ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted December 17, 2022 Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Matej said: This looks beautiful any chance to get 2x fully assembled (I have joystick cable)? PM me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XL Freak Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 On 12/9/2022 at 8:38 PM, XL Freak said: wasd only allows for the standard 6.25U spacebar. since the 130 spacebar is 9U, there needs to be two 1.5U keys, one on each side of the spacebar, with a little extra space in-between. misprint: there should be two "1.25U" keys on each side of the 6.25U spacebar, with a little space between the keys, ie. 1.19mm on the outsides and between the three keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 I've been watching the thread for a while, and I am a big fan, and I am going to attempt this build. My soldering skills for years were such that I destroyed everything I touched, but at this point I'd say I've achieved the level of can do the simple soldering jobs - such as I managed to install a u1mb the other day. Anyway, so I'm starting with the list of materials and gathering that, I ordered 5 PCBs from JLCPCB. 1 stainless steel metal plate from ponoko. I didn't really follow the discussion on stabilizers but hopefully I can look into that more later, and now upon reading about the choices for keyboard connector, someone with my limited skills shoudl probably not replace the motherboard's keyboard connector, so that if I fail - I just don't have a new keyboard, rather than destroy my Atari. So, I tried to order the 130MX adapter from JLCPCB, but it just says file successful and that I need to complete the order form. Doesn't allow any option to buy it unless I enter in the dimensions. I don't know why it didn't pull it, if it is something about what I did - which is just zipped up the directory from github and uploaded it. I couldn't figure out what the dimensions were from poking around inside various files.... anyway, I've never before ordered this type of thing, so I just don't know what I'm doing. Can someone point me in the right direction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Mark2008 said: I've been watching the thread for a while, and I am a big fan, and I am going to attempt this build. My soldering skills for years were such that I destroyed everything I touched, but at this point I'd say I've achieved the level of can do the simple soldering jobs - such as I managed to install a u1mb the other day. Anyway, so I'm starting with the list of materials and gathering that, I ordered 5 PCBs from JLCPCB. 1 stainless steel metal plate from ponoko. I didn't really follow the discussion on stabilizers but hopefully I can look into that more later, and now upon reading about the choices for keyboard connector, someone with my limited skills shoudl probably not replace the motherboard's keyboard connector, so that if I fail - I just don't have a new keyboard, rather than destroy my Atari. So, I tried to order the 130MX adapter from JLCPCB, but it just says file successful and that I need to complete the order form. Doesn't allow any option to buy it unless I enter in the dimensions. I don't know why it didn't pull it, if it is something about what I did - which is just zipped up the directory from github and uploaded it. I couldn't figure out what the dimensions were from poking around inside various files.... anyway, I've never before ordered this type of thing, so I just don't know what I'm doing. Can someone point me in the right direction? The Fabrication folder should already have zip files that you can upload directly to JLCPCB. What I think happened is that you uploaded the whole folder containing multiple PCBs, thus confusing JLCPCB. Try again with the single zips that are already there. If in doubt, you can open them and view the files inside with a Gerber file viewer, but the JLCPCB web site should do just that. Make sure you select the right thickness for the adapter before you order, or it won't fit into the connector. Edited December 22, 2022 by ScreamingAtTheRadio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said: The Fabrication folder should already have zip files that you can upload directly to JLCPCB. Thanks! ...order placed, successfully. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) No surpise if I've gone off course... But let's see if we can figure out what I did wrong. So, basically the metal piece that I have has five holes, and the printed circuit board that I have, only has 4 matching holes, the hole that would be at the top and left, just isn't there.. Further the metal piece would lay over the top of an area meant for soldering something or other, so given that metal can conduct electricity, i assume it will short the board out. the uploaded picture may be on its side, but basically what I did for the purposes of taking the photo is slightly slid down the metal piece from where it would sit, so you could see the row of holes it would cover. What I assume has probably occurred is I have a mis matched set. A metal piece and/or circuit board design during a different year. My metal piece looks like it would work with the circuit board I see in the picture from 2021 at the start of this thread. Edited January 10, 2023 by Mark2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mark2008 said: No surpise if I've gone off course... But let's see if we can figure out what I did wrong. So, basically the metal piece that I have has five holes, and the printed circuit board that I have, only has 4 matching holes, the hole that would be at the top and left, just isn't there.. Further the metal piece would lay over the top of an area meant for soldering something or other, so given that metal can conduct electricity, i assume it will short the board out. the uploaded picture may be on its side, but basically what I did for the purposes of taking the photo is slightly slid down the metal piece from where it would sit, so you could see the row of holes it would cover. What I assume has probably occurred is I have a mis matched set. A metal piece and/or circuit board design during a different year. My metal piece looks like it would work with the circuit board I see in the