Atari 130XE keyboard rebuild: vintage keycaps on modern switches

[XL Freak]

nice!!

[_The Doctor__]

12 hours ago, Stephen said:

Finally - here it is!  My original xmas 1988 present, getting another fine upgrade.  Full album is here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/75619516@N06/albums/72177720307232662 I have some ideas for the function keys.

 

It's a thing of beauty! Form! and Function! Very easy on the eyes I'd say. Nicely done.

[kenames99]

18 hours ago, Stephen said:

Finally - here it is!  My original xmas 1988 present, getting another fine upgrade.  Full album is here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/75619516@N06/albums/72177720307232662 I have some ideas for the function keys.

 

Really cool Stephen! I will post a photo of mine when finally in permanent 130XE. Nice white keys in mine. Except the function keys, they are grey like yours.

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

Hi everyone! It's been a crazy month of March as I spent most of my free time ordering parts and supplies, building keyboards, doing fun stuff like accounting and taxes, and shipping. I'm always happy to see the results such as @Stephen's beautifully maintained computer since the 80s. It's an honor to see my work in such a beautiful piece of computer history. The support from y'all has been outstanding and I thank you for that and also of course for helping me finance the project.

 

So this is a good time to reflect on where the project is going and what I'm going to work on next.

 

First, I'm not going to get out of my way to promote these keyboards, because if I do, it could evidently eat up all of my time and I don't want to do just that. I'm happy to build the occasional keyboard or ship the occasional kit (PM me for that), but most of all I want to design new stuff.

 

Hot on the success of revision 11, I already ordered a prototype batch of revision 12. The differences are:

• The connector has been moved to the top layer so it can be assembled at the factory with the rest of the surface-mount components. It sits now to the right of the space and break keys. That means the routing of the cable will be a little different: it will have to wrap around the bottom of the keyboard and under the shield if you have one (fortunately those cables are incredibly thin).
• The power LED is now surface mount and assembled at the fab house. It's a little mystery why I didn't think of that earlier
• There's a new 4-pin connector on the top-right of the board that exposes the wiring for the 4 optional F1-4 keys. This is useful for people who want to have those keys but don't want to butcher their XE case. With this connector, you can put these four switches anywhere you want. But the real reason is that I'm working on a really nice way to get those keys and more (see below).
• The adapter is now much smaller on the z-axis, as the FFC connector has been moved to the left of the Atari connector. This way, there's ample vertical space under the shielding and it's less necessary to replace the connector with pin headers.
• The plate outline now doesn't cover the power LED area.

Now for the new projects...

 

First, as somebody suggested in this thread, I've been working with @XL Freak on a CX85-like peripheral for XE computers: the Sidecar XE85. The electronic design on that is complete, and a prototype batch has been ordered. It's 100% compatible with the CX85 and the software that targets it, but has more features on top of it:

• Plugs directly into the joystick ports
• New modern XE-style key caps (we'll do the same colors as the Decent XE modern caps)
• Exposes a pass-through set of joystick ports on the right of the unit
• Uses the same keyboard controller as the original, which allows for a 4x5 key matrix (that the original underused with only 17 keys)
• Switch to turn off the extra keys and use the pass-through joystick on port 2
• ST-like layout
• XE-style F1-F4 keys on top, plugged via a small cable through the joystick port opening into the rev 12 keyboard's new connector (for earlier revisions, you'll have to solder your own wires)
• Cursor keys implement a joystick on port 1 (it basically has a built-in JoyKey Mini)
• Backlighting (with a pot to change intensity)
• Online configuration tool that will generate 6502 assembly code to control the unit with customized settings
• Custom 3D-printed case
• All open-source as usual

And well, for that custom case, it'll have to look like a small XE case. That brings me to the other project that I've been working on...

 

A new open-source 3D-printed case for the XE. The same design will be adapted to be able to house:

• the above Sidecar XE85
• an original or modern Atari XE computer (with possible integration of F1-F4)
• a full-size version that includes a computer and sidecar in a single ST-like unit
• a XE-style USB keyboard for your modern computing needs.

