The Atari 2600+ is live for preorders!

[chad5200]

A few questions about the Compatibility List for the games with a "Pass".

 

How extensively are the games that are listed a "Pass" being tested?

 

Does "Pass" mean that is is 100% working through and through with no glitches or anomalies and that all related controller functions behave correctly?

 

Or does "Pass" mean that the game starts up and seems good and a quick 10 seconds of gameplay looks OK?

 

Can someone describe the testing procedure that went into stamping a game as "Pass"?

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

28 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

A few questions about the Compatibility List for the games with a "Pass".

 

How extensively are the games that are listed a "Pass" being tested?

 

Does "Pass" mean that is is 100% working through and through with no glitches or anomalies and that all related controller functions behave correctly?

 

Or does "Pass" mean that the game starts up and seems good and a quick 10 seconds of gameplay looks OK?

 

Can someone describe the testing procedure that went into stamping a game as "Pass"?

Do you have any games in your mind which would not crash immediately? Or why are you asking?

[+littaum]

I can only speak for the games that I brought with me to PRGE 2023, but for those games (I brought a big box full and only had limited time), it was typically 30 seconds to a minute of game play to test out essential features (startup, play, control, general vibe).  I did not see a game that started up OK but then showed strangeness as time went on (other that Real Sports Boxing freaking out on startup, which was already known). It uses the Stella emulator for 2600, and ProSystem emulator for 7800, so I made the assumption that performance should be the same as those emulators.  I think the biggest test was the cart reader portion, as that seems to be the big bottleneck to game compatibility.   The only ones I saw that were a "Pass*" are games that require the currently non-supported keypad but boot up OK (like Codebreakers .. and I assume Star Raiders).

 

 

[Dr Karnov]

Is there a revised version of the 2600+ compatibility list?

[chad5200]

3 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Do you have any games in your mind which would not crash immediately? Or why are you asking?

Maybe it was the Medieval Madness game in the ZPH PRGE video that made me wonder.  That one booted but the paddles didn’t seem to work at all. May have been a different issue causing that, but it got me thinking. 
 

Do you think it’s safe to assume that if a game boots correctly then that means the game will play correctly from there on out?  

[Albert]

4 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

Maybe it was the Medieval Madness game in the ZPH PRGE video that made me wonder.  That one booted but the paddles didn’t seem to work at all. May have been a different issue causing that, but it got me thinking. 
 

Do you think it’s safe to assume that if a game boots correctly then that means the game will play correctly from there on out?  

Yes, given the nature of how Stella works, it identifies a game by an md5 checksum that is calculated against the binary.  If there's a match in Stella's internal database for that game, that means that the game was dumped correctly and Stella will know how to run it.  If a game boots in Stella, unless there's a known compatibility issue between the game and Stella, it should always run correctly.  I'm less familiar with the 7800 ProSystem emulator and if uses a similar method of fingerprinting binaries (and I've been too busy lately to keep track on specific discussions around that). 

 

 ..Al

[+Defender_2600]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

I'm less familiar with the 7800 ProSystem emulator and if uses a similar method of fingerprinting binaries (and I've been too busy lately to keep track on specific discussions around that).

 

Test Results under ProSystem 1.3e Core via RetroArch:

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

Yes, given the nature of how Stella works, it identifies a game by an md5 checksum that is calculated against the binary.  If there's a match in Stella's internal database for that game, that means that the game was dumped correctly and Stella will know how to run it.  If a game boots in Stella, unless there's a known compatibility issue between the game and Stella, it should always run correctly. 

The problem is, that the checksum used by Stella is based on a known dump. But the dumps the 2600+ creates for games like Medieval Mayhem are different. That's because the bankswitching hotspots return more or less random values when they are read. Which is the case here, since the hotspots are in the ROM address range. Which means that the checksum most likely differs from the known checksum. And then Stella does not use the game's properties. 

 

There might be a solution to the problem and the Stella team might want to help here. But so far Atari has not really given us much motivation for doing that. 

[Albert]

1 minute ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

The problem is, that the checksum used by Stella is based on a known dump. But the dumps the 2600+ creates for games like Medieval Mayhem are different. That's because the bankswitching hotspots return more or less random values when they are read. Which is the case here, since the hotspots are in the ROM address range. Which means that the checksum most likely differs from the known checksum. And then Stella does not use the game's properties.

