Circus Convoy

[RevEng]

On 3/25/2023 at 8:37 PM, John Stamos Mullet said:

The central argument here seems to be that David Crane and the Kitchen brothers turned up their noses at their work being referred to as, or equated with "homebrew".

If that's your summary, it looks like the central argument has gone completely over your head. I'm going to assume you're still arguing in good faith, and try to spell it out a little clearer...

 

If someone says they don't belong to category [X] because they have attribute [Y], it means they think that attribute [Y] excludes anyone from belonging to category [X]; that leaves category [X] with nobody possessing attribute [Y].

 

If I say that I'm not a Jaguar fan because, among other things, I bathe regularly and have manners, it speaks volumes about the negative beliefs I have about Jaguar fans. Saying that I was only talking about myself, and that I was just proud of my good hygiene and my disciplined brain - however true it might be - doesn't mean I didn't slight Jaguar fans.

 

If you want to give Audacity a pass because they're your childhood 2600 heros, then good for you. For the record, I give them a pass too. Not because there was no slight given, but because there was no slight intended - they just cluelessly revealed their insulting beliefs. Sorta like when you give your grandparent a pass after they reveal some horrible and outdated belief, and you just cringe a bit and hope they don't repeat it in public.

 

All of these arguments about rock bands and professional athletes have completely missed this point. Nobody took offence that Audacity didn't consider their game a homebrew. People may have disagreed about that, but it wasn't offensive. People took offense at the insulting inferences that Audacity made about homebrew in general.

[+Cafeman]

Made me think of this. 

 

 

[Razzie.P]

I got my copy today - Collector's Edition, #0672.     Which strikes me as odd now, because I see the website says "No more than 2000 of each will be sold, and if fewer than 2000 sell, at the end of two years sales are halted and no more of that Edition will ever be manufactured again."

 

It's been a bit more than 2 years, I think, so wonder if they decided they'd rather have the $$ instead.

 

 

 

The ROM doesn't seem to work on any of my flash carts, so that's a bummer, but I've been playing on emulation.   Not sure I like it enough to actually open it for "real hardware" play, so it'll likely stay sealed.  It's technically a very impressive game, but just isn't very fun for me.    For those who have opened it, does the included manual (assuming it has one) help describe items and such (like the Raiders of the Lost Ark manual) or is it just the same info on their website?

 

[Goochman]

Maybe they already had a certain amount manufactured hence selling of left over stock vs creating a new one after 2 years.

[+Cafeman]

672 copies sold? They should’ve made a knight rider game!

[MegaManFan]

3 hours ago, Cafeman said:

672 copies sold? They should’ve made a knight rider game!

At $99 I’m not shocked. I’m not saying it’s not an amazing game, but it’s an Atari 2600 game competing with modern console games that cost $70 (less if you’re patient or a bargain hunter). I think AtariAge hits the sweet spot for me because I don’t mind paying $50 for a complete in box high quality Atari 2600 or 7800 game. Asking double that is absurd. 

[Rogerpoco]

30 minutes ago, MegaManFan said:

At $99 I’m not shocked. I’m not saying it’s not an amazing game, but it’s an Atari 2600 game competing with modern console games that cost $70 (less if you’re patient or a bargain hunter). I think AtariAge hits the sweet spot for me because I don’t mind paying $50 for a complete in box high quality Atari 2600 or 7800 game. Asking double that is absurd. 

Ya, definitely "something happened", lol.

It IS a great game, and IMO, considering the one-off that it seems to be, well worth it even with other games being priced at whatever price they are-

My opinion isn't everyone's, but I AM an Activision fan, so for what it was, sure, was worth the price point.

(I actually missed on the highest end package, after having it confirmed, which REALLY pissed me off, but I still want to stick up for the game a bit).

 

AA stuff-

I have a few, not directly from AA, indirectly(uhh, obviously), and it's top notch stuff, for sure, made with "give a damn", w/o question. "High Quality" is almost not enough to say, for real, attention to detail seems to be there, 100%.

