For or for not, using cartridges games on JagCF ?

[GT Turbo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the JagCF is also to have other expansion capabilities (network, keyboard and more).

 

You're not wrong, some infos about JagCF here :

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...p;#entry1140928

 

 

Thanks to Zerosquare for the link.

 

 

 

GT Turbo (Jagware)

[+Stephen Moss]

I have not voted as I am neutral on the subject.

 

What I will say is that with a collection of about a third of all Jag releases I am near the limit of offical releases that I think I would like, therefore having all the Cartridge games available to play on a single CF card would be usefull as a try before you buy tool and it would save dragging a lot of cartridges around with you and damaging the boxes if you are taking hardware to a show.

While writing some dedicated menu software to allow you select the different games to play is probably straight forward as the creator can dump the cartridge ROM images at a memory location of thier choosing it could prove more difficult when it comes to games saves as the game code is designed to store data at a specific set of memory location in a cartridge and so it is likely that game saves from dumped roms will be difficult to handle as they will either over writing other saves/dumped rom images or be unable to find the latest save amoung the various different games saves from a multitude of games requiring you to own the cartridge version if you want to save your progress, also you won't get any instructions or overlays.

 

As a cheaper method of releasing and coding new "cartridge" games I think that CF could be the way forward provided you can get them large enough to put a readable lable on, although the initial CF to Jag interface may be expensive it will probably pay for itself in the long term providing that you can just purchase the one interface and exchange the CF cards.

[Htbaa]

I voted yes. If the CF won't be too expensive and it will support playing roms I'm getting it. I can't get all the games out there and although Piracy stinks a bit, it doesn't matter for the Jaguar. Why? Because all the games that were released during the time the Jaguar was around don't give the publishers or creators any money. Publishers who recently released a Jaguar game should be too scared also. Why? Because if there is no rom dump, no one can play it right?

 

I really hope CF will come soon and I hope it will be supported big time by the community. The group isn't too big anymore so why block anything that might expend the Jaguar community?

[Michael_]

I voted yes. If the CF won't be too expensive and it will support playing roms I'm getting it. I can't get all the games out there and although Piracy stinks a bit, it doesn't matter for the Jaguar.

 

Good boy. Thanks for proving my point.

Are you paying attention, Jagware?

[jaguar_fan]

I voted yes. If the CF won't be too expensive and it will support playing roms I'm getting it. I can't get all the games out there and although Piracy stinks a bit, it doesn't matter for the Jaguar.

 

Good boy. Thanks for proving my point.

Are you paying attention, Jagware?

 

 

Well, what can be expected other than people will use a back door if there´s one??

 

That´s why I voted no (see my post above).

[+LS650]

Someone mentioned that there's some way that the device could be open to older ROMs, but lockout newer ROMs.

 

How would that work, exactly? If that is possible, one could download an older game (say Atari Karts or Missile Command) but not be able to run BattleSphere or any Songbird carts.

[EmOneGarand]

Someone mentioned that there's some way that the device could be open to older ROMs, but lockout newer ROMs.

 

How would that work, exactly? If that is possible, one could download an older game (say Atari Karts or Missile Command) but not be able to run BattleSphere or any Songbird carts.

I think GT Turbo said the lock out feature would be an option for future developers who wish it, so I don't think games that were made before the CF is released could possibly have a lock out (Unless GT adds something to stop the cartridge itself from booting those games)

[GT Turbo]

I think GT Turbo said the lock out feature would be an option for future developers who wish it, so I don't think games that were made before the CF is released could possibly have a lock out (Unless GT adds something to stop the cartridge itself from booting those games)

 

Yes, for CF games, developers who wants they can protect their games. For old games, we are thinking on. But if you want real infos about the JagCF, better wait Zerosquare or SCPCD, who are the two hardware men who is working on

 

 

 

GT

[SCPCD]

Someone mentioned that there's some way that the device could be open to older ROMs, but lockout newer ROMs.

 

How would that work, exactly? If that is possible, one could download an older game (say Atari Karts or Missile Command) but not be able to run BattleSphere or any Songbird carts.

A new released game would know easily if it run on the JagCF : by writing then reading the same address in SDRAM for exemple or by access to registers, other techics are possible.

