THE400 Mini

[Lord Thag]

For me, a device like this does a few things:

• Allows me to play multiplayer games with friends on the big flatscreen in the living room. Four player MULE and Castle Crisis etc
• Allows easy HDMI connection for modern TVs.
• Comes in a nice, Atari style case.

I have the c64 maxi version of this and once the firmware was developed, it's a pretty powerful setup, emulation non-withstanding. Will it replace my daily drive 800xl and 130XE? Nope. But it will allow an easier way to share the games with friends on a modern TV instead of everyone hunched over a commodore CRT in the (admittedly cramped) game room.

[Bill Loguidice]

2 hours ago, Mercenary said:

 
I didn't make any assumptions (I said "I guess maybe", which means it's a possibility, rather than it being true or certain). What you somewhat rudely regarded as assuming and complaining, I regard as constructive criticism.   

I'm aware that it can play 130XE games. I'd already mentioned, as an example of my point, that it can play 5200 games. You regard the look as irrelevant. However, not basing its looks on the 800XL is a missed opportunity, as it'd make more sense from a sales point of view to base the looks on the most popular of the Atari 8-bit line. Not to mention that the 800XL is generally regarded to be a more handsome computer. As a side note,  I've even seen quite a few comments from people on social media / YouTube that aren't interested in adding this mini 400 to their collection due to them considering it to be ugly and / or having no affiliation with the 400 (from an aesthetics point of view). Despite that I've owned / own an 800XL and 130XE, I share their opinion. 

Of course, some others see it differently. 

I, on the other hand, maintain that you have four major designs to choose from (400/800, Xl, XE, XEGS), and it's just as valid to choose the 400 based on the reasons I gave before than it is any other design, and arguably moreso. Can you give a reason why it will affect sales negatively? I'm genuinely asking because I can't see any scenario where choosing any other design would notably lose/gain sales, and again, there are certain advantages to choosing the 400. 

I'm also curious...  The two best-looking Atari 8-bit computers are generally considered to be the 800 and 1200XL. Do you generally agree with that or do you also think the 800XL, as the "best seller," should trump all other considerations? Certainly, they chose the two iconic designs for the C-64 (breadbin) and Amiga (500) products, which also happened to be the two best-selling models (not sure if the C-64c outsold the breadbin, though, so that's just my guess). Is there really an equivalent on the Atari 8-bit that iconically defines the platform? I'm not sure there is outside of the initial two models. Again, there were four major popular designs.

 

Edited January 18 by Bill Loguidice

[+swlovinist]

Being able to hookup a USB keyboard will address most of the issues mentioned here.   While I agree that the 800xl is the best looking, I am totally fine with the 400 mini design choice as it will probably play the majority of games from the 8 bit computer line including aftermarket and homebrew releases.   

[Lord Thag]

14 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I, on the other hand, maintain that you have four major designs to choose from (400/800, Xl, XE, XEGS), and it's just as valid to choose the 400 based on the reasons I gave before than it is any other design, and arguably moreso. Can you give a reason why it will affect sales negatively? I'm genuinely asking because I can't see any scenario where choosing any other design would notably lose/gain sales, and again, there are certain advantages to choosing the 400. 

I'm also curious...  The two best-looking Atari 8-bit computers are generally considered to be the 800 and 1200XL. Do you generally agree with that or do you also think the 800XL, as the "best seller," should trump all other considerations? Certainly, they chose the two iconic designs for the C-64 (breadbin) and Amiga (500) products, which also happened to be the two best-selling models (not sure if the C-64c outsold the breadbin, though, so that's just my guess). Is there really an equivalent on the Atari 8-bit that iconically defines the platform? I'm not sure there is outside of the initial two models. Again, there were four major popular designs.

 

Not the person you were responding to, but I think objectively, the 400 is the least popular of the Atari computers and the consensus seems to be that it's the least pretty of the bunch. Seems an odd choice for the case for this device to me, but I don't think it will affect sales much. Most folks will just want it to do what it's designed to do: Play A8 games on a modern TV.

 

Totally anecdotal evidence, but I would say either the 800 or the 800xl/1200xl are the most recognizable 'look' for the line as you said. I'd have gone with either of those lines personally.

[donjn]

2 hours ago, Mercenary said:

Not to mention that the 800XL is generally regarded to be a more handsome computer.