 

For hardcore homebrew collectors tho(which I'm not one of-I appreciate it, tho, a lot!), it DOES seem a tad steep to me, if someone really wants to spend their "regularly weekly money" on it.

So something like a CBS record club deal from the magazines in the 80's(lol, or "sorta". Recently heard that was kinda a scam, am glad I never sent in any of the 50 of them I filled out...).

If someone is a regular, hardcore buyer, they might should get the "best possible price", and others should possibly even pay more, to compensate.

 

Truly, if/when I ever purchased from AA, I'd be in the "pay more" bracket, but I still think that just seems like a fair thought process.

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Rogerpoco

[JagChris]

5 hours ago, MegaManFan said:

At $99 I’m not shocked. I’m not saying it’s not an amazing game, but it’s an Atari 2600 game competing with modern console games that cost $70 (less if you’re patient or a bargain hunter). I think AtariAge hits the sweet spot for me because I don’t mind paying $50 for a complete in box high quality Atari 2600 or 7800 game. Asking double that is absurd. 

Standard Edition is $60

[MegaManFan]

11 minutes ago, JagChris said:

Standard Edition is $60

That's definitely more reasonable, and if that included shipping, I'd consider it. The funny thing about their site is you can't even put it in your cart to buy without creating an account first. Who does that?

[JagChris]

1 hour ago, MegaManFan said:

That's definitely more reasonable, and if that included shipping, I'd consider it. The funny thing about their site is you can't even put it in your cart to buy without creating an account first. Who does that?

People who.want to.protect their roms from bootlegging. They bind your cart to your account.

[Razzie.P]

11 hours ago, Cafeman said:

672 copies sold? They should’ve made a knight rider game!

Someone should.  And maybe make a thread about it on AA.  It'd probably be quite popular and amusing.

 

 

2 hours ago, MegaManFan said:

That's definitely more reasonable, and if that included shipping, I'd consider it. The funny thing about their site is you can't even put it in your cart to buy without creating an account first. Who does that?

Shipping not included, sadly.  At least it wasn't with the version I bought.  You can't add to cart without an account, but if you happen to be looking for pricing, their site has a "pricing" tab that you can use.   That part annoyed me a bit too, when I first went there.

[+DrVenkman]

POKEY/HOKEY enhanced 7800 carts from the AtariAge Store are in the $60-plus range and don’t include shipping either. Given the size and quality of the game itself and the packaging, I had no issue with paying the asking price for the standard edition of Circus Convoy.

[MrBeefy]

14 hours ago, MegaManFan said:

At $99 I’m not shocked. I’m not saying it’s not an amazing game, but it’s an Atari 2600 game competing with modern console games that cost $70 (less if you’re patient or a bargain hunter). I think AtariAge hits the sweet spot for me because I don’t mind paying $50 for a complete in box high quality Atari 2600 or 7800 game. Asking double that is absurd. 

This is why you have goober like me who, for the most part, just buy homebrews that do not have a box. For $70 I can get LoZ Tears of the Kingdom on Switch.

 

I'm not surprised by the low number of sales or them not reaching 2000. Just use Rikki and Vikki as an example. Even when just $10 on Steam the creator didn't feel it worth the time to do more based on sales. 

[Zonie]

FWIW, I think this may have sold much better if sold on AA with the box or no box option, and more in line with AA prices. I do buy homebrews from time to time, (and a crapload last month) and I totally appreciate the attention to detail Albert, the programmers, and artists put into every product. They produce a truly remarkable "real" product. If I still had all of my original boxes from the 80's, I'd buy the boxes. I want them, but I have so many hobbies, that sadly the boxes would all just be in, well, a big box, not on display. The only one I ever bought the box for is Adventure II for the 5200. It sits with the four 2600 boxes I do still have. I display my consoles, but the carts are in little grey tweed Ikea Boxes, which are an upgrade from plastic totes on a shelf 8 feet up and those from cardboard VHS drawers as I outgrew the four of those I had. My entire collection fits in a black/brown Ikea Expedite cabinet that is 5 sections high with all the console boxes on top of that. It is a 9 foot tall monolith to 80s' gaming. Getting back to why I think they would have done better on AA, it's the implied "we're better than homebrewers" vibe they gave. It was distasteful and quite frankly, they are not better, and probably used some of the techniques the HB community has developed over the years.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Zonie