Edited September 28, 2006 by SCPCD

[Htbaa]

I voted yes. If the CF won't be too expensive and it will support playing roms I'm getting it. I can't get all the games out there and although Piracy stinks a bit, it doesn't matter for the Jaguar.

 

Good boy. Thanks for proving my point.

Are you paying attention, Jagware?

 

I hope he is, because the majority isn't supporting your opinion.

 

I've bought the Jaguar and about 30 games. Since the old games don't make any money for the developers or publishers there's no big deal in playing them from a CF card. I guess you're also against the people who have a jaguar flash card. Or maybe, just maybe you have one yourself and you're angry about the fact you paid big money for the flash card and other people can get the same kind of stuff in the near future, just cheaper. Or I'm just wrong, would be funny to know if you would have a flash card . Or is it because you have a original copy of BS and don't want to see someone playing the rom?

 

Anyhow, I root for everyone who brings something new to the Jaguar scene. Although, not quite true... There are a few that should leave the scene. But hey, who am I .

Edited September 28, 2006 by Htbaa

[MegaData]

It's not that hard to get all the games legally. I shall vote no as this would be illegal and will be a nail in the coffin on future developments from certain well known developers. I'd love to vote yes, if it means the creators and users go directly to jail, do not pass "go" to collect any profits from it, and do not obtain a "get out of jail free" card. Hasbro did not make ATARI games freeware! The old games are owned by the current Atari company. They can release them as "retro games" any time they want. You have to be able to dump a ROM before you can load it onto a Flash Cartridge. You're breaking the law if you use it with dumped ROMs. Just because a person has a Flash Cart or Alpine doesn't mean they abuse the law but, if you get the CF, I would bet on it. It's not for development. It's slower than anything for Jaguar Development currently available.

 

*Note that when I use the word "you," or a variation thereof, it is generally not directed at anyone in particular.

Edited September 28, 2006 by MegaData

[Orion_]

I voted yes. If the CF won't be too expensive and it will support playing roms I'm getting it. I can't get all the games out there and although Piracy stinks a bit, it doesn't matter for the Jaguar.

 

Good boy. Thanks for proving my point.

Are you paying attention, Jagware?

quoting only the half of the post can say whatever you want to it.

[GT Turbo]

It's not that hard to get all the games legally. I shall vote no as this would be illegal and will be a nail in the coffin on future developments from certain well known developers. I'd love to vote yes, if it means the creators and users go directly to jail, do not pass "go" to collect any profits from it, and do not obtain a "get out of jail free" card. Hasbro did not make ATARI games freeware! The old games are owned by the current Atari company. They can release them as "retro games" any time they want. You have to be able to dump a ROM before you can load it onto a Flash Cartridge. You're breaking the law if you use it with dumped ROMs. Just because a person has a Flash Cart or Alpine doesn't mean they abuse the law but, if you get the CF, I would bet on it. It's not for development. It's slower than anything for Jaguar Development currently available.

 

*Note that when I use the word "you," or a variation thereof, it is generally not directed at anyone in particular.

 

Juste one question, with my Falcon and my Bjl Jag i can dump any games, so we have to put Atari and Bastian Shick in jail because i can do illegal things with no ? We have to put a lot of sellers in jail, people who sell USB storage card, who sells dvd burners, who sells memory card, no ? Because i can use all this things to doing illegal things. I can even put battlesphere rom on a SD card, so we have a VERY VERY BIG problem, you don't think ? We have a bunch of people to put in jail. Car sellers because you can kill people with a car, weapons sellers too....

 

GT

[+remowilliams]

It's not that hard to get all the games legally. I shall vote no as this would be illegal and will be a nail in the coffin on future developments from certain well known developers. I'd love to vote yes, if it means the creators and users go directly to jail, do not pass "go" to collect any profits from it, and do not obtain a "get out of jail free" card.

The JagCF is like virtually any other technology ever developed in the fact that it's dual use. How it is used depends upon the user of the technology. Nobody was ever jailed for buying a CDRW to play games.

 

The is nothing illegal about the proposed JagCF, that's just BullSh*t

 

And as far as other certain 'well known developers' it would seem the ones who are most often treated as some kind of idols, have long abandoned the platform. Let new people join the development party with an affordable and available dev kit...

