Xebec's Demise Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Wrathchild, I tried to skip the intro by running the rom at 10% speed and pressing START multiple times at the black screen credits, still unable to. Did you patch that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Just to be annoying I've added some code to set the background colour to the read byte value during copying. This will be taken out in the full release, though may remain as a single flashing line in the lower part of the screen, just to indicate that the system is busy. Is this why we see this rainbow, whenever the game loads? If it is, I don't think you need to leave even a single line in the final. The load times are so fast with the cart there is hardly any wait anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 (edited) Also, I think I had mentioned this to you before, but AR saves and reads information about your character nearly every time that you enter and exit an establishment. If you have not converted these reads and writes yet, that may be why you can only enter establishments once on your cart rom so far. The first time you enter, there is no history, but the second time, there should be a record, which the game does not find, and thus boots you back out. ***Just confirmed this problem with version 2. You can enter any type of establishment once, but after that you cannot re-enter the same type of establishment again. If you do, it will automatically leave. I thought it was establishment specific, but tried several of each type to confirm. For likely the very same reasons, not being able to save establishment and reputation data, v2 crashes when you cause a Smithy to be OUTRAGED from offering too low a price and the game tries to write data about the transaction to the disk causing a crash: Look at the little aliens, space ships and cities in the screenshot! Edited June 24, 2005 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 I've been trying to use the Cartridge image with Atari800Win Plus and Atari++ but all I get is the initial credits screen followed by either a black screen or a crash (depending on the memory, machine or cartridge type I select). As of Atari++ 1.40 (and I think 1.41 too) only the AtariMax cart supported was the 1 MegaBit cart, so the AR image won't currently run under this emulator. Hopefully Thomas will come out with a new release soon with this added. You'll need an updated Atari800Win Plus with flash support. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?a...e=post&id=31088 This should become mainstream in their next (beta) release. Regards, Mark 878150[/snapback] Add that link and instructions for selecting the Flashcart from the atari800win menu into the beginning of the first post, otherwise people reading the forum may not figure out how to get the rom running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 Keep the rainbow disk activity - I like knowing that something is happening behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 Keep the rainbow disk activity - I like knowing that something is happening behind the scenes. 880713[/snapback] I have to agree, I definitely like the rainbow loading indicator. Though even the small single line one in the latest version I'm testing would do fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 (edited) Keep the rainbow disk activity - I like knowing that something is happening behind the scenes. 880713[/snapback] I have to agree, I definitely like the rainbow loading indicator. Though even the small single line one in the latest version I'm testing would do fine. 880753[/snapback] What do you mean the latest version? You have a newer one than that posted? Aren't you special? Edited June 25, 2005 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 (edited) NO new rainbow loading bar in AR! Even if it is just one line, it changes the atmosphere and graphics. I'ts only needed for testing purposes. Once the game is functioning smoothly it will not be necessary as there will hardly be any wait anyway. The pretty little rainbow should definately not be added into the game permanently. Let's keep the conversion classic and first rate! Please! Additions to the game graphics that Philip Price did not create should not be made! While making changes to the artwork and code are necessary for converting the game, and making it look good and work on new media, changes to the actual game graphics is not necessary! If any changes are made at all, they should only be using game content or graphics that are already there, such as allowing access to the two guilds that are already in the game or access to Closed by Order of The Palace establishments. Don't add new content or graphics to the actual game that Philip Price did not design though! Edited June 25, 2005 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted June 25, 2005 Author Share Posted June 25, 2005 Have to disagree there. IMO, there does need to be an indication of 'activity', that the CPU is busy and will not respond to you. In the orginal game, this is the disk-drive itself - without it I found the delay in action odd. The pauses are significantly long enough to require a form of indication. To that end I'll be retaining the single-line version I initially