For or for not, using cartridges games on JagCF ?

[Orion_]

I genuinely do not understand the complaints - they seem ludicrous! No one looks at the 2600 scene and complains about the Cuttle cart or emulation - hell, such things have only helped the 2600 homebrew scene become bigger! I mean really, does anyone really think there's going to be some kind of roaring trade in Jaguar piracy because of a device like the CF? C'mon, give your head a shake.

 

You are right, but the few people leading the drama are not honest enough to admit the Cuttle Cart (and other similar devices, on ALL platforms) helped to develop the homebrew scene. In fact, I have not seen a single example to show the contrary.

 

Er, hasn't the obvious size difference between the 2600 and the Jaguar homebrew scene already been discussed?

I count more collector in the jaguar scene than people who want to pirate the jaguar.

the 2600 homebrew scene is Now bigger, but a few years back it was not, just as the jaguar homebrew scene actually.

I think the JagCF is really going to change that and let people develop more easily on jaguar.

[Matthias]

Hello!

 

I have voted positive for this discussed feature (the "Cartride-ROM-Simulation" or whatever you can call it in a short manner) because when i worked on my Ethernet/FLASH-card i had it also implemented in my design.

The main reason for this was to offer developers who would like to work on a cartridge-game an alternative to the Atari-Alpine- and the Atari-FLASH-cards. The Atari-cards were not only rare but also not very cheap, i think

the Atari-FLASH-cards (4MB) and the 2MB-Alpine always had a price of 300 US-Dollars and when you have seen a 4MB-Alpine it was priced 500 USD and upwards, and i was pretty sure that in combination with modern uploading capabilities and modern software old and new developers would appreciate a new cartridge-design.

 

 

 

Best regards

Matthias

[Pocket]

I genuinely do not understand the complaints - they seem ludicrous! No one looks at the 2600 scene and complains about the Cuttle cart or emulation - hell, such things have only helped the 2600 homebrew scene become bigger! I mean really, does anyone really think there's going to be some kind of roaring trade in Jaguar piracy because of a device like the CF? C'mon, give your head a shake.

 

You are right, but the few people leading the drama are not honest enough to admit the Cuttle Cart (and other similar devices, on ALL platforms) helped to develop the homebrew scene. In fact, I have not seen a single example to show the contrary.

 

Er, hasn't the obvious size difference between the 2600 and the Jaguar homebrew scene already been discussed?

 

As I said before, the 2600 scene is bigger than the Jaguar one, I agree with that. But, the compact flash devices (or similar ones) exists for many others platforms, and it never killed them. On the contrary, it helped the develop the homebrew scene. Now, if you have an existing example wich could prove the contrary I would be happy to hear about that. Maybe I missed something in my researchs.

[Zerosquare]

(...)

Hi Matthias,

 

Thanks a lot for your input. We are particularly interested in what developers such as yourself have to say on this matter.

[Michael_]

(...)

Hi Matthias,

 

Thanks a lot for your input. We are particularly interested in what developers such as yourself have to say on this matter.

 

Yep. You might also want to listen to what is actually being said by developers like Steve Scavone, Scott LeGrand and Doug Engel.

Guess it´s a bit harder to accept that they don´t really agree with you. At all.

[agradeneu]

(...)

Hi Matthias,

 

Thanks a lot for your input. We are particularly interested in what developers such as yourself have to say on this matter.

 

Yep. You might also want to listen to what is actually being said by developers like Steve Scavone, Scott LeGrand and Doug Engel.

Guess it´s a bit harder to accept that they don´t really agree with you. At all.

 

 

Well, the funny thing is that TBird and Opressor are NOT active developers! They spread some rumor about games being in dev. but its obvious thats this is pure propaganda. In fact, most developers seem to be positive about CF. Just give it a thought why that is so?

[Michael_]

Well, the funny thing is that TBird and Opressor are NOT active developers! They spread some rumor about games being in dev. but its obvious thats this is pure propaganda.

 

How on earth can you know this?

[agradeneu]

Well, the funny thing is that TBird and Opressor are NOT active developers! They spread some rumor about games being in dev. but its obvious thats this is pure propaganda.

 

How on earth can you know this?

 

 

Because I know Tbird and his oversized ego.

[Michael_]

Well, the funny thing is that TBird and Opressor are NOT active developers! They spread some rumor about games being in dev. but its obvious thats this is pure propaganda.

 

How on earth can you know this?

 

 

Because I know Tbird and his oversized ego.

Oh!

Well that´s certainly a very strong and objective argument there. Glad to see real evidence is on the table here.

[agradeneu]

Well, the funny thing is that TBird and Opressor are NOT active developers! They spread some rumor about games being in dev. but its obvious thats this is pure propaganda.

 

How on earth can you know this?

 

 

Because I know Tbird and his oversized ego.

Oh!

Well that´s certainly a very strong and objective argument there. Glad to see real evidence is on the table here.