Those cases are factored with more parts than the vintage one to make it possible to have high-quality prints where all exposed surfaces minimize printing lines even when printed "at home". The back will accommodate for exchangeable plates for different configurations of ports, including modern video ports and other custom expansions.

 

Also, I want a transparent XE, and a black one  I suspect I'm not the only one.

Edited April 11, 2023 by ScreamingAtTheRadio

[+MrFish]

55 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

• a full-size version that includes a computer and sidecar in a single ST-like unit

Yes

 

55 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

The back will accommodate for exchangeable plates for different configurations of ports, including modern video ports and other custom expansions.

Good idea

 

55 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

Also, I want a transparent XE, and a black one  I suspect I'm not the only one.

Definitely interested to see a black XE. Also, a black translucent (like one of the modern cart cases that's been produced) case...

 

[+MrFish]

27 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Also, a black translucent (like one of the modern cart cases that's been produced) case...

Here are the ones I'm talking about: Black Translucent Cart Shells

 

[XL Freak]

"smoked" polycarb / acrylic

Edited April 11, 2023 by XL Freak

[Dysphoria]

Like the SIDE3 cartridge?

[kenames99]

that all looks really great. I may be in for a transparent case. awesome!

 

ken

 

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

Now for the new projects...

 

 

First, as somebody suggested in this thread, I've been working with @XL Freak on a CX85-like peripheral for XE computers: the Sidecar XE85. The electronic design on that is complete, and a prototype batch has been ordered. It's 100% compatible with the CX85 and the software that targets it, but has more features on top of it:

• Plugs directly into the joystick ports
• New modern XE-style key caps (we'll do the same colors as the Decent XE modern caps)
• Exposes a pass-through set of joystick ports on the right of the unit
• Uses the same keyboard controller as the original, which allows for a 4x5 key matrix (that the original underused with only 17 keys)
• Switch to turn off the extra keys and use the pass-through joystick on port 2
• ST-like layout
• XE-style F1-F4 keys on top, plugged via a small cable through the joystick port opening into the rev 12 keyboard's new connector (for earlier revisions, you'll have to solder your own wires)
• Cursor keys implement a joystick on port 1 (it basically has a built-in JoyKey Mini)
• Backlighting (with a pot to change intensity)
• Online configuration tool that will generate 6502 assembly code to control the unit with customized settings
• Custom 3D-printed case
• All open-source as usual

 

Damn dude - might as well just give you the details to my bank account so you can drain it.

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

So well yes, any material you can 3D print should be fair to use (there are even some stone-like materials that would look, well, so weird to make a computer out of). Keep in mind though that fab houses have very limited options and can become quite expensive for an object the size of a full computer case. I do want one made from PCBWay's clear plastic though, Mark Fixes Stuff showed an Amiga case printed in this material and it looks amazing. Now the stuff you can print at home won't be nearly the same quality. In particular, transparency does not like print lines, and may require heavy post-processing.

The Side3-like carts are almost certainly injection-molded, and even though this has dropped in price, it's still way out of reach from a project this size. You'd need a kickstarter or something of the sort to reach the right scale and justify the cost. But eh, the 3D model will be there and open-source, so...

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

I started writing the driver for the USB adapter, having fun with PWM:

 

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

New adapter protos are here, and they work great. They will be better with the new location for the keyboard connector however:

And here's a side view of the clearance above the board with a card giving the level of the bottom of the keyboard:

Edited April 18, 2023 by ScreamingAtTheRadio

[_The Doctor__]

isn't it the same height either way? or is there a trace issue that couldn't be solved on the other end etc.?

if there is a fear the kbc swipes would touch surface mount connector could it not be rear mounted?

I guess with a long enough cable I could route it out the hole in the shielding like it used to be.

 

either way it would need to get over there for the keyboard end of the ribbon connection yes?