Edited September 28, 2006 by remowilliams

[EmOneGarand]

It's not that hard to get all the games legally. I shall vote no as this would be illegal and will be a nail in the coffin on future developments from certain well known developers. I'd love to vote yes, if it means the creators and users go directly to jail, do not pass "go" to collect any profits from it, and do not obtain a "get out of jail free" card.

The JagCF is like virtually any other technology ever developed in the fact that it's dual use. How it is used depends upon the user of the technology. Nobody was ever jailed for buying a CDRW to play games.

 

The is nothing illegal about the proposed JagCF, that's just BullSh*t

 

And as far as other certain 'well known developers' it would seem the ones who are most often treated as some kind of idols, have long abandoned the platform. Let new people join the development party with an affordable and available dev kit...

Exactly!

 

We also might as well (according to MegaData) put everyone who invented the internet and uses it since it makes piracy just as easy in jail as well Lets put all the companies that make VCRs, MiniDisc players, CD-Rom drives, Burners and blank discs, Tape Cassette Decks and microphones, lets sue the decendents of Thomas Edison for making phonograph and wax cylinder technology, what about punch cards??? Somebody could copy your data with a hole punch *gasp* hell lets sue anybody whos ever made devices that could hold data of any kind... It's just plain ignorant to blame the maker of a product that could be used for any kind of illegal use even more so to blaim anybody who might wants to use said product.

Edited September 28, 2006 by EmOneGarand

[MegaData]

That's "Megadeth!"

 

Wasn't it Thomas Edison put his own son in Jail for not being a "Patriot?"

 

To refresh your memory, though spelling may be something of an issue, this thread was trying to ask for opinions on using cartridge games with the Jag CF. I've pointed out reasons why that is illegal. Try READING the Hasbro Release of rights. It means that developers don't have to buy licenses to release new games and says Atari holds all rights to their properties. You won't do well in a court of law if you follow the yes votes in the poll and end up in front of a judge with a JagCF holding ROMs on it. If you don't accept no votes, why have the option?

 

GT, perhaps you could rephrase that "one" question?

[+LS650]

I don't think games that were made before the CF is released could possibly have a lock out (Unless GT adds something to stop the cartridge itself from booting those games)

So... could that be done? Can the JagCF be built so that certain older carts can be "locked out", where the developers have actively asked that that be done? Could a JagCF recognize a cart and say "That's Super Burnout, so it's okay" or "That's Total Carnage, so it's NOT okay" ?

 

Sounds kind of complicated, so maybe it's not easily feasible...

Edited September 28, 2006 by ls650

[agradeneu]

That's "Megadeth!"

 

Wasn't it Thomas Edison put his own son in Jail for not being a "Patriot?"

 

To refresh your memory, though spelling may be something of an issue, this thread was trying to ask for opinions on using cartridge games with the Jag CF. I've pointed out reasons why that is illegal. Try READING the Hasbro Release of rights. It means that developers don't have to buy licenses to release new games and says Atari holds all rights to their properties. You won't do well in a court of law if you follow the yes votes in the poll and end up in front of a judge with a JagCF holding ROMs on it. If you don't accept no votes, why have the option?

 

GT, perhaps you could rephrase that "one" question?

 

 

Certain Protos are "ilegally" sold since day one so whats the heck about CF?

[Zerosquare]

We never said we wanted the older Atari games to be considered abandonwares. Besides allowing cartridge developers who don't have an Alpine to test their software, and running protos, this JagCF feature is intended to let people run the cartridges they own from a Compact Flash (like similar solutions on other platforms). There's nothing illegal about playing games you own. If someone decides to pirate games using the JagCF, it's their legal and ethical responsability -- we certainly don't support this, and this is not the function of the JagCF.

Edited September 28, 2006 by Zerosquare

[Zerosquare]

So... could that be done? Can the JagCF be built so that certain older carts can be "locked out", where the developers have actively asked that that be done? Could a JagCF recognize a cart and say "That's Super Burnout, so it's okay" or "That's Total Carnage, so it's NOT okay" ?

 

Sounds kind of complicated, so maybe it's not easily feasible...

We're currently looking into this solution.

[mariaud]

I don't think games that were made before the CF is released could possibly have a lock out (Unless GT adds something to stop the cartridge itself from booting those games)

So... could that be done? Can the JagCF be built so that certain older carts can be "locked out", where the developers have actively asked that that be done? Could a JagCF recognize a cart and say "That's Super Burnout, so it's okay" or "That's Total Carnage, so it's NOT okay" ?

