Super Nintendo Classic Edition - SNES Mini thread

[+thanatos]

If it doesn't get cancelled, I (may have) scored an EU version from Amazon France today, they were available to order for at least 2 hours.

[Tanooki]

I hope for your sake it works out just so you don't have to deal with the garbage of trying to scoop one up when they hit or in the panic after as more people try and snag them for an evil scalping.

[atarilovesyou]

 

Because they're not taunting you, they're disregarding you. If Nintendo sent you an e-mail about the SNES Mini, it's not because they actually expect you to purchase it yourself, they just want you to spread the word about it, through social media and whatnot (which is exactly what you did above) so that they're absolutely sure that the dismal number of units they will produce will find a buyer, and that all their stocks will sell out in a manner of minutes. Having such a toy console sell out quickly is good for Nintendo's reputation among investors and other assorted "money people" who have a stake in the company. Whether you personally score a SNES Mini or not is the least of their concerns.

 

I'm sure the people here could tell all kinds of stories about how Nintendo plays by its own rules and doesn't care if their own fan base disagrees with their business decisions, but let me give you at least one example: Yesterday, just out of curiosity, I investigated whether GBA games are available on the 3DS Virtual Console. It turns out that they are not, but a few GBA titles were available a few years ago. Turns out that at a time when the 3DS wasn't selling so well, they offered a dozen or so GBA titles, which were later removed from their list of downloadable games (I got this info from a Youtube video I stumbled upon). I would gladly give Nintendo money right now so I could legally download and install Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero Mission on my 2DS, but that ain't gonna happen, because to Nintendo, I don't really count as a customer. They'd rather try to persuade me to spend my money on other 2DS/3DS games which I don't care about. 'Cause that's just how they think, and how they operate.

 

 

People do realize that Nintendo is a company, and that a company's sole purpose is to maximize profit, right?

 

Why do so many people seem to think that a company owes them something? I'm not picking on you pixelboy, but this comment just makes it sound so very 'personal'. How Nintendo 'disregards' possible customers, or not allowing 'customers who don't count' download games that at one point were available. By all means, if you don't like the way Nintendo does business, don't support, but do you really think that a viable company is going to allow potential lost revenue for no reason? It's a business. Show me one entertainment business that doesn't do business that way and I'll show you a failed company.

 

They want people to spend money, period. And we all know what Nintendo is like. What they're doing, however, apparently is working just fine for business. Fair enough. What's the problem again? Those who really want this item will get it, one way or another.

[Tanooki]

I guess I think where the confusion kicks in is that people see a console and with all those games see a good deal, and Nintendo sees just a marketing tool for the season which in turn will get people craving the stuff then can peddle for $8/each as downloads on whatever virtual console you like which ultimately if you bought maybe 5 or so of them (given expenses on the console) probably would make them more.

[atarilovesyou]

I guess I think where the confusion kicks in is that people see a console and with all those games see a good deal, and Nintendo sees just a marketing tool for the season which in turn will get people craving the stuff then can peddle for $8/each as downloads on whatever virtual console you like which ultimately if you bought maybe 5 or so of them (given expenses on the console) probably would make them more.

 

And that's exactly what Nintendo 'should' be seeing these mini releases as: ways to maximize profit. We might not like it as fans...I know I don't. But I can hardly blame a company like them for doing it. I've learned this a while back about companies who have anything to do with my product: you're gonna be let down, but you have to understand it's a business. I think Lego is about the only company I know who go the extra mile in order to satiate what their fans really want, but...it's also very expensive. But people are willing to pay the premium, by and large. I know it's tough to compare the two companies in a way, but that's the way I see it. Personally? I'd love for them to crank out enough minis so that EVERYBODY gets one. That would benefit me, though...not Nintendo's long-range business plan.

[Pixelboy]

 

People do realize that Nintendo is a company, and that a company's sole purpose is to maximize profit, right?