100% opinion and pure general speculation.

[Beeblebrox]

17 minutes ago, swlovinist said:

... as it will probably play the majority of games from the 8 bit computer line including aftermarket and homebrew releases.   

I think this is the main thing we are looking to get clarification on re homebrew. Fingers crossed 1MB and banked ram carts, (Spaceharrier, Atariblast, Flob, Onescape., etc etc), are fully supported.

 

If I can load and play my 3 x atr image The Brundles game and can use a mouse, (best way to play the latter), then that is a great bonus.

[Mercenary]

1 hour ago, donjn said:

100% opinion and pure general speculation.

It's my observation. I've observed that generally, going on comments and what's said, people like the look of the 800XL the most.  That's not speculation on my part whatsoever.

And it's not my opinion. My opinion is the 130XE is the best looking of the 8-bit Atari computers.

Edited January 18 by Mercenary

[Mercenary]

2 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I, on the other hand, maintain that you have four major designs to choose from (400/800, Xl, XE, XEGS), and it's just as valid to choose the 400 based on the reasons I gave before than it is any other design, and arguably moreso. Can you give a reason why it will affect sales negatively? I'm genuinely asking because I can't see any scenario where choosing any other design would notably lose/gain sales, and again, there are certain advantages to choosing the 400. 

I'm also curious...  The two best-looking Atari 8-bit computers are generally considered to be the 800 and 1200XL. Do you generally agree with that or do you also think the 800XL, as the "best seller," should trump all other considerations? Certainly, they chose the two iconic designs for the C-64 (breadbin) and Amiga (500) products, which also happened to be the two best-selling models (not sure if the C-64c outsold the breadbin, though, so that's just my guess). Is there really an equivalent on the Atari 8-bit that iconically defines the platform? I'm not sure there is outside of the initial two models. Again, there were four major popular designs.

 

Generally, the more recognisable something is, the more likely it sells, and if more people have nostalgia towards the 800XL, I suspect they'd more likely go for a mini replica of that computer. It might not make that much difference to sales overall though. Though it makes little sense to go for a miniature of a less popular Atari. 

I agree that the best looking is considered to the 800XL. I don't personally see it the same way. For me, the Atari 130XE is the best looking of the Atari 8-bits. Do I think they should've based the miniature on that? No, as the XL is the most recognisable / and sold the most. That just makes the most sense. 

 

[donjn]

12 minutes ago, Mercenary said:

It's my observation. I've observed that generally, going on comments and what's said, people like the look of the 800XL the most.  That's not speculation on my part whatsoever.

And it's not my opinion. My opinion is the 130XE is the best looking of the 8-bit Atari computers.

Generally regarded by who? I think often people mistake popular or best with "handsome".
You would need to construct a poll with a descent sample size regarding the best looking Atari 8-bit computers.
A few comments on this forum (a small percentage of the industry, and a very dedicated, hardcore group) would be insufficient for it not to be your opinion.

 

Edited January 18 by donjn

[Bill Loguidice]

4 minutes ago, Mercenary said:

It's my observation. I've observed that generally, going on comments and what's said, people like the look of the 800XL the most.  That's not speculation on my part whatsoever.

And it's not my opinion. My opinion is the 130XE is the best looking of the 8-bit Atari computers.

Again, I'd say my observation over the years has been the 800 and 1200XL are routinely ranked at the top of best-looking Atari 8-bits (and probably among the top 25 of best-looking computers in general; wasn't there a thread on AtariAge at some point?), but it really doesn't matter. Your comment about the 130XE is the perfect example of how it's an impossible assignment picking the "best" for something like this regardless as I bet many people, myself included, rank the 130XE rather low on the list in terms of looks (and certainly keyboard functionality on many of the versions of the 130XE). 

With all of that in mind, I really haven't seen many comments indicating someone won't buy it based on how it looks. That's what ultimately matters.

For my money, I'd love to see a Maxi version take on the looks of either the 800 or 1200XL, as those are easily my two favorites of the Atari 8-bits I own and have owned. If they choose another XL or XE (though hopefully not the XEGS as unique looking as it is), it certainly wouldn't stop me from getting it. The only disaster would be doing a 400 Maxi. I doubt very many people want that type of functional keyboard. Based on my discussions with some of the principals behind this project (who are clearly passionate about the platform), that would fortunately be extremely unlikely.