outlined. There is an I/O issue on real hardware at the moment during the game so once this is resolved I'm happy to release another build to let others provide feedback on this. Regards, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted June 25, 2005 Author Share Posted June 25, 2005 Wrathchild, I tried to skip the intro by running the rom at 10% speed and pressing START multiple times at the black screen credits, still unable to. Did you patch that? 880312[/snapback] I'd written my own loader so this 'skip'would have been left out. I can code this in without issue for the next release. Regards, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 (edited) Have to disagree there. IMO, there does need to be an indication of 'activity', that the CPU is busy and will not respond to you. In the orginal game, this is the disk-drive itself - without it I found the delay in action odd. The pauses are significantly long enough to require a form of indication. To that end I'll be retaining the single-line version I initially outlined. There is an I/O issue on real hardware at the moment during the game so once this is resolved I'm happy to release another build to let others provide feedback on this. Regards, Mark 880843[/snapback] Maybe I missed something. Why is it needed? It really is annoying and looks bad. I have been playing on the emulator for a couple of months now and there is no reason that you need any indication of activity or indication that the CPU is busy. If the game is busy, none of the controls work anyway and the game does not cache any keys or movements, so what is the problem? A blinking line in the game will look more like a conversion error or conversion inconsistency to most the people that are used to playing Alternate Reality. Edited June 25, 2005 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velcro_SP Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 Instead of a flashing bar or line or whatever it is to indicate that the program is "thinking," how about a disk access clicking sound? An understated sound of course. PS: Did someone already say this cart will not run on Atari 800 w. 48K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 i would leave the "indication" out... looks like a bad crack instead of quality.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 i would leave the "indication" out... looks like a bad crack instead of quality.... 881138[/snapback] I imagine it could be removed by just changing one instruction to NOP, so I doubt its going to be a huge issue either way. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 If there is no 'backup' utiltiy you can be damn sure I want to know my character is being saved to the cart - some sort of disk activity indication is need IMHO. This in no way alters the graphics of the game Xebec - we're not changing bitmaps or sprites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 (edited) If there is no 'backup' utiltiy you can be damn sure I want to know my character is being saved to the cart - some sort of disk activity indication is need IMHO. This in no way alters the graphics of the game Xebec - we're not changing bitmaps or sprites. 881305[/snapback] I know it's not changing the graphics as far as the 1st person view window goes, but it does change the onscreen look and feel, even if only slightly. A flashing rainbow definately catches your attention and it looks kind of hokey. I agree with Heaven, it looks like a bad hack or conversion, even if it was intended. For the same reasons, I think the sectors should be padded, if possible, to make the disk loading indicator after the elevator doors close, function as in the original, completing the cycle. Once again, while not necessary, it just makes the conversion look more professional. I have faith in Wrathchild's abilities to code a reliable character save to cart. I would not expect anyone to be used to saving characters to a cartridge after 20 years of disk based saves and therefore I think I understand your concern. I feel that once the character save to cartridge code has been fully tested and is running smoothly and we have used it many times, we will all feel more comfortable about this incredible new feature of Alternate Reality on cartridge. How nice it will be to instantly save your character! Edited June 26, 2005 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 possible to write "SAVING" on screen instead of the colour flashes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 How bout a single blinking dot in one of the bottom corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 (edited) How bout a single blinking dot in one of the bottom corners? 