_The Doctor__ Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 Totally not the same I don't really compare the two, just build from the ground up on either and be blissful in that they work very well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Ray Gillman said: Running an 8-bit BBS decades past seemed challenging until I tried BBS Express ST. That version seemed infinitely more reliable, convenient and never (very rarely) had downtime. Not suggesting the ST version was "better" - did it lack ATASCII fancy heading screens (I think so?) but the issues with 8-bit file table limits lend themselves to administration issues and space restricted libraries online. What are your thoughts on comparing BBS Express 8 bit to BBS Express ST? Well, I can't speak on running an 8-bit BBS simply because I never have. However, I've used BBS Express! ST since the early 90's and have always found it to be dependable and reliable. I've always also felt that it's scripting language is one of it's most powerful and useful features. There's no included ATASCII screens, at least not with the base archive/installation - at least I've never seen any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gillman Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 I remember the only reason I moved from Express ST to PC BBS software was to run The Green Dragon (If I am remembering the name correctly) which was (think still is) a fun little amusement park of online games for visitors to play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 5 hours ago, Ray Gillman said: I remember the only reason I moved from Express ST to PC BBS software was to run The Green Dragon (If I am remembering the name correctly) which was (think still is) a fun little amusement park of online games for visitors to play Green Dragon? Or Red Dragon? ... As in "Legend of the....." AKA LORD. Just curious because LORD is one of the defining PC BBS games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 10 hours ago, Ray Gillman said: Running an 8-bit BBS decades past seemed challenging until I tried BBS Express ST. That version seemed infinitely more reliable, convenient and never (very rarely) had downtime. Not suggesting the ST version was "better" - did it lack ATASCII fancy heading screens (I think so?) but the issues with 8-bit file table limits lend themselves to administration issues and space restricted libraries online. What are your thoughts on comparing BBS Express 8 bit to BBS Express ST? I've only owned 2 STs in my life and never ran a BBS on either. However my current BBS has been running on the Atari 8bit since 1984 (with a few diversions along the way such as Early 8-bit BBS programs like A.M.I.S. and F.o.R.e.M., FXL, FXE, which preceded Express as well as a 12 year hiatus running a PC BBS in Fidonet.) I have been running Express Pro 2.1a on the internet since 1999 but it currently runs on a PC using the Altirra emulator. PCs are easier and cheaper to replace than my precious Atari 8-bit hardware (most of which I sold in 2021.) The Express Pro software has never crashed on me. The PC(s) have... one lost hard drive and two power supplies. But I replaced the original BBSBOX PC last year with a (somewhat newer) PC and it is purring along nicely now. I also run a six node Synchronet PC BBS on the same box, but that one is not exposed to the internet (yet.) The Atari Express Pro BBS URL is listed below in this message... call today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gillman Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Tillek said: Green Dragon? Or Red Dragon? ... As in "Legend of the....." AKA LORD. Just curious because LORD is one of the defining PC BBS games. https://muds.fandom.com/wiki/Legend_of_the_Green_Dragon http://lotgd.net/home.php? Edited November 26, 2023 by Ray Gillman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gillman Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 I don't have the Express ST software any more (no ST nor the 3.5 inch disks that went with it) - is it possible to run BBS Express 8-bit version on Altirra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) Yes it is. And you can run an emulated BBS EXPRESS ST on an ST emulator as well. We don't have to flip chicken to get it done either :) Edited November 29, 2023 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopeyman06 Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Ray Gillman said: I don't have the Express ST software any more (no ST nor the 3.5 inch disks that went with it) - is it possible to run BBS Express 8-bit version on Altirra? Yes. You can run BBS Express on Altirra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopeyman06 Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 22 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: Yes it is. And you can run an emulated BBS EXPRESS ST on an ST emulator as well. We don't have to flip chicken to get it done either Really?? Which emulator? I've tried on Hatari. I've gotten it to run, but no communication in/out. Same thing with RATSoft on Hatari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) Emulated RS232 Serial communications in Hatari is designed to directly use a serial port on your PC. Communications parameters are set automatically upon the settings of the emulated machine. This means all you do is to set the communication parameters like baudrate from the emulated communications software. Hatari will do the rest and handle the serial input and output for you. Note that the “normal” RS232 port of Hatari is the one that is connected to the MFP chip of the selected