[zzip]

I don't know if there's a consensus on best-looking Atari-8,  but I do sense the most divisive designs were the Atari 400 and XEGS.

[Bill Loguidice]

1 minute ago, zzip said:

I don't know if there's a consensus on best-looking Atari-8,  but I do sense the most divisive designs were the Atari 400 and XEGS.

I'd say the 400 only because of the keyboard. The 800 is ranked quite high and the 400 is more or less the same aesthetic. It's at least distinctive, where I can see the argument being made the XL and XE's are just a bit more generic (especially the latter, which mirrored the ST design language). The XEGS is the epitome of 80s time and place with its pastel buttons and plasticky build. 

[donjn]

3 minutes ago, zzip said:

I don't know if there's a consensus on best-looking Atari-8,  but I do sense the most divisive designs were the Atari 400 and XEGS.

Yeah its hard, a simple Google search usually leads to best.

Its obvious the 800XL is the king in many ways.
I just cant stand it when people talk about an opinion and say "most people" agree on how something looks, with nothing to back it up.

 

Its like saying most people agree the Yankees have the best uniforms. Who are these people?

 

[zzip]

1 minute ago, Bill Loguidice said:

regardless as I bet many people, myself included, rank the 130XE rather low on the list in terms of looks (and certainly keyboard functionality on many of the versions of the 130XE). 

I'd say the cheap feel of the XEs is the turn-off.  I'd have no issue with the looks if they were built at least as well as the ST. 

 

4 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

For my money, I'd love to see a Maxi version take on the looks of either the 800 or 1200XL

Are the Maxi's truly full-size?  If so, I'm not sure they'd make something as large as the Atari 800.   I could see them choosing something compact like the 600XL

[Mercenary]

23 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Again, I'd say my observation over the years has been the 800 and 1200XL are routinely ranked at the top of best-looking Atari 8-bits (and probably among the top 25 of best-looking computers in general; wasn't there a thread on AtariAge at some point?), but it really doesn't matter. Your comment about the 130XE is the perfect example of how it's an impossible assignment picking the "best" for something like this regardless as I bet many people, myself included, rank the 130XE rather low on the list in terms of looks (and certainly keyboard functionality on many of the versions of the 130XE). 

With all of that in mind, I really haven't seen many comments indicating someone won't buy it based on how it looks. That's what ultimately matters.

For my money, I'd love to see a Maxi version take on the looks of either the 800 or 1200XL, as those are easily my two favorites of the Atari 8-bits I own and have owned. If they choose another XL or XE (though hopefully not the XEGS as unique looking as it is), it certainly wouldn't stop me from getting it. The only disaster would be doing a 400 Maxi. I doubt very many people want that type of functional keyboard. Based on my discussions with some of the principals behind this project (who are clearly passionate about the platform), that would fortunately be extremely unlikely.

 I'd already replied and addressed your comment. You wouldn't have read it when you replied to me as it wasn't showing yet. It's above your last reply now.

My comment needed approval for some reason (not sure why). 

 

Edited January 18 by Mercenary

[doctorclu]

3 minutes ago, zzip said:

I'd say the cheap feel of the XEs is the turn-off.  I'd have no issue with the looks if they were built at least as well as the ST. 

 

Are the Maxi's truly full-size?  If so, I'm not sure they'd make something as large as the Atari 800.   I could see them choosing something compact like the 600XL

A compact 600XL?  Could get behind that.

 

Soooo... how it the pack in joystick for this thing?  That will be my ongoing question about this after having like five modern day joysticks fail between the Flashback 2 line, and other replacement joysticks I picked up at video game stores.  

 

We wanna play games, and we don't want to be delicate about it.  Don't cheap out on the joysticks. 

[Bill Loguidice]

7 minutes ago, zzip said:

Are the Maxi's truly full-size?  If so, I'm not sure they'd make something as large as the Atari 800.   I could see them choosing something compact like the 600XL

That is definitely a consideration. No doubt the 600XL would make the best choice if they wanted to save on shell size. But yes, the C-64 Maxi is pretty much a breadbin replica and of similar dimensions (along those lines it will be interesting to see if we get a full-size Amiga 500 Maxi, as that would be BIG).

Want to see hideous? How about one of my Atari 400's (that I no longer own) on the right from an article I wrote back in 2008:



And there's this line:



And this one:



I didn't pull the 1200XL comment out of thin air back then either.

