+wood_jl Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I hope this thread doesn't discourage kjmann, and others who sell Atari stuff. Even though I've never bought anything from him (yet), I might. It's pretty nice to have people still selling Atari stuff, as the 21st century wears on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 13 User(s) are reading this topic5 members, 7 guests, 1 anonymous users +sloopy, Mirage, xeen, Rybags, +kjmann and no comments yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Kjmann sells Nosty's "Quad" without permission. Nosty says: I'm confused. I don't believe that Kjmann is "simply pirate". He trades Atari stuff many many years. So I think this is rather a little misunderstanding. I wrote pm to Kjmann and I hope he explain this mistake. and You like this: I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing, and I don't see anything wrong with what KJMANN is doing, either. I suppose if a particular copyright owner wanted to complain, I'd understand, but I don't think there are; people who complain are NOT the copyright owners, just complainers. I don't see how selling 30-year-old games (that have no relation whatsoever to the current market) can have any impact on anything, except maybe create some fun for someone who would otherwise never get to play. so, I think there is something wrong is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I'm not making a profit. For example, after buying an A800 on eBay for $40, adding the $20 multi-cart, another $40 for the joysticks, and $10 for the cable, you can see it comes to $110. (At least I'm getting the joysticks and carts for cheaper now that I buy them in quantity.) If I have to buy a new keyboard or some other component, I kick up the price a bit. As you point out (with eBay fees and such), it's a losing proposition. That's why it's a hobby rather than a business. That's wrong thinking. You use copyrighted content to aid the selling of your other stuff. So it's a commercial infringement anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 That's wrong thinking. You use copyrighted content to aid the selling of your other stuff. So it's a commercial infringement anyways. Not only you are an expert for graphics, musics and programming but for legal issues, too. Wow, I have to admit you must be something like a genious! We should be glad to have you here on AtariAge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 " Not only you are an expert for graphics, musics and programming but for legal issues, too. Wow, I have to admit you must be something like a genious! We should be glad to have you here on AtariAge!...", the shadow of emkay says... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 By the way, I'm just curious about facts, not about most of the subjective comments posted here. Just to keep it clean & clear. If too many opinions e.a. are posted here, we cannot obtain a decent objective view on what's actually going on with kjmann's business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Personally, I think if someone is an active member of the community then they should be consulted and their wishes respected before using their work in another product unless they've licensed in a way that gives up restrictions on its use. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorsten Günther Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 That's wrong thinking. You use copyrighted content to aid the selling of your other stuff. So it's a commercial infringement anyways. Not only you are an expert for graphics, musics and programming but for legal issues, too. You needn't be an expert to know that - it's common knowledge. One mustn't even copy a vinyl LP to a CD-R and sell this on eBay as a bundle to get higher bids. But I see a moral difference here: Dan(i) Bunten sadly is dead, and M.U.L.E. is Abandonware (i.e. it is not commercially profitable any more for Electronic Arts and hasn't been for a very long time), so I can't see a victim here. Quad OTOH was written by an active member of the Atari community, and although it is available for free, one should feel morally obliged to ask Nosty for his OK and/or offer him a share of the profits made on cartridges with his content (same goes for kjmann's Yoomp!, etc. carts - BTW: GR8 should really produce a second batch of the original cart). Thorsten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 " Not only you are an expert for graphics, musics and programming but for legal issues, too. Wow, I have to admit you must be something like a genious! We should be glad to have you here on AtariAge!...", the shadow of emkay says... ...the shadow of R4ngerM4n replies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 ...the shadow of R4ngerM4n replies... ...the copying machine says... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 You needn't be an expert to know that - it's common knowledge. International copyright law is common knowledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarrj Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Kjmann's gear are not pirate copies, they are loving reproductions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 ...Not only you are an expert for graphics, musics and programming but for legal issues, too. You needn't be an expert to know that - it's common knowledge.... Hi Thorsten, don't put your energy in Rangerdog There's a reason for him to make these comments to emkay. He's a fan of emkay so he has a rather subjective reason for his replies. ...International copyright law is common knowledge? Maybe not for dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 @analmux: are you emkay's mom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+poobah Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 But I see a moral difference here: Dan(i) Bunten sadly is dead, and M.U.L.E. is Abandonware (i.e. it is not commercially profitable any more for Electronic Arts and hasn't been for a very long time), so I can't see a victim here. Thorsten No, No, No..... A thousand times, NO! Repeat after me "There is no such thing as abandonware". M.U.L.E is copyrighted, and will continue to be be long after we are dead. Just because the owner hasn't done anything with it recently doesn't mean it is 'abandoned'. Yes it is crappy, yes it is stupid, and yes, it is the law. The copyright owner could wake up tomorrow and sue you into oblivion. Stop perpetuating the abandonware BS. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 But I see a moral difference here: Dan(i) Bunten sadly is dead, and M.U.L.E. is Abandonware (i.e. it is not commercially profitable any more for Electronic Arts and hasn't been for a very long time), so I can't see a victim here. Thorsten No, No, No..... A thousand times, NO! Repeat after me "There is no such thing as abandonware". M.U.L.E is copyrighted, and will continue to be be long after we are dead. Just because the owner hasn't done anything with it recently doesn't mean it is 'abandoned'. Yes it is crappy, yes it is stupid, and yes, it is the law. The copyright owner could wake up tomorrow and sue you into oblivion. Stop perpetuating the abandonware BS. All true and even Space Harrier as a free download is illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Quad OTOH was written by an active member of the Atari community, and although it is available for free, one should feel morally obliged to ask Nosty for his OK and/or offer him a share of the profits made on cartridges with his content (same goes for kjmann's Yoomp!, etc. carts - BTW: GR8 should really produce a second batch of the original cart). I don't know what's gone on behind the scenes, but that statement seems to characterise common sense and good manners to me. If (when) I release free software intended for cartridge and ever discover it's being sold as a retail package without my prior consent, problems will ensue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 But I see a moral difference here: Dan(i) Bunten sadly is dead, and M.U.L.E. is Abandonware (i.e. it is not commercially profitable any more for Electronic Arts and hasn't been for a very long time), so I can't see a victim here. Thorsten No, No, No..... A thousand times, NO! Repeat after me "There is no such thing as abandonware". M.U.L.E is copyrighted, and will continue to be be long after we are dead. Just because the owner hasn't done anything with it recently doesn't mean it is 'abandoned'. Yes it is crappy, yes it is stupid, and yes, it is the law. The copyright owner could wake up tomorrow and sue you into oblivion. Stop perpetuating the abandonware BS. All true and even Space Harrier as a free download is illegal. yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 M.U.L.E is copyrighted, and will continue to be be long after we are dead. Just because the owner hasn't done anything with it recently doesn't mean it is 'abandoned'. Yes it is crappy, yes it is stupid, and yes, it is the law. The copyright owner could wake up tomorrow and sue you into oblivion. Stop perpetuating the abandonware BS. The question is, whether the copyright owner takes care of it or not. Possibly a Cart with some A8 version of a game doesn't awake their greed of profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 MK.but that was not the question... M.U.L.E. belongs to EA probably wether they take care or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 M.U.L.E. belongs to EA probably wether they take care or not... Ofcourse. There are two sides on the medal. One is the copyright infringement The other side is the threshold value, causing the copyright owner to get active. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qix_maniac Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) I have an "ironman" stopwatch. This topic will reappear in 3 months. can't wait! I agree and disagree. There are some reproduction cartridges I'd love to get my hands on. Mule being one of them ...but I really really want Nir's Montezuma & Vanguard in the parkerbrothers case! I'm a cartridge collector and of course prefer originals and prototypes but those 2 by Nir are my tops...if ya got them and want to sell or trade please let me know! Edited August 4, 2011 by qix_maniac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Look's like Sal's taken it down from his site promptly, which I gather means the issue is closed as far as Nosty is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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