[MegaManFan]

1 minute ago, Zonie said:

Getting back to why I think they would have done better on AA, it's the implied "we're better than homebrewers" vibe they gave. It was distasteful and quite frankly, they are not better, and probably used some of the techniques the HB community has developed over the years.

I'm pretty sure that "binding your rom to your purchase" thing is part of that too. The thing is it's going to happen whether they put a custom header on each rom or not. I believe Cubicolor was the first ever example of that, and I don't think Rob Fulop did it for his ego or to trace who dumped it, but simply because he wanted every copy to be unique. It got dumped and everybody has played the same numbered rom for decades and last I heard Mr. Fulop didn't go after the owner of the cart, even though there's an owners list to match it up to.

[+Stephen]

On 8/10/2023 at 5:40 PM, MegaManFan said:

At $99 I’m not shocked. I’m not saying it’s not an amazing game, but it’s an Atari 2600 game competing with modern console games that cost $70 (less if you’re patient or a bargain hunter). I think AtariAge hits the sweet spot for me because I don’t mind paying $50 for a complete in box high quality Atari 2600 or 7800 game. Asking double that is absurd. 

But remember, this isn't some crap homebrew game, they are professionals!

[JagChris]

🕺

Edited August 12, 2023 by JagChris

[Thomas Jentzsch]

15 hours ago, MegaManFan said:

It got dumped and everybody has played the same numbered rom for decades and last I heard Mr. Fulop didn't go after the owner of the cart, even though there's an owners list to match it up to.

How do you know that the number did not get removed from the dump? It just takes two ROM dumps to find out the right spots.

[MegaManFan]

6 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

How do you know that the number did not get removed from the dump? It just takes two ROM dumps to find out the right spots.

I know because CPUWIZ made mine. 😉

[JagChris]

On 8/10/2023 at 9:06 AM, Razzie.P said:

I got my copy today -   For those who have opened it, does the included manual (assuming it has one) help describe items and such (like the Raiders of the Lost Ark manual) ?

 

Of course.

[Bakasama]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:30 PM, Stephen said:

But remember, this isn't some crap homebrew game, they are professionals!

I suppose they do have the privilege to name their price after the Hard Work they put into the games but $99 seems to be a steep price for a lot of people.

[Bill Loguidice]

5 minutes ago, Bakasama said:

I suppose they do have the privilege to name their price after the Hard Work they put into the games but $99 seems to be a steep price for a lot of people.

What fascinates me is that they still sold considerably more than most homebrews. It just goes to show how unrealistic the sales targets were. I always assumed that that's why we were never going to see the follow-up games as well. 

 

About the only way they could have beat the numbers they did would likely be releasing through Atari, but then they'd earn far less of course, so they'd still be better off doing what they did.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

59 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

What fascinates me is that they still sold considerably more than most homebrews.

Indeed, my own game Thrust+ Platinum sold about half as many copies in about 20 years.

[+sramirez2008]

3 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Indeed, my own game Thrust+ Platinum sold about half as many copies in about 20 years.

Still one of my top three 2600 HB games. Thank you for making this game.🙂

[JagChris]

8 hours ago, Bakasama said:

I suppose they do have the privilege to name their price after the Hard Work they put into the games but $99 seems to be a steep price for a lot of people.

 

8 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

What fascinates me is that they still sold considerably more than most homebrews. 

What fascinates me is after it was made clear the $99 is the collectors option with extra bells and whistles people are still regurgitating it as if its the only option.