AR: City - FlashCart / Stage 2

[Wrathchild]

Very cool - I would be interested in buying one - I would have 1 expectation though and that would be the ability to unload and load my char off the flashcart.  Having the flashcart means I can run other stuff so Id hate to build a great AR character and not have the ability to save it off.  I hope Im not asking too much here.

Had an idea on this one, when booting up the machine I could detect if 'SELECT' is being held down. If so, a menu could be provided that allows the import and export of a character to and from disk/cart.

[carmel_andrews]

I pretty sure that i am correct in what i said that BBSB was also released on disk, as I am sure thst I did see one when I bought by tape original, also on the scrolling advert that's displayed during the loading of the tape version of many USG games it is started that BBSB was released (is available) on tape and disk

 

Even the old sillica shop catalog had it listed on tape, disk and rom (the text only version) although, i accept that the rom version was an import (I also remember seeing the cartridge box for the 5200 version, when i used to go to sillica shop when they first opened in TCR (tottenham court road)

Although US Gold announced the game on disk as well, it only made it to tape on the Atari. What you saw is probably the C64 version.

 

The US Gold scrolling adverts also stated Summer Games II was available so draw your conclusions... Never trust printed matter either, many games in the Silica Shop catalog were never released in the end.

 

BTW, does anybody have the rare Dutch release of Bounty Bob Strikes Back! by Aackosoft?

 

Edit... Sorry for hijacking the thread...

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

862620[/snapback]

 

 

 

Was that the special 128k version that 'wrathchild' was going on about, or was it a re-release

[danwinslow]

I am comfortable with Wrath charging for this work. If I buy one of these, it will be that work I will be paying for, not really the ability to obtain the game, which I can do any number of other ways. He is merely repackaging it in a more convenient way. Yes, it will need to be changed, but it isn't being hacked to change its nature at all, or to represent it as the sole creation of Wrathchild. Its being hacked to fit inside a new medium. I also don't agree with the sentiment 'if you aren't doing it for free and for love then don't do it'. Some things are harder than others. Some things take serious time and effort. If there is no possible payback then some things just won't get done. If he were looking to make some kind of substantial profit, then I might agree with you, but unless he's nuts he knows that at best he will get some compensation for time and effort, but no real profit.

 

And the game itself should probably be considered public domain at this point. There is no real market to lose, its widely available for free, and the production company no longer exists. PP himself liekly does not have the rights to it in any case.

[densonj]

I don't have a problem with this either. I believe PP does have the rights to AR. Remember when they were trying to do the AR online thing a few years ago? He has the rights. I also think it's a great idea to try to contact him about the project. However, I don't think it's wrong to charge a fee for a service rendered. That's all Wrathchild is doing. If he's putting it on Steve's flashcart, then Steve has a right to something as well. If it wasn't for the folks who still do some kind of development these days, there would be nothing interesting going on in the old A8 community. Now, that would truly be sad for those of us who love this stuff!

[www.atarimania.com]

Was that the special 128k version that 'wrathchild' was going on about, or was it a re-release

What do you mean? The Aackosoft release was official but it was only sold in the Netherlands. It's just VERY tough to find...

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

[danwinslow]

AR online? Now THAT is interesting. Any further info or linkage?

[Goochman]

Very cool - I would be interested in buying one - I would have 1 expectation though and that would be the ability to unload and load my char off the flashcart.  Having the flashcart means I can run other stuff so Id hate to build a great AR character and not have the ability to save it off.  I hope Im not asking too much here.

Had an idea on this one, when booting up the machine I could detect if 'SELECT' is being held down. If so, a menu could be provided that allows the import and export of a character to and from disk/cart.

862621[/snapback]

 

Excellent - As I thought about this more it would really need to be there since AR is an unforgiving game where even highly experienced characters can meet quick and untimely deaths - character backup was def a must for this game!

[densonj]

AR online? Now THAT is interesting. Any further info or linkage?

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There are a number of sites that still mention it. Unfortunately, the "www.alternatereality.com" site that PP and GG originally put up is no more. They had some pretty grand plans for a little while but it all fizzled out.

 

Try here: http://kang.aroo.tv/ar/

[Wrathchild]

Excellent - As I thought about this more it would really need to be there since AR is an unforgiving game where even highly experienced characters can meet quick and untimely deaths - character backup was def a must for this game!

True, in that case it may also be worthwhile adding a 'copy character from slot X to Y within the flash-mem' - instant resurrection. Though purists may disagree with the prinicple of this.

Regards,

Mark

[danwinslow]

Hmm. Interesting. Well, an online game is a very hard thing to do.

 

 

 

 

Anybody want to help do one?