 

Sounds kind of complicated, so maybe it's not easily feasible...

 

and if the JagCF recognize Checkered Flag it will display this instead

[EmOneGarand]

That's "Megadeth!"

 

Wasn't it Thomas Edison put his own son in Jail for not being a "Patriot?"

 

To refresh your memory, though spelling may be something of an issue, this thread was trying to ask for opinions on using cartridge games with the Jag CF. I've pointed out reasons why that is illegal. Try READING the Hasbro Release of rights. It means that developers don't have to buy licenses to release new games and says Atari holds all rights to their properties. You won't do well in a court of law if you follow the yes votes in the poll and end up in front of a judge with a JagCF holding ROMs on it. If you don't accept no votes, why have the option?

 

GT, perhaps you could rephrase that "one" question?

Nice comeback potsy.. you can't hold the developer of a product responsible for the misuse by the consumer. Just because it could be used for illegal use does not make the device itself Illegal, your statement WOULD NOT hold up in court. It's laughable to think that you actually think that the current holders of the Atari rights would actually take anybody to court over games that many of which Atari licensed themselves, it would cost way too much and would not prove feasible since all Atarigrames cares about is their current licenses and saving their failing finances. People on Ebay have beein breaking copyright laws for years and how many of them have been brought to court? The CF is gonna come out no matter what you or the other small percentage of those against it say, it's a free market and Jagware can release whatever they want as long as their not directly breaking any laws which they are not. Theres really no point in arguing anymore because nobody is ever gonna agree because everybody is so pigheaded about it, this kind of stuff is what will really kill the Jaguar, the internal strife.

[cobracon]

That's "Megadeth!"

 

Wasn't it Thomas Edison put his own son in Jail for not being a "Patriot?"

 

To refresh your memory, though spelling may be something of an issue, this thread was trying to ask for opinions on using cartridge games with the Jag CF. I've pointed out reasons why that is illegal. Try READING the Hasbro Release of rights. It means that developers don't have to buy licenses to release new games and says Atari holds all rights to their properties. You won't do well in a court of law if you follow the yes votes in the poll and end up in front of a judge with a JagCF holding ROMs on it. If you don't accept no votes, why have the option?

 

GT, perhaps you could rephrase that "one" question?

Nice comeback potsy.. you can't hold the developer of a product responsible for the misuse by the consumer. Just because it could be used for illegal use does not make the device itself Illegal, your statement WOULD NOT hold up in court.

 

This is true, but, for instance they sell a cf cart to Htbaa when he in fact stated he would use it to pirate games, well, thats a crime you could be held accountable for. As the developer of the product knows his intentions before the purchase, they are then helping him to pirate games. This is a very dangerous road indeed.

 

Robert

[Tyrant]

and will be a nail in the coffin on future developments from certain well known developers.

 

Actually, from the "well known" and "lesser known" developers who've voiced an opinion on this, it seems that they all consider it a good thing, myself included (I being one of the lesser knowns ). If you're meaning Thunderbird, well, I don't think anyone here honestly thinks he's ever going to release anything more anyway, except perhaps a new colour case for bs or something, at twice the price and with just ten copies available.

 

As I said in my other post, listen to the real coders if you want to know what they think, but something tells me you dont really want to know what they think at all.

 

Ho hum... life in the Jag scene flames on as usual... I'm so glad I came back

[Phineasfool]

and will be a nail in the coffin on future developments from certain well known developers.

 

Actually, from the "well known" and "lesser known" developers who've voiced an opinion on this, it seems that they all consider it a good thing, myself included (I being one of the lesser knowns ). If you're meaning Thunderbird, well, I don't think anyone here honestly thinks he's ever going to release anything more anyway, except perhaps a new colour case for bs or something, at twice the price and with just ten copies available.

 

As I said in my other post, listen to the real coders if you want to know what they think, but something tells me you dont really want to know what they think at all.

 

Ho hum... life in the Jag scene flames on as usual... I'm so glad I came back

 

There are other developers besides T-Bird that have shown concern about the CF. In fact it seems most of the developers that are in favor of it haven't actually put anything out yet.