar like the option key is etc. / XE style/. joy2b+ and snack are well covered on AA forums. yes joystick icon like that other question already answered pretty much by another. Edited March 13, 2023 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: I think he'd like slanted keys in the top bar like the option key is etc. / XE style/. Yeah, well, those are considerably harder to make. Will depend whether we can get this solved. Also, they take a lot more space, we may not have enough width without making it comically large. 26 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: joy2b+ and snack are well covered on AA forums. mmm, a search didn't return anything. Got a pointer? Nevermind. Found this one: And this: Edited March 13, 2023 by ScreamingAtTheRadio add question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) I'd suspect only 3, possibly 4 slanted xe bar keys would be the case. overlayetc. they driver can also be set to do start select option etc but if we extend it or think outside the box, a reversible wedge could be a joy center keypad hybrid on one side and the standard professional CX85 17 key plus whatever on the other side. Edited March 13, 2023 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: I'd suspect only 3, possibly 4 slanted xe bar keys would be the case. overlayetc. they driver can also be set to do start select option etc but if we extend it or think outside the box, a reversible wedge could be a joy center keypad hybrid on one side and the standard professional CX85 17 key plus whatever on the other side. I see, I didn't realize it is basically a macropad. I wasn't familiar with the peripheral until last night Yes, joykey/joy2b/snack/CX85 hybrid sounds like a good starting point. Would be nice to have space for a bunch of controller types on the back. I'll study it more when I'm off work. I'm particularly curious about the software side of this. I like that adding joystick functionality actually doesn't require software to just work though. Please keep sending ideas, this should be fun to design and build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenames99 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 2 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said: I don't understand: the drawing is XE styled. Is my drawing that bad? well, maybe it is like a picture I posted on facebook last evening, dark and fuzzy. I will go have another look tho, I was on my phone and did not have my glasses ata the time so... Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Eyvind Bernhardsen Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 I searched the topic and couldn't find anybody asking if this project is XEGS compatible. My XEGS keyboard looks like the one on this page: https://www.the-liberator.net/site-files/retro-games/hardware/Atari-XE/atari-xe-keyboard.htm, which seems to have the same circular stem keycaps shown earlier in this thread, except that they're doubleshot. The XEGS keyboard layout looks identical to the 130XE one, down to the start/select/option/reset keys that are hidden by the bezel (these confused me a lot the first time I opened one). The ribbon cable seems to be the same. Am I missing something important, or is there a hope of finally getting an XEGS with a comfortable typing experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Eyvind Bernhardsen said: I searched the topic and couldn't find anybody asking if this project is XEGS compatible. That's been on the back of my mind for a while, but not having one myself to try with, I can't be 100% sure it will work, but I'm probably near 96%: the XEGS is largely reusing existing designs, and photos confirm the keyboard assembly is the same (except maybe for a little bit of help key stabilizer column removed), with an additional board that moves the control of the keyboard to inside that enclosure. As you noticed it even has the five function keys in there, plunger and spring included, just hidden by the enclosure. Those are just replicated in the main box. One question could be how the new keyboard will fit inside the smaller case, as there are two columns on top that restrict the height of the board, that don't exist in the XE case: However, the new board is pretty much flush with the top of the function keys, so it should be no issue at all. We also need to consider the clearance for the adapter and FFC cable, and again things look fine: There seems to be very little space above that connector, and it may not fit directly, but I can see two ways to make it work: 1. desolder the Atari connector, replace it with pin headers and solder the adapter horizontally above the board 2. rotate the board almost 180 degrees so the connector is more to the back and so we have more clearance for the adapter; I think this can be done while keeping it screwed in the central hole, but worst case you keep it in place with hot glue. For the help key, if modern caps are chosen for the work, I'd just use a low-profile switch for that one key, so we can use an adapter and keep the vintage key since we don't have a 3d model to print a new one. So yeah, it will almost certainly just work, with both modern and vintage caps. It would be pretty cool to see it work in fact. Edited March 14, 2023 by ScreamingAtTheRadio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Eyvind Bernhardsen Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 3 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said: We also need to consider the clearance for the adapter and FFC cable I was wondering where the adapter goes. I can try to measure the clearance between the board and the PCB. Turning the PCB around might be tricky because the external cable doesn’t have a lot of play. It might make sense to replace it with a longer one anyway, of course. I’m pretty sure I still have an extra XEGS keyboard with defective Mylar to experiment on, but I’m going to have to dig around for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 minute ago, Eyvind Bernhardsen said: Turning the PCB around might be tricky because the external cable doesn’t have a lot of play. It might make sense to replace it with a longer one anyway, of course. Here's another idea: turn it around and move it to the left of the case: we can source longer FFC cables easily that would easily fill the gap and that would not be a problem with the length of the external cable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbelcher Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 On 3/3/2023 at 5:26 PM, XL Freak said: this is the latest version of the beige cap set, which will be uploaded to github shortly if you notice, it has all the variations of the inverse key that were asked for, but only one bell bottom logo, next to the left shift key if anyone has a great idea for a replacement Esc key, let me know, i'll incorporate it if possible I'm having trouble finding the SVGs for WASD keyboards on the github repository at: https://github.com/bleroy/3d-junkyard/tree/main/Atari130MX Could you direct me to the files please? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, cbelcher said: I'm having trouble finding the SVGs for WASD keyboards on the github repository at: https://github.com/bleroy/3d-junkyard/tree/main/Atari130MX That's because everything for the current version is still in a separate branch, that I'll merge when I'm done with changes to the readme. You can find the files here: https://github.com/bleroy/3d-junkyard/tree/le-clavier-xe/Atari130MX/Caps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 I just received two big packages from China. I now have all the parts to start building pre-orders, except for the caps, that I expect in a few days. I'll start assembling this week-end, to hopefully ship the first wave early next week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 ... aaaaaand... the key caps just showed up Check this out: 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenames99 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 So cool! 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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