 

Why do so many people seem to think that a company owes them something? I'm not picking on you pixelboy, but this comment just makes it sound so very 'personal'. How Nintendo 'disregards' possible customers, or not allowing 'customers who don't count' download games that at one point were available. By all means, if you don't like the way Nintendo does business, don't support, but do you really think that a viable company is going to allow potential lost revenue for no reason? It's a business. Show me one entertainment business that doesn't do business that way and I'll show you a failed company.

 

They want people to spend money, period. And we all know what Nintendo is like. What they're doing, however, apparently is working just fine for business. Fair enough. What's the problem again? Those who really want this item will get it, one way or another.

 

Do you see the problem with your argument? How can a company maximize its profits by NOT putting its products in the hands of those who want them? I was talking to my gym instructor yesterday evening, and he was expressing the exact same frustration, because he really wants a Supes-NES Mini, but he doesn't expect he will ever find one to buy at a reasonable price.

 

If we were talking about a temporary minor shortage, where something like 10-15% of potential customers couldn't get their hands on a unit at retail price for a certain period of time after its launch, then I would concede to your argument, but that's not what's happening here. Not only are people being left out in the cold (sometimes literally, when they show up at a store many hours before opening time and walk away empty-handed) but we all know that Nintendo will suddenly discontinue production of this unit instead of working to meet the actual demand.

 

Also, let's not forget that corporate ego is a rather big part of this equation. If they produce enough units to meet the demand, and the profits they make with that overshadow the sales of their "current" products (3DS and Switch) then that hurts their image, because it looks like their past products are more interesting to their fan base than their current products. Which is silly when you think about it, but that's what you get as corporate ego with a company that insists on always playing it safe.

 

 

I guess I think where the confusion kicks in is that people see a console and with all those games see a good deal, and Nintendo sees just a marketing tool for the season which in turn will get people craving the stuff then can peddle for $8/each as downloads on whatever virtual console you like which ultimately if you bought maybe 5 or so of them (given expenses on the console) probably would make them more.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. But I'd be curious to know if that strategy really works out for Nintendo in the long run. With all the money and effort they invest into a physical unit just to create more interest in Virtual Console games, couldn't they generate just as much interest (and profits) just by lowering the prices on their download services, at least for a certain period of time?

[Atariboy]

Another criticism that I haven't seen voiced is the absence of SuperNes games pre-loaded on their upcoming Super Nintendo themed New 3DS XL, which is being released to help cash-in on the buzz surrounding this new plug and play. In my eyes, it should come preloaded with every one of these games that's also available on the 3DS Virtual Console (Nealy 2/3's of the lineup is available to download on the 3DS today)..

 

Seems crazy to sell a new system with a classic theme, and not even include the software to complement it with. But at least this one makes business sense, I suppose. Doesn't need any pre-installed games to sell every unit they'll have to sell, and most people will download at least a couple of games at $8 a pop.

 

It still stinks though.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Atariboy

[NE146]

Seems crazy to sell a new system with a classic theme, and not even include the software to complement it with.

 

Oh they've never done that.. we all know that. Heck I'd be surprised if they DID.. although I wouldn't complain of course

 

[Flojomojo]

Do you see the problem with your argument? How can a company maximize its profits by NOT putting its products in the hands of those who want them?

 

A low-margin product, containing hundreds of hours of "deep" games, that could suck up your audience's attention for a year or more?

 

A product that gets them tons of free publicity, whether it sells through or sells out?

 

I can totally see how Nintendo doesn't need to care about Pixelboy's negative feelings, when the upsides for Nintendo are so strong. They can always sell you a Nintendo Switch or 3DS sometime in the future, and the eShop never runs out of stock.

 

The Powerball lottery gets a lot of attention, too. Only one person goes home rich. The marketing doesn't focus on where the revenue goes, because that's not as interesting an story. It doesn't go to the ticket buyers. The lottery doesn't exist to make "customers" happy.

 

It's not about you.

[+GoldenWheels]

 

A low-margin product, containing hundreds of hours of "deep" games, that could suck up your audience's attention for a year or more?

 

Could, but it almost certainly won't I'd say. My guess would be 90% of these will be dust collectors within the first year. Most casual people who dip their toe in here won't come anywhere close to finishing Zelda or unlocking every hidden level in Mario and we all know it. They'll turn it on a few times, have some fun, and then it will become just another piece of plastic in the living room.