 

 

Well, a strong argument not to be fooled. Tbird atacks Jagware members since they have shown up and his atacks have become shamelessly idiotic since they have proven that they are serious about Jag coding and on great things to do. These are facts. If you cant see this you're probably blind.

[Michael_]

These are facts.

 

Hardly.

[Pocket]

(...)

Hi Matthias,

 

Thanks a lot for your input. We are particularly interested in what developers such as yourself have to say on this matter.

 

Yep. You might also want to listen to what is actually being said by developers like Steve Scavone, Scott LeGrand and Doug Engel.

Guess it´s a bit harder to accept that they don´t really agree with you. At all.

 

 

Well, the funny thing is that TBird and Opressor are NOT active developers! They spread some rumor about games being in dev. but its obvious thats this is pure propaganda. In fact, most developers seem to be positive about CF. Just give it a thought why that is so?

 

Yes, and this poor tentative failled, even on JSII a majority of people want this feature.

[+LS650]

Er, hasn't the obvious size difference between the 2600 and the Jaguar homebrew scene already been discussed?

Well, I've heard the argument that because the 2600 scene has more people involved, it can better survive 'piracy'. I'm not sure I believe that argument...

So let's take a look at that 2600 scene. Sure a lot of people play ROMs on emulators, or try running ROMs on Cuttle carts - but that has only been beneficial to the 2600. Look at all the homebrew carts that have come out over the last couple of years - and emulators/download devices have helped developers to bring that about.

 

Will some people pirate newly-released items with a JagCF? Eh, maybe... but it's a double-edged sword, because such a device will also make it easier for developers to bring out new stuff. IMHO, the JagCF would be a huge boast to the Jaguar scene.

[Pocket]

Er, hasn't the obvious size difference between the 2600 and the Jaguar homebrew scene already been discussed?

Well, I've heard the argument that because the 2600 scene has more people involved, it can better survive 'piracy'. I'm not sure I believe that argument...

So let's take a look at that 2600 scene. Sure a lot of people play ROMs on emulators, or try running ROMs on Cuttle carts - but that has only been beneficial to the 2600. Look at all the homebrew carts that have come out over the last couple of years - and emulators/download devices have helped developers to bring that about.

 

Will some people pirate newly-released items with a JagCF? Eh, maybe... but it's a double-edged sword, because such a device will also make it easier for developers to bring out new stuff. IMHO, the JagCF would be a huge boast to the Jaguar scene.

 

This is exactly how I see the things and this is what happened on every other scene. Moreover, tinier the scene is, more hardcore (= collectors) the members are.

[Zerosquare]

Yep. You might also want to listen to what is actually being said by developers like Steve Scavone, Scott LeGrand and Doug Engel.

Guess it´s a bit harder to accept that they don´t really agree with you. At all.

I've already pointed out that future cartridges releases can be protected if their authors choose to do so. And if Thunderbird and Oppressor are that concerned about people potentially pirating BattleSphere, we'll go as far as including specific protections for this game in the hardware.

[+remowilliams]

And if Thunderbird and Oppressor are that concerned about people potentially pirating BattleSphere, we'll go as far as including specific protections for this game in the hardware.

Why do I get the feeling that this is what all the carrying on is really all about.

[jaybird3rd]

There's apparently something the Jaguar needs even more than a CF cartridge ...

 

... its own Middle East policy!

 

[EmOneGarand]

And if Thunderbird and Oppressor are that concerned about people potentially pirating BattleSphere, we'll go as far as including specific protections for this game in the hardware.

Why do I get the feeling that this is what all the carrying on is really all about.

I think thats what ANY Battlesphere owner fears... that the less fortunate would ever get to play the game that they consider themselves exclusive for owning. As for Thunderbird and the rest of the 4Play people, what would it matter? All their proceeds went to charity, they have nothing to lose if "piracy" of that game ever became the case.

[+remowilliams]

As for Thunderbird and the rest of the 4Play people, what would it matter? All their proceeds went to charity, they have nothing to lose if "piracy" of that game ever became the case.

OT, but I have a feeling that any future super duper extra platinum mega deluxe 'one of a kind' versions of BS sold - will continue to sell. People buy them because they are collectors and/or care about the professed disposition of proceeds.

 

And (before anyone comes screaming down the road with this one) unless I'm mistaken, no charity gets a cut of the outrageous prices that BS regularly resells for on eBay.

 

Back OT - a Jaguar flash card is inevitable. At some point in the near future, it's going to happen. Would all you nay-sayers rather have someone with zero care for the 'scene' develop one, or would you rather have Jagware be the first to bring it to life?

 

Ethusiasts will continue to buy and support the authors and resellers who still remain. They have in every single other community, and they will in this one too. Jag people if anything are even more hardcore.

 

Jagware, please listen to the 'voting' public and make it the way your audience wants. Ignore the pressure and other veiled ludicrous threats of lawsuits or developers abandoning everyone. The CF will allow enthusiasts (the only people who remain) to enjoy their Jags with greater convienience, and will lower the entrance barrier of future developers.