[+rdemming]

BTW, does anybody have the rare Dutch release of Bounty Bob Strikes Back! by Aackosoft?

 

Yes, I bought it on tape here in The Netherlands when I was a child. Later I converted the tape version to disk (not an .exe but a bootdisk with the original tape loader screen. I just replaced the tape loading code with disk sector loading code.)

I've attached it to this message. Oh, yes, it runs on a standard 64K machine.

 

Robert

 

 

P.S. When I tried to attach the .atr file I got an error saying: "Upload failed. You are not permitted to upload a file with that file extension.". Since when is that? Tried it as a .zip file now.

bbsb.zip

[Xebec's Demise]

True, in that case it may also be worthwhile adding a 'copy character from slot X to Y within the flash-mem' - instant resurrection. Though purists may disagree with the prinicple of this.

Regards,

Mark

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I must be a purist then. The cartridge could make cheating more difficult and that is better for the game overall.

 

Don't add character backups. If you can always backup your character, then you never lose. Never losing is no fun.

 

The greater the challenge, the greater the rewards.

Edited May 30, 2005 by Xebec's Demise

[Gunstar]

True, in that case it may also be worthwhile adding a 'copy character from slot X to Y within the flash-mem' - instant resurrection. Though purists may disagree with the prinicple of this.

Regards,

Mark

862767[/snapback]

 

I must be a purist then. The cartridge could make cheating more difficult and that is better for the game overall.

 

Don't add character backups. If you can always backup your character, then you never lose. Never losing is no fun.

 

The greater the challenge, the greater the rewards.

863963[/snapback]

I agree with thsi to some degree. At least I think the cartridge shouldn't allow direct flash back-up, but it would be nice to be able to still use a disk drive to save a character too, and then, if people want, they could still make a back-up of their character disk using the AR disk side that had the disk back-up program on it another copier progam or the character editors floating around the net for cheating S.O.B's. What I don't agree with is that backing up your character takes all the fun out of it as you never lose. Well, I got news for you; I have two characters stuck at level 6 that I've had for YEARS, and even with backing up the characters I have still to get them beyond level 6 as they keep getting killed off on me before I can reach level 7. The game can be VERY hard and unforgiving, even with back-ups and it's never taken the fun out of it for me. but a flash back-up would make backing up to quick and easy. But whatever...I have some characters that I've built up and managed to keep alive that I've never backed up and some that have died off forever becuase I didn't back them up. At the same time, I have characters that have died off a hundred times and are only in existance due to their backups, and I don't want to lose them permanently, it's nice to know that they still have a chance of going farther someday...

 

I do consider myself a purist, but in a different sense I guess; I LIKE to play the games with floppy disks and my disk drives, slow or not, it's all part of the nostalgia for me, and I'm not sure if I'd ever use a flash version or not. I'm still thinking about it. I DO know that I COULD play AR on emulators on my PC or Dreamcast or use the disk images with my SIO2PC for much faster loading of the game, but I still prefer using real floppies in my real drives. But I have four disk drives and minimal swapping becuase of it, and I doubt there are a whole lot of current users out there that have more than one or two drives, if any at all do to flashcarts, harddrive kits and the SIO2PC solution. So I could see them being sick of lots of disk swapping. My only downside is that "The City" only recognizes 2 of my 4 disk drives anyway, so I only get to use all four drives with "The Dungeon."

[Heaven/TQA]

well... i would prefer to have this option to save to flash... you know...you can even play it in 800win and make a savestate instead of charakter saving... so what?

[carmel_andrews]

The Dutxch/Aacksoft version of BBSB, is that any different to the big5/USG deal, or is it the same game under a different labe

 

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BTW, does anybody have the rare Dutch release of Bounty Bob Strikes Back! by Aackosoft?

 

Yes, I bought it on tape here in The Netherlands when I was a child. Later I converted the tape version to disk (not an .exe but a bootdisk with the original tape loader screen. I just replaced the tape loading code with disk sector loading code.)

I've attached it to this message. Oh, yes, it runs on a standard 64K machine.

 

Robert

 

 

P.S. When I tried to attach the .atr file I got an error saying: "Upload failed. You are not permitted to upload a file with that file extension.". Since when is that? Tried it as a .zip file now.

863728[/snapback]

[Xebec's Demise]

It would just be all the more special and appreciated if the cart version chars could not be backed up.

 

When another player wanted to show you his character, he could bring over the AR cart and plug it into your machine and you could both appreciate the character because it would be unlikely that anyone would go to the trouble of cheating to get a backed up character on and off of the cart. Most people that play these games nowadays know that there is no point and would not waste their time.

 

But if it was as easy as making a backup to disk, then many would not only be tempted to do so, but they would.