I've run quite a few F8, F6, and F4 homebrew (and non-homebrew) games without issues, including Medieval Mayhem, so it seems that perhaps this isn't a problem?  

 

 ..Al

[Thomas Jentzsch]

7 minutes ago, Albert said:

I've run quite a few F8, F6, and F4 homebrew (and non-homebrew) games without issues, including Medieval Mayhem, so it seems that perhaps this isn't a problem? 

These games work (mostly) due to the quite reliable auto detection of Stella. However there are things which Stella cannot auto detect, like if a game needs phosphor to reduce flicker, is PAL-60 ... And sometimes Stella's autodetection fails. In case of MM there is a property defined for Stereo sound, which will be missing on the 2600+.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Thomas Jentzsch

[chad5200]

5 hours ago, Albert said:

I've run quite a few F8, F6, and F4 homebrew (and non-homebrew) games without issues, including Medieval Mayhem, so it seems that perhaps this isn't a problem?  

 

 ..Al

Here is James trying out a "working" homebrew game VROOM! on the 2600+ at PGRE.  Watch what happens starting at 1:13:54.  Paddle buttons are not working.  Are the paddles bad?  Or is the 2600+ not properly detecting the paddle buttons?

 

 

 

Also, listen to his comments about how loose the connector ports are.  Quite concerning!

 

 

[Albert]

15 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

Here is James trying out a "working" homebrew game VROOM! on the 2600+ at PGRE.  Watch what happens starting at 1:13:54.  Paddle buttons are not working.  Are the paddles bad?  Or is the 2600+ not properly detecting the paddle buttons?

It sounds like the version of Stella in the 2600+ doesn't have a match for VROOM!, which was released at last year's PRGE.  If this is the case, Stella would just assume the game uses joystick controllers, which would explain why the paddle buttons don't work.  I don't know how often new games are added to Stella's database, but @Thomas Jentzsch would know more about that.

17 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

Also, listen to his comments about how loose the connector ports are.  Quite concerning!

They seemed fine to me when I used them with the new joystick and paddle controllers, as well as original controllers.  I haven't unpacked my 2600+ that I brought home from the show just yet, so I'll play with this later once I've done so. 

 

 ..Al

[Saldo]

So what is the deal with the pre-orders?  Will the 2600+, the CX-40+, and the CX-30+ paddle controller bundle be available after the pre-order window, or are these all limited run items?  Is there an advantage to pre-ordering these items?  Is the price going to be more if these are available after the pre-order window?  Having been bit in the ass by the Amico fiasco I’m a little Leary of pre-orders and I would rather wait to purchase once these hit retail if that is going to happen.

[Albert]

8 minutes ago, Saldo said:

Will the 2600+, the CX-40+, and the CX-30+ paddle controller bundle be available after the pre-order window, or are these all limited run items?

They are not limited run items, they will be available after the pre-order window ends.

9 minutes ago, Saldo said:

Is there an advantage to pre-ordering these items?

Yes, those who pre-order them will get them first. 

9 minutes ago, Saldo said:

Is the price going to be more if these are available after the pre-order window?

I have no idea, but I imagine the prices for all these items will remain the same.

10 minutes ago, Saldo said:

Having been bit in the ass by the Amico fiasco I’m a little Leary of pre-orders and I would rather wait to purchase once these hit retail if that is going to happen.

If by retail you mean in a physical store, I don't know where they will be available in that regard, but they will continue to be available online at Atari.com and other online vendors (like Amazon).  I'll likely have some to sell in the AtariAge.com store as well. 

 

 ..Al

[Saldo]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions so fast!   I’m not concerned with being in line to get these firsts,  I can wait, lol.  Knowing that they will be available after the pre-order window through Atari, AtariAge, and Amazon and such will allow me to space out my purchases and not have to buy everything at once.  I see that the compatibility list looks to be very promising ( at least the Atari published games ) from the initial list.  Very few “fails” and a lot less “untested” due to the efforts of Ben, yourself, and some AtariAgers that brought games to PRGE.  Also, congrats on the whole Atari acquisition and becoming an official Atari employee.  All the years and time you have poured into this site to make it what it is today has paid off for you.  I can’t think of anyone better to be their historian (well maybe other than Curt..RIP).