Edited January 18 by Bill Loguidice

[Mercenary]

18 minutes ago, donjn said:

Generally regarded by who? I think often people mistake popular or best with "handsome".
You would need to construct a poll with a descent sample size regarding the best looking Atari 8-bit computers.
A few comments on this forum (a small percentage of the industry, and a very dedicated, hardcore group) would be insufficient for it not to be your opinion.

 

By people who are into the Atari 8-bit computers. Most comments on this subject, from my observations, tend to like the look of the 800XL the most.

Again, that's not my opinion. It's my observation. 

 

Edited January 18 by Mercenary

[donjn]

1 minute ago, Mercenary said:

By people who are into the Atari 8-bit computers. Most comments on this subject, from my observations, tend to like the look of the 800XL the most.

Again, that's not my opinion. It's my observation. 

 

I get what you are saying.

The 1200XL is a beauty too.

[Goochman]

As I stated earlier, how would the 800XL case look with 4 joystick ports?  I think the 400 as a mini with a 4 port design is good leaving the Max800 again with 4 joystick port design as the big brother.

 

[Mercenary]

22 minutes ago, donjn said:

Yeah its hard, a simple Google search usually leads to best.

Its obvious the 800XL is the king in many ways.
I just cant stand it when people talk about an opinion and say "most people" agree on how something looks, with nothing to back it up.

I didn't say "most people". I said going on my observations, it's generally the 800XL that people (who comment on this subject) seem to like the most.

I don't think the fact that the Atari XL was the biggest Atari 8-bit seller equates to "nothing to back it up". Nostalgia is a huge factor in this hobby.

Edited January 18 by Mercenary

[donjn]

12 minutes ago, Mercenary said:

I didn't say "most people". I said going on my observations, it's generally the 800XL that people (who comment on this subject) seem to like the most.

I don't think the fact that the Atari XL was the biggest Atari 8-bit seller equates to "nothing to back it up". Nostalgia is a huge factor in this hobby.

That's what you said...later.

Here is what you said originally and what I was commenting on:

 

Quote

Not to mention that the 800XL is generally regarded to be a more handsome computer.

 

Was it the best Atari 8-bit? Most likely? Was it the most popular? Yes. But most handsome? Up for debate.

 

[Mercenary]

5 minutes ago, donjn said:

That's what you said...later.

Here is what you said originally and what I was commenting on:

 

 

Was it the best Atari 8-bit? Most likely? Was it the most popular? Yes. But most handsome? Up for debate.

 

 

5 minutes ago, donjn said:

That's what you said...later.

Here is what you said originally and what I was commenting on:

 

 

Was it the best Atari 8-bit? Most likely? Was it the most popular? Yes. But most handsome? Up for debate.

 

You quoted "most people", I didn't say that. 

Generally, when the subject comes up and people comment on it, it's the 800XL that gets the most praise in terms of looks. That's what I've observed, regardless of my opinion, which is that it's not the best looking. What actually is is the best looking is totally subjective. I've not argued that. 

Edited January 18 by Mercenary

[zzip]

58 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I'd say the 400 only because of the keyboard. The 800 is ranked quite high and the 400 is more or less the same aesthetic.

It might seem so, but the 800 resembles an ordinary typewriter from the era while the 400 looks like some kind of retro sci-fi creation.   If there was a 70s B-movie featuring aliens in sparkly disco garb coming to Earth, surely their spaceship would be operated by something resembling the 400!

 

 

"After extensive research, we have identified the market segment most likely to purchase the new Atari 400"

  -previously unearthed Atari memo (probably)       

[Geister]

I've had one of every Atari computer from the 400 through the 130XE, and I've disliked the XE the most because it was a Trameil design.  however, I've enjoyed using all of them including the 130XE. I'm most fond of the 400 because it was my first real computer (I don't include the consoles I bought as computers). 

I think this gives them  the option to produce and sell multiple versions of the reproduct with only needing to develop the case and use the same hardware and software over and over ( they could update the packed in software to include period or region specific software).  If they do a maxi, I'd prefer a 600XL because it takes up the least space of all 8-bit ataris and they could put 4 USB ports in the back.  

If they really want my money, they should build a 1450XLD with a parallel bus and slots.😜