system. This port is only wired on the ST, STE and TT machines, but not on the Falcon. To use serial port emulation in Falcon mode, you have to use the “SCC channel B” emulation instead. I've seen it run in STE mode. even midi has been driven by hatari... you can still use redirection under linux as well... Edited November 29, 2023 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 20 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: Emulated RS232 Serial communications in Hatari is designed to directly use a serial port on your PC. Communications parameters are set automatically upon the settings of the emulated machine. This means all you do is to set the communication parameters like baudrate from the emulated communications software. Hatari will do the rest and handle the serial input and output for you. Note that the “normal” RS232 port of Hatari is the one that is connected to the MFP chip of the selected system. This port is only wired on the ST, STE and TT machines, but not on the Falcon. To use serial port emulation in Falcon mode, you have to use the “SCC channel B” emulation instead. I've seen it run in STE mode. even midi has been driven by hatari... you can still use redirection under linux as well... I've never managed to get it to work in Windows, and my machine does have actual serial ports. I've also tried with ARAnyM and didn't fare much better. I've managed to get it to work in Linux... but by "work" there are some serious issues. 1) If someone hangs up on the BBS and another person connects, they'll take over where the other person left off (I consider this to be a deal breaker).. it doesn't seem to realize the connection has terminated. 2) Express wouldn't reset properly. It would get into a strange loop where it would start the time out, then instead of logging off, essentially "reset" the timer (thus, never really timing out). If someone just wants to play locally, that's should work fine. But otherwise, I gave up on it since I really had no personal interest in getting it to work anyway other than the frustration of not being able to get it to work (I'm not an emulation fan honestly). So if someone can figure it out, great! But I only know one person who actually pulled it off successfully without any issues and he made it clear he wasn't interested in sharing that knowledge. We can bring it up again Sunday if people want. There are some efforts to get some of these BBS programs using native telnet (STing) but authors keep disappearing. That's probably a better thing to wait for as that opens up ARAnyM as a good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 On 11/26/2023 at 12:17 AM, bf2k+ said: 23 hours ago, Ray Gillman said: is it possible to run BBS Express 8-bit version on Altirra? I have been running Express Pro 2.1a on the internet since 1999 but it currently runs on a PC using the Altirra emulator. From an earlier message... Before Altirra existed, I ran it on A800Win 2.5c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gillman Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 The real reason to run a BBS on old 8 bit hardware is - no fans. The fans are what eventually get clogged with dust and the bearings get sticky and the heat shuts the system down or melts the CPU. 8bits are also more resilient to EMP "sun spots" because the old hardware is not ultra-fine electronics which is why I can dig an old 800XL out after decades and it still works. Folks don't sing the praises of low tech advantages enough IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 I had to put a fan on my first MIO back in 86 or so to keep it from melting down while it ran 24/7 on the BBS... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gillman Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 On 12/5/2023 at 2:47 PM, bf2k+ said: I had to put a fan on my first MIO back in 86 or so to keep it from melting down while it ran 24/7 on the BBS... Multi IO. Good memories right there. When 10MB was a vast hard drive that could hold everything if you made enough subdirectories! Had to be SCSI (80 pins?) One problem was I bought a 20MB and think I wound up partitioning it into two 10MB because 16MB was all it could handle? Then my friend Jay bought my old 10MB for I think $50 and he went home and plugged it in backwards and fried it and I had to give him his money back. Hah! Good memories. Even the "bad stuff" seems like good fun in hindsight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 4 hours ago, Ray Gillman said: Multi IO. Good memories right there. Yep... two of my friends and I got MIOs when they first came out and we went to a techfest here in town one weekend and bought used 5MB full height ST-506 hard drives for $40 each and Adaptec 4000 bridge boards for them... and mine was the only harddrive of the three that worked... actually my first bridge board was a Xebec 1510 (or something; I forget)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnPolka Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 (edited) On 12/5/2023 at 12:47 PM, bf2k+ said: I had to put a fan on my first MIO back in 86 or so to keep it from melting down while it ran 24/7 on the BBS... Yep. I did the same thing. I kept a box fan on the MIO while it operated the Basement BBS 24/7. Back in 2017, when I unpacked my old MIO for the first time in years, I found a few strains of white fur in it. I am pretty sure that fur belonged to our old mascot, "The Basement Cat", which was notorious for climbing on top of the BBS' keyboard while someone was online. This would, of course, mess with the online user's BBS session. There is