881378[/snapback] I would not mind that. I still don't think it is necessary for a completed and tested cartridge. I'm not sure if your joking, by the way On a tangent, it's interesting that Philip never used anything like a "Loading" or "Saving" or "Busy" notes. I wonder if he is a roleplayer? Instead, when you enter or leave a building you have "Entering..." and "Leaving..." and when you save your character you do not see "saving," but instead, when it is finished it says "You have been Saved." I think he was trying to make the game as immersive as possible without any little reminders that you were actually playing a game on the computer, as strange as that may sound. Of course, then again, you are abruptly awakened from the AR dream with messages such as, "Insert Disk 1 Side 2 and Press Start" Edited June 27, 2005 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I think he was just trying to be a little more creative than the usual "loading" and "saving" texts that were and often are still plenitful in programs/games (even PS2 and Xbox games still say "saving" and "loading") I mean, especially with the old 8-bits and their noisy drives with "busy" LED's it was quite obvious to people that the computer was loading or saving, I always felt, and still do feel that putting these texts onscreen are dumb, even the latest PC's and consoles still have "busy" LED's that light up when a disk is being accessed, etc., so I'm quite aware of what the computer/console is doing without these idiotic "saving and "loading" texts in my face while it's being done. I always hated the PSX and DC "game is being saved to memory card, do not remove memory card or shut off system until done" texts too; well, DUH! no kidding! It's almost an insult to my intelligence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 (edited) Instead of a flashing bar or line or whatever it is to indicate that the program is "thinking," how about a disk access clicking sound? An understated sound of course. PS: Did someone already say this cart will not run on Atari 800 w. 48K? 880876[/snapback] Wow, that would be even closer to the original than having no indicator at all and would be nostalgic. Although, no indicator at all would improve the immersiveness of the game, a "beep, beep, beep, boop" might be enough to remind you that you are playing a 20 year old computer game and break your AR trance The cart is so wonderfully fast though that we may only get to hear one or two "beep, boops" "beep, beep, beep, boop, beep, beep boop" Good idea. So if we have to have an indicator, I vote for Velcro_SP's idea. He thinks outside the box! Edited June 27, 2005 by Xebec's Demise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 Send me the sound routine and I'll see if there's space anywhere for it The game itself is a 48K title, so running on the 400/800 isn't an issue. The 64K machines take advantage of the extra RAM by using it as a disk cache for some of the more often swapped overlays. Regards, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 "On a tangent, it's interesting that Philip never used anything like a "Loading" or "Saving" or "Busy" notes. I wonder if he is a roleplayer?" Correct, Philip relied on things like 'Insert Disk 1 Side 1' or 'Insert PLayer Disk' which popped on the screen to indicate something was going to happen. With the cart this is no longer available, so some sort of indicator is required - Esp if you want to keep it faithful to all the textual items you will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebec's Demise Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 "On a tangent, it's interesting that Philip never used anything like a "Loading" or "Saving" or "Busy" notes. I wonder if he is a roleplayer?" Correct, Philip relied on things like 'Insert Disk 1 Side 1' or 'Insert PLayer Disk' which popped on the screen to indicate something was going to happen. With the cart this is no longer available, so some sort of indicator is required - Esp if you want to keep it faithful to all the textual items you will see. 881700[/snapback] Right, but you will not need those anymore with the whole game on cart. You go straight from the Character menu to the floating gate on the cart ROM in case you have not tried it yet. Same with character saves, you don't need a prompt for a disk. You just press S for Save and then shorlty thereafter it will read, You have been saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 "On a tangent, it's interesting that Philip never used anything like a "Loading" or "Saving" or "Busy" notes. I wonder if he is a roleplayer?" Correct, Philip relied on things like 'Insert Disk 1 Side 1' or 'Insert PLayer Disk' which popped on the screen to indicate something was going to happen. With the cart this is no longer available, so some sort of indicator is required - Esp if you want to keep it faithful to all the textual items you will see. 881700[/snapback] Right, but you will not need those anymore with the whole game on cart. You go straight from the Character menu to the floating gate on the cart ROM in case you have not tried it yet. Same with character saves, you don't need a prompt for a disk. You just press S for Save and then shorlty thereafter it will read, You have been saved. 882076[/snapback] Understood - missing my point - You made reference to the fact that adding a disk acivity indicator or rainbow effect would change the graphics and that the Original didnt have these things - I was just pointing out that the original did have Disk Activity indicators in the prompts for asking for different disk sides - That was an indication of disk activity going on. Cart saves/loads without prompts is awesome - adding disk activity indicator is a good thing to replace to the original 'prompts' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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