 

The people who will get into it balls deep are die hards who will likely buy anything Big N they wanted anyway.

 

(How "low" is the margin on this thing anyway?)

[Flojomojo]

(How "low" is the margin on this thing anyway?)

 

I have no clue except that the NES Classic was supposed to sell for $60, before scalpers got to it. After packaging and shipping, that's not much for materials. It's a self-contained thing, so it can't make its money back in software in a "give away the razor, sell the blades" way that a typical console does.

 

Also, they say stuff like this.

 

How Does Nintendo Feel About the Emergence of Video Game Emulators?

The introduction of emulators created to play illegally copied Nintendo software represents the greatest threat to date to the intellectual property rights of video game developers. As is the case with any business or industry, when its products become available for free, the revenue stream supporting that industry is threatened. Such emulators have the potential to significantly damage a worldwide entertainment software industry which generates over $15 billion annually, and tens of thousands of jobs.

 

What Does Nintendo Think of the Argument that Emulators are Actually Good for Nintendo Because it Promotes the Nintendo Brand to PC Users and Leads to More Sales?

Distribution of an emulator developed to play illegally copied Nintendo software hurts Nintendo's goodwill, the millions of dollars invested in research & development and marketing by Nintendo and its licensees. Substantial damages are caused to Nintendo and its licensees. It is irrelevant whether or not someone profits from the distribution of an emulator. The emulator promotes the play of illegal ROMs , NOT authentic games. Thus, not only does it not lead to more sales, it has the opposite effect and purpose.

 

How Come Nintendo Does Not Take Steps Towards Legitimizing Nintendo Emulators?

Emulators developed to play illegally copied Nintendo software promote piracy. That's like asking why doesn't Nintendo legitimize piracy. It doesn't make any business sense. It's that simple and not open to debate.

 

People Making Nintendo Emulators and Nintendo ROMs are Helping Publishers by Making Old Games Available that are No Longer Being Sold by the Copyright Owner. This Does Not Hurt Anyone and Allows Gamers to Play Old Favorites. What's the Problem?

The problem is that it's illegal. Copyrights and trademarks of games are corporate assets. If these vintage titles are available far and wide, it undermines the value of this intellectual property and adversely affects the right owner. In addition, the assumption that the games involved are vintage or nostalgia games is incorrect. Nintendo is famous for bringing back to life its popular characters for its newer systems, for example, Mario and Donkey Kong have enjoyed their adventures on all Nintendo platforms, going from coin-op machines to our latest hardware platforms. As a copyright owner, and creator of such famous characters, only Nintendo has the right to benefit from such valuable assets.

Putting aside the fact that according to Nintendo, emulators are terrible, except when Nintendo does it, that's OK ... I believe they want to protect their properties from unnecessary dilution of their brand. If something is devalued by being in a big bundle with unlimited distribution, that makes it hard for them to sell new things at $60 a pop.

 

Contrast this with Atari and Sega, who have little to lose and something to gain by shoveling everything they have into their AtGames reproduction consoles, since they're not making much new stuff that will sell as well.

[Flojomojo]

Could, but it almost certainly won't I'd say. My guess would be 90% of these will be dust collectors within the first year. Most casual people who dip their toe in here won't come anywhere close to finishing Zelda or unlocking every hidden level in Mario and we all know it. They'll turn it on a few times, have some fun, and then it will become just another piece of plastic in the living room.

That's true of most game consoles and toys, don't you think? Only us obsessives here on AtariAge think about the toys of decades past.

 

Let's think of it another way: if you already have a bundle of 20 SNES games in an easy-to-use format, how likely are you to buy them all over again on a different platform? How about the average casual person for whom it's a big ask to get them to buy ONCE?

 

I'm honestly conflicted about the whole Mini console thing. I don't need one AT ALL, as I have the originals (which are deep in storage), Virtual Console versions (which I occasionally dabble in) and emulation (which is arguably most convenient of all). I'm the last person who should have one of these things. But if I see one at retail, at list price, and can buy one without shenanigans, I would.