still an individual who, to this day, still thinks it was me messing with their BBS session while they were online. But what really happened was that I heard the chat bell going off, I saw the cat on the keyboard, who immediately jumped off when he saw me enter the room. When I broke into chat, this user proceeded to cuss me out. I told him it was the cat and he didn't believe me. Moving forward, I put a box onto of the Atari 800XL to protect the 800XL from the cat. That didn't stop the cat. I would still catch him on top of the box. At least he was no longer messing with users' BBS sessions. hahahaha For those who have not already seen this...there is a tribute page with some photos and nice ATASCII dedicated to the Basement Cat at http://basementbbs.ddns.net:7000/basement-cat.html -JP Edited December 14, 2023 by JohnPolka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnPolka Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 On 12/7/2023 at 11:29 AM, bf2k+ said: Yep... two of my friends and I got MIOs when they first came out and we went to a techfest here in town one weekend and bought used 5MB full height ST-506 hard drives for $40 each and Adaptec 4000 bridge boards for them... and mine was the only harddrive of the three that worked... actually my first bridge board was a Xebec 1510 (or something; I forget)... That's hilarious...the first hard drive I bought was a used 5MB hard drive. When it arrived, it included a diagnostic test print out. The print out mentioned a bunch of bad sectors. So, I called the company that sold it to me and they said it must have been sent to me by mistake. So, I returned it and they shipped me a Lapine 10 meg hard drive (Lapine was the brand name). That was the hard drive for my BBS for awhile. I then added a second hard drive sometime later. I think the second one was a 20MB hard drive. -JP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 8 hours ago, JohnPolka said: I am pretty sure that fur belonged to our old mascot, "The Basement Cat", which was notorious for climbing on top of the BBS' keyboard while someone was online. And now I know where your "cat" welcome screen comes from... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonlight_mile Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 I had the Supra 1o Meg and after the first crash I turned the drive so it was horizontal and put a little fan over the vent holes. Of course not knowing any better I had the fan blowing in. Man did those vent holes get dirty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcrow Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 Our neighbor operated the (Atari) Boise Users Group BBS. We had a member who worked for AT&T and would bring his computer in at night and dial out to all the BBSes he could find, so we maintained a fairly comprehensive and accurate list of all the BBSes in the US at the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) Figured since this is the last one of the year (and kinda short notice) I'd post in a few more places.... Just your regular Atari BBS Community Zoom Meet Reminder... sorry for the late reminder. As always, we meet on the first Sunday and third Friday of every month... the next meeting is tonight, Friday, December 15th at 8pm Eastern. No real agenda for this since my work project is in it's final stages, but those tend to be the most fun! We will be discussing the release of the newest version of AT_Connect III, which will be totally worth it! The link ... https://tinyurl.com/abgc-friday23 We're also having a working session with Pab on Sunday December 17th at 3pm to help someone with AtariLink II. If anyone is interested, please feel free to attend! We will likely keep this only as long as it needs to be to solve the problem and will be keeping it on topic since it's a working session, but if you've been interested in the AtariLink BBS, this is your chance to work with the author on issues regarding getting it set up. Working session link.... https://tinyurl.com/AtariLink-WS And our first meeting of the new year will be Sunday, January 7th of 2024 at 3pm Eastern. Reminder and the new link will go out prior to that. Edited December 15, 2023 by Tillek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnPolka Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 21 hours ago, pcrow said: Our neighbor operated the (Atari) Boise Users Group BBS. We had a member who worked for AT&T and would bring his computer in at night and dial out to all the BBSes he could find, so we maintained a fairly comprehensive and accurate list of all the BBSes in the US at the time. Very cool! I asked my step dad who also worked for AT&T and he said that employees back then had a set amount of free long distance minutes per month. What a blast to call all those BBSs back then, eh? You don't still have any of these BBS lists, do you? -JP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcrow Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 9 hours ago, JohnPolka said: Very cool! I asked my step dad who also worked for AT&T and he said that employees back then had a set amount of free long distance minutes per month. What a blast to call all those BBSs back then, eh? You don't still have any of these BBS lists, do you? No, I didn't even get a modem until '85 or so. I think the deal with the AT&T guy was that he did it at work, not from home, so there was no tracking. I'm not sure what his job was, but apparently he had to be there at night when nobody else was around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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