 

I have played many games in my time, and I know that a more challenging game is always a more appreciated game.

 

Likewise, if the AR cart version did not allow char back-ups, then characters created on the cart would end up much more respected and appreciated than otherwise and people would end up playing it more and for longer periods of time, finding it much more difficult and challenging; but at the same time much more rewarding in the long run.

 

Edited May 31, 2005 by Xebec's Demise

[densonj]

I don't have a problem with character back-ups. I think if this AR cartridge project is succesful that the best option would be to have the ability to save your character to flash OR disk at the players choice. That would hopefully please everyone. Yes, the original games allowed back-ups of character disks but if everyone remembers, the instructions actually recommended it also.

[Xebec's Demise]

To be clear, there is a difference between making a backup of a character and saving a character.

 

I am completely for the ability to save a character to the cartridge.

 

What I think the cartridge could do better than the original disk game is make cheating more difficult, including discouraging people from making endless numbers of character backups.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Xebec's Demise

[Goochman]

I would only consider something 'cheating' is there were some kind of competition on this - Since there is no competition then why not allow folks the pleasure of experiencing all of AR without having to start from scratch constantly? You will lose alot of the audience if they cannot continue from their last save point.

 

I spent 4 days on my lvl 4 character for the HSC competition - I was happy to enjoy this game but also po'd that I would have to start all over again (which took 8 tries to make it that long).

 

Anyhow,

My $0.02

[analmux]

But, if you run AR on diskdrives (as usual) can't you make backups then??? If so, then it doesn't matter if you can backup on the cartridge. If not, then it would indeed be cheating.

[densonj]

But, if you run AR on diskdrives (as usual) can't you make backups then??? If so, then it doesn't matter if you can backup on the cartridge. If not, then it would indeed be cheating.

865316[/snapback]

 

Yes, you can. It's a matter of preference whether one does or not. I used to back-up my character disk when I played AR regularly. It's a bit tedious, but worth it when you've worked very hard developing a character in the game. The first time I ran into one of the death-traps in the City I was very glad that I had backed up my character. They were not supposed to exist but if you landed in one, game-over.

[Wrathchild]

The first time I ran into one of the death-traps in the City I was very glad that I had backed up my character. They were not supposed to exist but if you landed in one, game-over.

With regards to these, would it be worthwhile fixing these (and any other) known issues?

 

Regards,

Mark

 

PS: no progress this week as too busy@work - resuming next Thursday (9th)

[densonj]

The first time I ran into one of the death-traps in the City I was very glad that I had backed up my character. They were not supposed to exist but if you landed in one, game-over.

With regards to these, would it be worthwhile fixing these (and any other) known issues?

 

Regards,

Mark

 

PS: no progress this week as too busy@work - resuming next Thursday (9th)

865388[/snapback]

 

Oh, I don't know. There will probably be mixed feelings about something like that. What would you do? Close them off entirely or make them "exitable"?

[Wrathchild]

What would you do? Close them off entirely or make them "exitable"?

From the FAQ it sounds like they should be closed off, so probably that.

[Xebec's Demise]

I would not change the Death Traps. Even though they were originally unintended, they add an extra bit of danger and variety to the game. There have been many stories, legends and warnings among players and even in the playguides about these fatal traps. They have become a part of the game and game legend. To remove them now would be to remove a part of the game.

 

If you change anything, I would be more interested in seeing a door placed to access the additional two guilds near the Arena, that are normally blocked off. This does not change the game, but instead improves upon it, by adding access to two additional guilds.

 

What would be even more incredible is if you could figure a way out that we could enter into all the establishments that have been "Closed by order of The Palace!" That would draw a huge interest to the AR cartridge version. These establishments seem to load up, but then automatically boot you out - just as you have experienced with the cartridge programming with a character that does not have disk 2 side 1 establishment data stored. It's probably something as simple. And maybe it would not be too difficult to add the last two Weapons Trainers into the game since the code already exists, but not a location - actually, I have wondered if these two Weapons Trainers may have been intended to be located where the Death Traps are, but somehow got messed up.

 

Name                          Location

 House of Ill-Repute        42E, 35N
 Acrinimirils Gate          31E, 36N
 Floating Gate              35E, 27N
 Maximum Casino             39E, 36N
 Jacks Fitness Academy      54E, 4N

 Davids Weapons Trainers    23E, 47N
 Armstrong Builders         25E, 50N
 Apollo Trainers            26E, 46N


The last three trainers are not normally availible in the game.


 Grogs Weapons Trainers     Not on the map
 Flash Weapons Trainers     Not on the map


The above two trainers are only found by dumping data from the original disks.

Edited June 1, 2005 by Xebec's Demise