Edited April 18, 2023 by _The Doctor__

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

isn't it the same height either way?

No, this one is several mm less tall, and the FFC connector top is even lower than that.

 

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

is there a trace issue that couldn't be solved on the other end etc.?

Yes, there are limits on what you can route on a two-layer PCB. The previous design was hitting that limit *and* had the connector way higher. The fit because of that was not great, with parts pushing against each other in ways that problematic, to the point where my recommendation was to replace the Atari connector and mount the adapter on pin headers so it would be horizontal.

 

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

if there is a fear the kbc swipes would touch surface mount connector could it not be rear mounted?

Not sure what you mean by that, the reason why the connector is on this side on this version is that the connector on rev 12 of the keyboard is on the top side (so it can be assembled with the other surface mount components at the fab house) and this is the best place to put it to minimize constraints on the cable.

 

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

I guess with a long enough cable I could route it out the hole in the shielding like it used to be.

Yes, you could, (I just did), but this adapter is made for rev 12 where the cable will go through the shielding on the front. It will all become clear when I receive the rev 12 boards and I can take photos of the new assembly.

 

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

either way it would need to get over there for the keyboard end of the ribbon connection yes?

No, the cable will go a completely different route on rev 12.

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

I'm making my last three test modern keyboards for rev 11, fully assembled and tested, available for sale. There's one in each color (beige, graphite and white). Drop me a PM if you're interested in buying one of these:

[+Stephen]

I cannot describe how nice it is typing on this keyboard.  I had a request to do a video.  I think what I will try to do, is compare this to some modern PC keyboard.  I can do a comparison of a Razer Blackwidow Chroma, a RedDragon, and the Kali Pink switches in this. I just don't know how it will come across in a video.  I don't have any measurement equipment for the forces involved in typing.  I fear all it will be is a clickity clackity typing video with a ton of typos.  Thoughts?  There will be no stupid faces, no asking for likes and subscriptions.  Probably, there will be no video.

[Dysphoria]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:32 PM, Stephen said:

 

I cannot describe how nice it is typing on this keyboard.

 

I agree! This keyboard has a better feel to it than my Razer Huntsman with optical switches. I know a good deal of the feel comes down to the switches, but the assembly is solid and shows that a lot of work went into the design.

 

Instead of calling it “Decent” it should be called “Bespoke”.

[Matej]

Please 1x Graphite for me. And 1x KeyJoyPad. Keys are color ABS original or painted?

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

30 minutes ago, Matej said:

Keys are color ABS original or painted?

Caps are UV-coated ABS from WASD: Our Build Process - WASD Keyboards

[XL Freak]

this is my keyboard. patiently waiting for it's case to come back from england. it's being repaired and upgraded

the keycap legends are printed in a smoothed atari 8 bit font. and i'm a fan of the two tone white/beige theme. can't wait for my machine to get back 😃 

[MattS]

Sorry in advance if this sounds stupid.

 

I ordered the PCB and forgot to have the components soldered.  Not a big deal now that i have all the components.  I just wanted to clarify that the LED SMT goes "within the keycap border" and the resistor on the pads just outside?  The diodes are easy to figure out since they are the different size pads.  Just wanted to ask all of you before i solder them.

 

Thank you in advance.

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

19 hours ago, MattS said:

Sorry in advance if this sounds stupid.

 

I ordered the PCB and forgot to have the components soldered.  Not a big deal now that i have all the components.  I just wanted to clarify that the LED SMT goes "within the keycap border" and the resistor on the pads just outside?  The diodes are easy to figure out since they are the different size pads.  Just wanted to ask all of you before i solder them.

 

Thank you in advance.

Yes, that’s correct.

[MattS]

9 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

Yes, that’s correct.

Thank you very much!

[as...]

Somewhere In the Poland:

I use in my almost std. 130xe this keyboard.
Keybord spring / rubber (new with full serwis) 
= its like a bird vs falcon vs this keybord

Edited May 1, 2023 by as...