[Thomas Jentzsch]

2 hours ago, Albert said:

It sounds like the version of Stella in the 2600+ doesn't have a match for VROOM!, which was released at last year's PRGE.  If this is the case, Stella would just assume the game uses joystick controllers, which would explain why the paddle buttons don't work.  I don't know how often new games are added to Stella's database, but @Thomas Jentzsch would know more about that.

Since VROOM! only uses the fire button of the paddles, Stella's auto detection must fail. Usually this is no big deal, since the user can fix that. But for doing that there must be UI access.

 

We update the properties when a new version of Stella is released, but only where we have the ROM. And only if we remember doing that.  

[Aloan]

I am hoping for Brazil to hop on the international list on the site as it´s one of the 3 largest Americas territory and there are thousands of fans here too.

[Aloan]

On 10/21/2023 at 7:54 PM, Video said:

Someone mentioned more stuff to prelaunch, while not specific to 2600+, there was a game that popped up when I looked for 2600 stuff.  Berzerk+ (sounds like berserk ve from a couple decades back) and circus convoy, which looked interesting, so when I got paddles the other day I also ordered those. Circus says its already on the way, looks dang cool, but also really complicated.

Besides Circus Convoy there is Casey´s Gold (developed by one of the former Activision guys) - a freight train game which is similar in quality, gameplay and fun! but we don´t hear about it for months! it seems it has not been released yet.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Aloan

[Ben from Plaion]

16 hours ago, chad5200 said:

Here is James trying out a "working" homebrew game VROOM! on the 2600+ at PGRE.  Watch what happens starting at 1:13:54.  Paddle buttons are not working.  Are the paddles bad?  Or is the 2600+ not properly detecting the paddle buttons?

 

 

 

Also, listen to his comments about how loose the connector ports are.  Quite concerning!

 

 

Paddle button press is exactly the same as original paddles. 

 

This is the first time anyone has mentioned loose connecter ports, in my experience they are neither tight or loose, feel just right.

[Ben from Plaion]

On 10/22/2023 at 4:10 PM, chad5200 said:

A few questions about the Compatibility List for the games with a "Pass".

 

How extensively are the games that are listed a "Pass" being tested?

 

Does "Pass" mean that is is 100% working through and through with no glitches or anomalies and that all related controller functions behave correctly?

 

Or does "Pass" mean that the game starts up and seems good and a quick 10 seconds of gameplay looks OK?

 

Can someone describe the testing procedure that went into stamping a game as "Pass"?

 

I've personally tested around 300 original 2600 and 7800 carts, indeed most are to insert the cart and see if it boots, then I would play them and  check up down left right and fire to see if the game was controllable, sometimes i'd like the game and indulge in playing it for a bit.

 

There is probably some mistakes I've made where a game boots and I've passed it cause it boots and yet it shouldn't be a pass because although the games boots it uses the keypad and isn't actually playable because the keypad isn't compatible. But that is a tiny proportion of games in the grand scheme of things. I will note this on the next update to the compatibility list.

 

Since the original compatibility list was published we have tested many games that were on the list as 'untested' and the vast majority do play fine. I recently gave a heads up with a list of untested to pass on this in this very thread.

 

Give me a couple of days and we will update the official compatibility list. It's a good news story, not perfect, but certainly we are getting results in the right direction.

[Video]

I assume "tested" means "we plugged it in and it came on" not "we did in depth testing"

 

I doubt the people testing know what an Atari game is supposed to look like, certainly not all of them, so they likely won't know if sprites are wrong. But I saw a light gun game on there, and due to latency those won't work on modern tv, even if it plugs in and comes on.

 

Does 2600+ have RF plugs? I just assumed HDMI only (which I'm fine with) so didn't look for alternative hookups.

[Video]

2 hours ago, Aloan said:

Besides Circus Convoy there is Casey´s Gold (developed by one of the former Activision guys) - a freight train game which is similar in quality, gameplay and fun! but we don´t hear about it for months! it seems it has not been released yet.

Wow, that's really cool. Ill see if I can find it.

 

I really need to put a big order in to Al.

[+D Train]

@Video casey's gold is *not* out yet.  it's coming out through Audacity Games and they are taking their time.  It's def coming though.

[T.A.P.]

For any one that got to try them, do the new joysticks feel like the old ones? Any differences?

[+littaum]

33 minutes ago, T.A.P. said:

For any one that got to try them, do the new joysticks feel like the old ones? Any differences?

They felt good and responsive - certainly a lot better than some of the older Atari joysticks you may come across.