Simius Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 Is it possible to implement attached Altirra PAL and NTSC palettes instead of Atari800Win palettes? Nowadays Altirra is the best A8 emulator and I would like that my real hardware matches its palettes. No, it's not possible. Too much saturation, not to mention of a copyrigts. Palettes I attached aren't Atari800Win palettes. Everything they have to do with Atari800Win is an extension, which can be just as well .pal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Since I wasn't having any luck getting the component output to work on my Element LCD TV, I picked up an Insiginia NS-LCD26-09 from a GoodWill. Problem is this TV also doesn't work with Sophia's component output either, only rendering a black screen (same as what the Element did). So that means out of my three component capable monitors, only one will actually work with Sophia. Those aren't very good odds. What I am seeing though, is that the TV does lock onto a signal, but that the image remains black. So besides the palette changes, it looks like something needs to change in the component output aspect as well. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Z Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) I also tried to use the component inputs on a newer TV I purchased from Target called the 'element' and although the HDMI input worked flawlessly, the component coming from Sophia only rendered a black screen, and if I removed the interlace jumper it immediately went to a blue screen with 'No Signal' displayed. Putting the interlace jumper back once again rendered a black screen. - Michael I threw a cable together just now and hooked it up to my kitchen tv -- it was a no go - "unsupported format". On to the living room where my Insignia 42" worked with component/interlace only. I see some vertical bands in the picture though and hopefully that will improve with a better built cable. I don't have the shielding on it either -- would that make a difference? Since I wasn't having any luck getting the component output to work on my Element LCD TV, I picked up an Insiginia NS-LCD26-09 from a GoodWill. Problem is this TV also doesn't work with Sophia's component output either, only rendering a black screen (same as what the Element did). So that means out of my three component capable monitors, only one will actually work with Sophia. Those aren't very good odds. What I am seeing though, is that the TV does lock onto a signal, but that the image remains black. So besides the palette changes, it looks like something needs to change in the component output aspect as well. - Michael I don't have one of these boards, but I have some troubleshooting ideas maybe. First of all, it's of course widely known that the Atari produces timing that is just a little bit off from what it should be (228 color clocks/line instead of 227.5, 262 line progressive picture rather than 262.5/field interlaced). So obviously this could be causing TV's to detect the mode wrong and thing there is something weird going on and reject it. That said, there may be a way to test if the TV is OK with the weird Atari timing: What happens if you attach the atari's normal composite or luma lead (I mean the DIN-5 ones) to the Y input on the TV's component input? Does it sync up? show a picture? It would not be the first time I have seen digital TVs/monitors/projectors have different timing constraints for different inputs, so try this even if the normal composite works using a composite jack on the TV. Edited April 13, 2017 by Joey Z 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 What happens if you attach the atari's normal composite or luma lead (I mean the DIN-5 ones) to the Y input on the TV's component input? Does it sync up? show a picture? Hi Joey Using the composite out of Bryan's latest UAV into the component Y input does the same thing, acting like something is there, but picture stays black. And what I mean by it "acting like something is there", is that without any signal the TV puts up a a little sign saying NO SIGNAL, but if you have some kind of signal that it sort of likes that sign goes away. It's unfortunate that this GTIA-RGB/Component board still has the same limitations pertaining to the Atari's weird timing. Because it makes this such a hit or miss proposition to have it work on whatever TV you may happen to own. Like I said I struck out 2 out of 3 times, and was really hoping that this Insignia TV would be the ticket. Oh well - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Z Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Hi Joey Using the composite out of Bryan's latest UAV into the component Y input does the same thing, acting like something is there, but picture stays black. And what I mean by it "acting like something is there", is that without any signal the TV puts up a a little sign saying NO SIGNAL, but if you have some kind of signal that it sort of likes that sign goes away. It's unfortunate that this GTIA-RGB/Component board still has the same limitations pertaining to the Atari's weird timing. Because it makes this such a hit or miss proposition to have it work on whatever TV you may happen to own. Like I said I struck out 2 out of 3 times, and was really hoping that this Insignia TV would be the ticket. Oh well - Michael Well, on the bright side this may give a way to test compatibility of a particular TV *before* you buy the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 Update: a small amount of SECAM board already available. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 So besides the palette changes, it looks like something needs to change in the component output aspect as well. Unfortunately, little can be done with it. There is two ways to generate more compliant sync - design a whole new ANTIC or stop the system clock for 228 color cycles each two frames, causing other problems. I have four TVs at home (1xSony and 3xSamsung) and each one works fine with Sophia component output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Unfortunately, little can be done with it. There is two ways to generate more compliant sync - design a whole new ANTIC or stop the system clock for 228 color cycles each two frames, causing other problems. I have four TVs at home (1xSony and 3xSamsung) and each one works fine with Sophia component output. Yeah I realize that after Joey's suggested test. Wow it looks like TV's over in Poland are more forgiving of the Atari's odd timing, or perhaps it has something to do with PAL vs NTSC on the Atari side of things. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 I have tested the component output in both - NTSC and PAL systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 I have tested the component output in both - NTSC and PAL systems. Then I guess it comes down to poor luck on my part. However I did notice that you said you had 3 Samsung TV's that worked, and Samsung is the only brand I have that worked. So perhaps all Samsung's have a good chance of doing so. If I come across another one I'll test out my theory. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 My plan is a little unusual, but another alternative. I don't plan to use the component RGB directly into my 22" Upstar HDTV/monitor that serves my PC and Atari. Instead, I'll run the output of Sophia through an on-hand component to S-Video converter and feed the output into my All-in-Wonder input. That way, I'll lose a little resolution, but I'll gain the resizable window and color controls of the AIW. Of course, we'll have to see how that works out -- the Sophia is in the mail. What I should not lose is the extra high-rez color, and that is what I'm interested in anyway. To me, the added resolution is not a significant advantage over the UAV board, but that extra color makes it special. -Larry 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 Update: rev.A pinout and jumpers, VSYNC output removed from rev.B. Sophia_RevA_Settings.pdf Sophia_RevB_Settings.pdf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Update: rev.A pinout and jumpers, VSYNC output removed from rev.B. ??? Why are people liking this? Have I missed something that explains what rev.A and rev.B are about? And why was VSYNC removed? Kind of confused over here. - Michael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMontezuma Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Update: rev.A pinout and jumpers, VSYNC output removed from rev.B. 1) As far as I understand "VSYNC" was not supposed to be wired anyway, am I right? 2) Does this info apply only to new boards (which your are possibly going to produce)? 3) Will you publish please the *.pof programming file containing all bug fixes so far? I'm pretty sure that it would greatly improve testing if other people had a chance to do it in parallel... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbotkinneydude Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Update: a small amount of SECAM board already available. Hi Simius! Does the SECAM version of SOPHIA fix the limited color palette of the SECAM systems? I have many, many SECAM systems (800XLF-Rose to 130XE to XEGS) who could use such a board. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 ??? Why are people liking this? Have I missed something that explains what rev.A and rev.B are about? And why was VSYNC removed? Kind of confused over here. - Michael Rev.A is a prototype, but fully operational board. A several people have it. VSYNC is removed because: 1) it's not essential; 2) didn't fit in CPLD after implementing both PAL/NTSC palettes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 Hi Simius! Does the SECAM version of SOPHIA fix the limited color palette of the SECAM systems? I have many, many SECAM systems (800XLF-Rose to 130XE to XEGS) who could use such a board. Thank you. Yes, SECAM version of Sophia has also 16 luminance levels like PAL/NTCS versions. Can be made with NTSC or PAL palette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMontezuma Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Rev.A is a prototype, but fully operational board. A several people have it. VSYNC is removed because: 1) it's not essential; 2) didn't fit in CPLD after implementing both PAL/NTSC palettes. VSYNC removal -> no rewiring needed CPLD changes -> delivered devices will be affected if updated Is it correct? @Simius Would you be so kind and answer my last question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1) As far as I understand "VSYNC" was not supposed to be wired anyway, am I right? 2) Does this info apply only to new boards (which your are possibly going to produce)? 3) Will you publish please the *.pof programming file containing all bug fixes so far? I'm pretty sure that it would greatly improve testing if other people had a chance to do it in parallel... I have a board from the first preorder which I'm assuming is rev.A hardware. So I am very curious what the answer for question 2 will be. To expand on this... I now have the means to reprogram my board and would like to do so if this will be possible on my Rev.A board, and curious if that will allow it to be the same as what is being referred to as rev.B. Or if that isn't possible, will there be a fix for rev.A boards offered as well? And in reference to question 3, will you be sharing the update code, or is this considered proprietary? If this is the case, will I be able to send my board back to you to get updated? - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMontezuma Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Hi Michael, I'm pretty sure that you have the revision B (as I do). Look at the location of the jumpers to identify the board revision: Rev.A Rev.B With all respect to the designer, I would really appreciate to hear about a recovery plan, since there are dozens of buggy devices delivered to the users... Regards Marcin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Hi Michael, I'm pretty sure that you have the revision B (as I do). Look at the location of the jumpers to identify the board revision: Rev.A rev_a.JPG Rev.B rev_b.JPG With all respect to the designer, I would really appreciate to hear about a recovery plan, since there are dozens of buggy devices delivered to the users... Regards Marcin Hi Marcin, Yep I do have a rev.B board Thanks for clearing that up. I too am hoping that Simius will upload the new firmware for those like myself that have the means to reprogram the chip (actaully the USB Blaster programmer was very cheap). - Michael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ely Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Yeah I'd really like to get the colour palette looking correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 With all respect to the designer, I would really appreciate to hear about a recovery plan, since there are dozens of buggy devices delivered to the users... There is no special plan. You can reprogram the board yourself or you can ship the board for reprogram. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 There is no special plan. You can reprogram the board yourself or you can ship the board for reprogram. I have a programmer, so it would make sense to reprogram it myself. Only problem is I need the firmware to do that ... can you provide a download? Thank you, - Michael 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 No commercial use is allowed. Sophia_B_core_1_2.zip 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.