 

Once again I am reminded why I remain at the very fringe of the Jag scene, only occasionally looking in.

Edited September 25, 2006 by remowilliams

[GT Turbo]

Jagware, please listen to the 'voting' public and make it the way your audience wants. Ignore the pressure and other veiled ludicrous threats of lawsuits or developers abandoning everyone. The CF will allow enthusiasts (the only people who remain) to enjoy their Jags with greater convienience, and will lower the entrance barrier of future developers.

 

We will follow 'voting public'

You must seen this features like a dev tool. Allowing people who don't have or can't buy an Alpine to dev cartridges games for a very cheap price.

 

GT Turbo (Jagware)

Edited September 25, 2006 by GT Turbo

[EmOneGarand]

As for Thunderbird and the rest of the 4Play people, what would it matter? All their proceeds went to charity, they have nothing to lose if "piracy" of that game ever became the case.

unless I'm mistaken, no charity gets a cut of the outrageous prices that BS regularly resells for on eBay.

Neither do any of the 4Play and Scatalogic people, only the greedy SOB's on ebay who probly bought multiple copies of the game when it was available.

[jaguar_fan]

I voted NO!

 

There are a number of reasons for that:

 

As a collector it is my goal to own every game published in it´s original form. So far I own 79 different Jaguar cartridge and CD games with only a few missing. As such I do not have the need to use cartridge games on JagCF.

 

As a collector I find it inappropriate to even think about making copies of original games.

 

Piracy sucks.

 

An original cartridge looks and feels better. I don´t need something like a "Jaguar Flashback" with dozens of games squeezed into whatever the box may look like.

 

 

Apart from that I still think that JagCF will be a great product if dedicated to new games. New games it what the Jaguar community needs - not copies of old games which can be still found and bought in their original versions.

 

JagCF will hopefully help encouraging developpers to continue with the work they have started a while ago or start to develop from scratch. Once JagCF is available I will surely buy it.

[Atariboy]

This thread is kind of confusing to wade through, but if it serves as a Cuttle Cart II for the Atari Jaguar, I'm 100% behind it.

Edited September 26, 2006 by Atariboy

[+remowilliams]

This thread is kind of confusing to wade through, but if it serves as a Cutte Cart II for the Atari Jaguar, I'm 100% behind it.

In the sense that both are/would be great development tools and also be able to run ROM images, that would be correct. The JagCF will have copy protection for new releases if the authors so choose.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the JagCF is also to have other expansion capabilities (network, keyboard and more).

 

Also since its been mentioned elsewhere - personally I'm not voting on other forums on this issue. I have neither the time or desire.

Edited September 25, 2006 by remowilliams

[Tyrant]

Damnit, I was trying to stay out of this argument, but now I think I really should say something.

 

I'm 110% behind this, with the rom emulation feature.

 

I've got a pretty substantial set of games, about 40-50 as a rough guess, including some paid for homebrew, and some downloaded homebrew. I have an alpine, and a reasonable set of dumped roms, which I often load into the alpine to play rather than finding the cartridge (not least to avoid damage to the alpine by moving it about too much), and yes, sometimes I play games I dont own.

 

Big f*cking deal! Piracy is not evil, and I'll defend my right to do whatever the hell I want to do.

 

I consider myself a collector, I'm proud of the Jag games I own, and plan to complete the set one day, but in the mean while, if I can get a dumped rom, I see no reason on earth not to use it. I am also a developer, and I'm sure that at some point, (i.e. when I actually release anything), people will use cf carts to run my code. This does not worry me at all, because some of what I will release (most, probably) will be free, and because if I write anything good enough to sell, I can code it to recognise when it is on a cf cart, and either refuse to run, or ask for a serial number or something similar.

 

This is not true of the emulators, which are a potential problem for anyone attempting to sell games, but, realistically, people WILL buy games, if they are good enough, and nobody expects to make a proffit from Jag coding. It is a hobby for each and every one of us, and so if people choose to download games instead of buying them, big deal. It would be an insult, yes, but it wouldn't hurt the developer in any way at all, and lets face it, we've all been insulted before, and will be again.

 

Oh,and:

Well, the funny thing is that TBird and Opressor are NOT active developers! They spread some rumor about games being in dev. but its obvious thats this is pure propaganda.

 

How on earth can you know this?

You must be joking, right?

 

Anyone who has EVER had a conversation with Thunderbird knows instantly what kinda man he is.

 

Well that´s certainly a very strong and objective argument there. Glad to see real evidence is on the table here.

Just try doing a search back through the AtariAge archives, look for locked threads featuring Thunderbird. Before he was banned, that is.

 

Seriously, listen to the people who are actually writing code eh? (yes, I know I've not actually released anything yet, and thus maybe don't count, but there are many active developers here with real projects who are in support of this).

 

Right... now I've said my bit, I can return to lurking quietly in the shadows.