+Omegamatrix Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Wow! Thanks Tempest!! I think I'll try to make a sorted table of contents sometime during christmas. The idea being you could look at a list of games covered in this thread and click the link beside to see the discussion on it. something like this: Hangman (PAL) - (post #72) Superman - (post #67) etc.... something along those lines to make finding the information in here easier, like Sr. Ferraz did in his thread. Any ideas would be much appreciated before I start it though. I wouldn't want to get halfway through and no one likes it. As for placement, I was thinking in the first post of this thread under the roms that need to be dumped. Problem is that is a very long post already, and it's a lot of scrolling down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Wow! Thanks Tempest!! I think I'll try to make a sorted table of contents sometime during christmas. The idea being you could look at a list of games covered in this thread and click the link beside to see the discussion on it. something like this: Hangman (PAL) - (post #72) Superman - (post #67) etc.... something along those lines to make finding the information in here easier, like Sr. Ferraz did in his thread. Any ideas would be much appreciated before I start it though. I wouldn't want to get halfway through and no one likes it. As for placement, I was thinking in the first post of this thread under the roms that need to be dumped. Problem is that is a very long post already, and it's a lot of scrolling down. A table of contents would be cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) Old hat IMO. Better focus on the ROMs that still need to be dumped, added or examined. Edited December 20, 2009 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Old hat IMO. Not too sure what you mean by "old hat". If a person wanted to know what verision of Demon Attack (text or pic label) had the ending wave, well they can either play it to that level, or dump it and compare. I have already done a comparision for Demon Attack though. They could simply look at that. It's a lot easier to find the information when there is a table of contents, and where else tells you what specifice rom belongs to what specific cart (text, pic label) and so forth. So I'm not sure how that is "old hat"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 I had an opportunity to dump a bunch of pirate carts. These are Funvision carts, and we know they are Funvision because the carts are double labeled. Underneath the top label is a ovalish label that says "Halley's Comet " and "Funvision". This picture is from Brucebidder (hope he doesn't mind me lifting it! Not at home as I'm writing this). You can see the Halley's Comet labels, and the top labels peeled off. Note too that his Treasure Hunting didn't have a Halley's comet label underneath, but the copy I have does. It seems that most of the time the Halley's comet label is there for these carts, and when it's not they have the cartoonish label as shown in the photo. Don't ask me what is going on in that photo. All I can tell you is a lot of drugs were involved. Now these carts came in baby blue boxes, and red boxes (look at a lot like Zellers boxes), and Hi - Score cart type of boxes. All my carts are NTSC rom dump verified, but I do believe that the baby blue boxes have also been found in PAL countries, namely Australia. I know Jah has one, and I believe Pang too, but that's from memory. Anyhow here are some dumps: Funvision - Halley\'s Comet dumps.zip Busy Police - 100% same as Zellers Busy Police (Keystone Kapers hack) Dragon Treasure - 100% same as DragonFire Grand Prize - new dump, 1 byte different from Enduro, this byte turns the text black hiding the logo and copyright (but not the Activision color bars). Mighty Mouse - %100 same as Zellers Farmer Dan (Gopher hack) Ocean City - %100 same as Zellers Ocean City Defender (Atlantis hack) - Nice to see the funvision logo still is there too! Persian Gulf War - %100 matches River Raid (Polyvox) - however all that is done is the logo and copyright are erased. These hacks could have been done independently and still match 100% very easily. Plug Attack - new dump, differs from Plaque Attack in that the logo and copyright have been erased. Tank City - new dump, Thunderground hack, gone is the "© 1983 SEGA" to be replaced by a bunch of scrolling cars? I think they are cars... Time Warp - %100 matches Zellers Time Warp Treasure Hunting - new dump, Pitfall! 2 bytes have been hacked to load black text, effectively hiding the logo and copyright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Looking at David Winter's proto for Jungle Hunt, it appears that the different bytes are never used. the differences are at: $DFF9 (bank 0) - $FF (released version) $6B (proto) $FFF8 (bank 1) - $FF (released verision) $9D (proto) All bankswitching in Jungle Hunt is done with STA, so nothing is ever read at the hotspots no matter what. While I think that David's dump is good, the bytes themselves serve no purpose, and this rom can still be considered the finished verision, with differences at the hotspots. JungleHunt(DW_PAL_Proto).bin I've always been curious though if you could read the byte at $xFF8 while in bank 0, and $xFF9 while in bank 1. I might write a test program later today and try it out. It'd be good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 ..., with differences at the hotspots. The contents which are read from the hotspots are more or less random, depending on the dumper used. So most likes both ROMs are 100% identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 ..., with differences at the hotspots. The contents which are read from the hotspots are more or less random, depending on the dumper used. So most likes both ROMs are 100% identical. It's too bad the released verision can never be read 100% accurately. I believe David read his eproms directly, so his dumps are true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.winter Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 It's too bad the released verision can never be read 100% accurately. I believe David read his eproms directly, so his dumps are true. Hi guys, Sorry for not coming back earlier, I've been busy and so forgot to check this thread. Indeed I read the eproms directly so what you have in the dump is what's on the chip. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) Omega, I'm adding the Funvision dumps now. Although I think they are, I would like to know this: Are these 100% identical: time_warp_funvision (atarimania).zip time_warp_funvision (omegamatrix).zip Are these 100% identical: dragon_treasure_funvision (atarimania).zip dragon_treasure_funvision (omegamatrix).zip Edited January 24, 2010 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Both comparisons are 100% identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Thanks, Nukey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Finally, these two: A: Ocean City (AKA Atlantis) (Funvision - Fund. International Co.).bin B: Ocean City (AKA Atlantis) (Funvision - Fund. International Co.).bin 100% identical? Edited January 25, 2010 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Only 3 bytes differ, but the program is broken at this point in (A): ;@=$F87B INC AUDF1,X ;6 ADC $C1,X ;4 STA WSYNC,X ;4 Compare this with the same portion in (B): ;@=$F87B INC $BA,X ;6 LDY $C1,X ;4 BNE LF883 ;2 Different argument for the first line, opcode for the second, and opcode for the third. It's a fair guess that (A) is a corrupt or bad version, since read/write operations (INC) will not work the same for system ram (AUDF1) as they do for user ram. Was it a confirmed dump of an actual rom? If not, it's probably just a bad dump of (B). Edited January 25, 2010 by Nukey Shay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Was it a confirmed dump of an actual rom? It was the dump already in my collection. It's from 08-01-2000 I will replace it by Omega's dump. Thanks, Nukey! Edited January 25, 2010 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Strange. I looked the (A) version up in the old Stella.pro and it says: Ocean City (Prototype) ??? Edited January 25, 2010 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 A bitrotted or badly-produced eprom? Maybe one exists with those errors? The 3 bytes are almost sequential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 How many ROMs of Beany Bopper are out there? A couple of us have gotten different results when rolling the score. It might just be because we're playing on different consoles, though. The other person was on a 2600 Jr, and I was on a 7800. Just 3 AFAIK (not including the 3 hacks created here)...the original which displays the text "BEANY BOPPER" released in '82, and one released a year later which displays the text "*cce*" instead. I dunno when the "prototype" by Xante appeared. Can you remember what the score-rolling difference was (color or score value), and if the game select bug/option/cheat/whatever was used at any time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 Strange. I looked the (A) version up in the old Stella.pro and it says: Ocean City (Prototype) ??? These types of situations can happen when roms aren't sourced. Who knows now where that rom really came from? Anyhow since Ocean City is a hack of Atlantis, you can compare the changes between the two and it reaffirms what Nukey was saying. It must have been a bad dump or a case of bit rot. @ Rom, Wickey also re-dumped his Pole Position cart, and gets the same dump he posted. I looked at the rom with a rough disassembly, and checked the source code as well. I can't find anyplace that calls this data (if it is data). It looks like garbage data, but I would say it's a legit alternate as it came off a real cart. I'd feel a lot better though calling it that if another Pole Position cart could be found that had a matching rom though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Strange. I looked the (A) version up in the old Stella.pro and it says: Ocean City (Prototype) ??? These types of situations can happen when roms aren't sourced. Who knows now where that rom really came from? Anyhow since Ocean City is a hack of Atlantis, you can compare the changes between the two and it reaffirms what Nukey was saying. It must have been a bad dump or a case of bit rot. @ Rom, Wickey also re-dumped his Pole Position cart, and gets the same dump he posted. I looked at the rom with a rough disassembly, and checked the source code as well. I can't find anyplace that calls this data (if it is data). It looks like garbage data, but I would say it's a legit alternate as it came off a real cart. I'd feel a lot better though calling it that if another Pole Position cart could be found that had a matching rom though. I just opened my alternate ROM in a hex editor and compared it with the current ~ version. This is what I see: Addr. ~ Alt. 0FFA 3E23 00D3 1FFA 3E23 3E23 This leads me to believe that mine is not an alternate after all, and that the ~ version is a bad dump (I haven't been able to find a cart with that ROM) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Pole Position is an F8-switching game...and the decision to ignore changes in hotspots (which would include anything beyond hotspots for F8) and cartridge RAM was already made. Neither one is a "previous version" or "alternate rom", since it's impossible to use such ROM locations for program or data anyway. It doesn't even matter to the 2600, since the hardware doesn't utilize the NMI vector (xFFA-xFFB) at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Pole Position is an F8-switching game...and the decision to ignore changes in hotspots (which would include anything beyond hotspots for F8) and cartridge RAM was already made. Neither one is a "previous version" or "alternate rom", since it's impossible to use such ROM locations for program or data anyway. It doesn't even matter to the 2600, since the hardware doesn't utilize the NMI vector (xFFA-xFFB) at all. I disagree. While in this case it really doesn't matter (the bytes don't appear to be used), I see no reason you can't use xFFA and xFFB for a two byte table in an F8 cart. Also, break and reset vectors can be different for different for each bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Omegamatrix Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 Okay, than a bad dump that Pole Position is. @ Nukey, are you saying any bytes above $FFF7 in F8 bankswitching can't be read? I think some F8 games at least use a break vector in one bank but not the other... Jungle Hunt springs to mind. I would like to test this your theory on real hardware, but I have no Atari right now. However if someone wants to have a go, then they might modify this test program I wrote over Christmas. PassTest.zip This test program was designed to answer if it is possible to read $FFF8 in bank 0, and $FFF9 in bank 1 when you are using F8 bankswitching. Over Cristmas I was able to test it on real hardware and found out that yes you can!! Providing that I made no logical errors in the programming, I see no reason why it couldn't be slightly altered to test bytes some bytes at $FFFA to $FFFF in either bank with $F8 bankswitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Nevermind...it was a false conclusion (it somehow slipped my mind that I used the vector space for a JMP address in a few programs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Okay, than a bad dump that Pole Position is. Sorry, I'm lost. Exactly which Pole Position dump is correct and which one isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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