picture from 2021 at the start of this thread. You did nothing wrong. The plate holds the switches and then the switches are soldered onto the PCB, which should naturally ensure the distance between the plate and the PCB is sufficient and you won't get any shorts (plus, the solder is going to be on the other side of the board). You can use small vinyl washers as spacers too, and secure the whole thing with screws, but really, >80 switches are more than enough to ensure the cohesion of the assembly, so if a hole is missing, that's no big deal. I haven't revised the plate since the first revision of the keyboard, but it should still be fine (i.e. aligned switch holes). The reason I haven't updated it is that it's much more expensive than the aluminum PCB solution I found later. To assemble, you'll want to insert all the switches into the plate first, and only then solder the switches to the PCB. Edited January 10, 2023 by ScreamingAtTheRadio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 @ScreamingAtTheRadio A couple questions. I will describe where I am at now. so thanks to your advice I snapped in all the keys into the metal frame. Cool, I like that. then, I installed cable sockets, 1 on the keyboard pcb, one on the 130mx adapter, and I have a flat ribbon cable. At that point I had the feeling it was almost done, but of course - it is not. to do a quick test of it all working, I wanted to put the 130mx adapter into the atari - but the 130mx adapter doesn't fit, and it isn't even close. Even a dangerous amount of pressure will not place it in the socket. So, just wondering if any advice? Another question I have is the space bar. I have a donor metal bar. I think from github it states to 3d print costar stabilizer. So my next step is to purchase a 3d printer. But, it might be tempting to solder in all the keys whiel I wait, but that is that ok? I guess my quesiton is, does the installation of the costar stabilizer require that you haven't affixed the metal plate and keyboard yet, or can it be put in place after the fact? Because I dont have any idea how it attaches. I may have missed that part. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Mark2008 said: the 130mx adapter doesn't fit, and it isn't even close. Even a dangerous amount of pressure will not place it in the socket. My guess is that you had it fabricated in the standard 1.6mm thickness, which absolutely won't fit. You need them in 0.6 or 0.8mm, and then it'll fit very nicely. 1 hour ago, Mark2008 said: I have a donor metal bar. I think from github it states to 3d print costar stabilizer. So my next step is to purchase a 3d printer. But, it might be tempting to solder in all the keys whiel I wait, but that is that ok? I guess my quesiton is, does the installation of the costar stabilizer require that you haven't affixed the metal plate and keyboard yet, or can it be put in place after the fact? Because I dont have any idea how it attaches. I may have missed that part. The stabilizers clip onto the plate, not the PCB (for the version that you have, future versions will use PCB-screwed Duroc v2 stabilizers, but even those will have easy access through the plate as it has the required cutout space). So you're fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said: My guess is that you had it fabricated in the standard 1.6mm thickness, which absolutely won't fit. You need them in 0.6 or 0.8mm, and then it'll fit very nicely. The stabilizers clip onto the plate, not the PCB (for the version that you have, future versions will use PCB-screwed Duroc v2 stabilizers, but even those will have easy access through the plate as it has the required cutout space). So you're fine. Your guess is correct, I did that. Doh! Thanks! This is exciting, I think I'll be able to finish....just gotta work through the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Hi OP, any progress regarding the new revision of the PCB with multi-switch support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 hours ago, pseudografx said: Hi OP, any progress regarding the new revision of the PCB with multi-switch support? Yes, the PCB and the plate designs are done, waiting for the end of the new year holidays in China to get prototypes fabricated. Now working on stabilizer adapters, flexible connector PCB and Pi Pico adapter board (which is not needed for use in an Atari). The PCBs will be fabricated with the ghosting diodes, resistors and LEDs surface-mounted at the factory, so assembly will just be your connector of choice, the power LED and the switches themselves. PCB front and back: Plate (only front, the back is a plain aluminum surface): The yellow parts really will be the exposed aluminum, we'll see what that really looks like when the prototypes come in. My latest work is in this branch, including fab files: https://github.com/bleroy/3d-junkyard/tree/le-clavier-xe/Atari130MX 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenames99 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 hi, if you have any extras (pc board, plate, flex connector pcb, etc) I would be in for a set. thanks. and thank you for all your work on this project. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share Posted January 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, kenames99 said: if you have any extras (pc board, plate, flex connector pcb, etc) I would be in for a set. thanks. and thank you for all your work on this project. Yes, there will be opportunities to buy a set for the new design. I don't have any left of the previous designs that I'm ready to part with just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said: Yes, the PCB and the plate designs are done, waiting for the end of the new year holidays in China to get prototypes fabricated. Now working on stabilizer adapters, flexible connector PCB and Pi Pico adapter board (which is not needed for use in an Atari). The PCBs will be fabricated with the ghosting diodes, resistors and LEDs surface-mounted at the factory, so assembly will just be your connector of choice, the power LED and the switches themselves. That's a great news, fingers crossed! P.S.: Just one little thing, though it's not a big deal: I've noticed you use the wrong Atari-like font for the labels (I guess it's SF Atari Sylfaen). That one has many characters wrong. I suggest using "Harry Fatt". Edited January 22, 2023 by pseudografx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 8 hours ago, pseudografx said: Just one little thing, though it's not a big deal: I've noticed you use the wrong Atari-like font for the labels (I guess it's SF Atari Sylfaen). That one has many characters wrong. I suggest using "Harry Fatt". Thank you so much for the suggestion, this is perfect. I swapped the fonts, and you should see the updated results above in the post where I put the images. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted January 30, 2023 Author Share Posted January 30, 2023 The prototypes have been ordered. They include the new plates, for which I've ordered both aluminum PCBs from JLCPCB and a laser-cut plate from Ponoko (prices have dropped for laser-cut metal and I want to compare quality and costs). They also include the new optional USB adapters: Most of the remaining design work is going to be 3D modeling (Duroc v2 adapters for vintage keys, Fn key models, and a couple surprises I'm still hiding up my sleeve). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 Here's the latest SVG file for the plate, that I sent to Ponoko for fabrication in aluminum: https://github.com/bleroy/3d-junkyard/raw/le-clavier-xe/Atari130MX/DecentXE-plate-brd.svg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 While I'm waiting for the first prototype boards to arrive (should be here next week), here are some news. First, I added 3d models for Atari Fn keys without legend, with all Atari legends and also F1-12. I've tried a filament print for those, the general shape is fine but the legends don't come out great. I'm considering laser engraving for legends, we'll see, more experimentation coming. Those will be able to fit on both MX and low-profile switches. I'll also try a resin print when my resin printer has recovered from its latest spill (screen is dead). Also, I started the design of the stabilizer adapters. I've mentioned before how unsatisfied I was with how Costar stabilizers were working with the build. I've been working on adapters that fit on vintage Atari key caps and expose mounting holes for standard Duroc v2 stabilizers. For the moment, I have only the first design for the square style of Atari space bar, but I can already announce that it works brilliantly. I'm very happy with the result, proof of concept is done, and I'll move on to making similar adapters for shift keys and for circle-style caps. Here's a shot of the adapter with the stabilizer in place: Those will be very easy and cheap to print with filament, resin, or even to laser-cut. Also, now is probably as good a time as any to talk about next steps after the prototyping is done. I've spent a lot of time on this design over the past year or so (not quite alone, there's been fantastic contributions), and we're soon going to have great options for building drop-in replacement mechanical keyboards using both new and vintage caps for our beloved XEs. The designs are and will always remain open source so anybody can download the design files, build and mod them, do anything you want with them. I know there are also a lot of people in this community who can't or don't want to invest time in such a build and that's fine. For those of you in this category, or for those who want to build but don't want to source parts, or anyone in-between, I (and others) will offer partially or fully built keyboards. All options will be on the table and I'll make sure to have some sort of configurator so you can choose your options easily and in a non-confusing way. When this is ready to go, I'll announce it in a new pre-order thread. To be clear, I'm not trying to make a business out of this (there isn't one), just wanting to make my work accessible to whoever is interested with no barriers, and if it funds the (very expensive) hobby even a little bit, that's gravy. 9 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Mercury Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Thanks for bringing a project like this to life. I recently bought my first 8-bit Atari (130 XE) and I must say that the original keyboard feels a bit squishy for my taste (maybe it's because of the age of the machine). I am looking for a mechanical keyboard replacement for quite some time. Also thank you for considering to sell partially or fully built keyboards because I am this kind of a guy that is always happy that only the PCB is broken after a solder/desolder session and not that the whole flat was burnt down to the ground… Do you already know it it will be possible to get one sent to Germany? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 7 hours ago, Dr.Mercury said: Do you already know it it will be possible to get one sent to Germany? Sure. I'll be doing all the building and shipping myself, so I should be able to ship pretty much anywhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 ... and here's the adapter for the circle-style vintage space bar: The bad news is that there doesn't seem to be a way to do the same thing for shift keys as there isn't enough clearance for a standard 2U Durock to fit. We'll have to stick to Costar for the shift keys, which is fine as these weren't so much of a problem as the space bar stabilizers were. I will have to do some light mods to the latest plate design though as this is where the Costars go and I've standardized too early on Durock. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 Aluminum PCB plates just showed up, and they look glorious: In the same package, the USB adapters: The rest should be here in a few days. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Mercury Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Indeed the PCB look really cool. Too bad it's hidden after the keyboard is assembled and installed in the case :). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) Hello Dr. Mercury 12 minutes ago, Dr.Mercury said: Too bad it's hidden after the keyboard is assembled and installed in the case :). Unless you put it in a plexiglas case. Sincerely Mathy Edited February 13, 2023 by Mathy 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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