 

If it slips by me, no sour grapes here.

[+GoldenWheels]

That's true of most game consoles and toys, don't you think? Only us obsessives here on AtariAge think about the toys of decades past.

 

Let's think of it another way: if you already have a bundle of 20 SNES games in an easy-to-use format, how likely are you to buy them all over again on a different platform? How about the average casual person for whom it's a big ask to get them to buy ONCE?

 

I'm honestly conflicted about the whole Mini console thing. I don't need one AT ALL, as I have the originals (which are deep in storage), Virtual Console versions (which I occasionally dabble in) and emulation (which is arguably most convenient of all). I'm the last person who should have one of these things. But if I see one at retail, at list price, and can buy one without shenanigans, I would.

 

If it slips by me, no sour grapes here.

I do think most are like that. And I actually give this one more potential longevity than most!

 

So far as buying again...this isn't exactly Nintendo's first bite at the apple re-selling the same games (well, most of these games anyway) so I don't know where it will go bad and stop working. I do wonder if there is an endpoint where people say no more, but then, there are kids who never experienced these games at the time, who feel like they are worth playing now. Maybe that keeps happening and Nintendo gets a new class of retro game players every few years? I dunno.

[+GoldenWheels]

 

I have no clue except that the NES Classic was supposed to sell for $60, before scalpers got to it. After packaging and shipping, that's not much for materials. It's a self-contained thing, so it can't make its money back in software in a "give away the razor, sell the blades" way that a typical console does.

 

Also, they say stuff like this.

 

Putting aside the fact that according to Nintendo, emulators are terrible, except when Nintendo does it, that's OK ... I believe they want to protect their properties from unnecessary dilution of their brand. If something is devalued by being in a big bundle with unlimited distribution, that makes it hard for them to sell new things at $60 a pop.

 

Contrast this with Atari and Sega, who have little to lose and something to gain by shoveling everything they have into their AtGames reproduction consoles, since they're not making much new stuff that will sell as well.

Well it was kind of a passive aggressive question on my part I guess, my point being no one has a clue how "low" the margin is as no one knows the actual costs. So I just don't know why it's being assumed Nintendo isn't making very good money on these.

 

Devauling software to me is an interesting discussion...I'd argue it's not the software you're paying for anyway (as of course a savvy person can get the software and emulator for free). It's the box with a Nintendo logo, the easy connection to the living room TV, the browsing software. For some it's the collecting angle. These aren't things free roms devalue. I know the computer handy here are often aghast that people think setting up an emulator is hard but...normal people just DON'T want to deal with it.

 

You're right they can't sell more software in the normal model but then this had nowhere near the cost overhead of designing a truly new system. So it's kind of apples to oranges. They obviously didn't LOSE money selling these as some companies do with a big new system.

[Flojomojo]

Well it was kind of a passive aggressive question on my part I guess, my point being no one has a clue how "low" the margin is as no one knows the actual costs. So I just don't know why it's being assumed Nintendo isn't making very good money on these.

 

I also assume Nintendo knows what it's doing, and that this was a deliberate decision. It annoys me when people say, "Nintendo must hate money."

 

This blog post tries to list some possible reasons for the NES Classic shortages. It's on (yuck) Forbes, so I'll quote it in full, minus the pictures. We already know that a SNES Classic is coming, so these numbers are obviously out of whack. I still think #6 and #8 make the most sense.

 

1. Nintendo Is About To Release The Switch Virtual Console

The idea here is that Nintendo is worried about the NES Classic Edition cannibalizing sales from the per-game Virtual Console, which may be arriving soon on the Switch. While Nintendo has been notoriously prone to fears about cannibalization, this would be sort of a new level for them, and I’m not sure I buy it. I just don’t think they would discontinue a successful product that has 30 NES games when Virtual Console has hundreds of games, not just from the NES but almost every past Nintendo system to date. I can’t see this being a valid reason to pull the product.

Plausibility: 2/10

2. A SNES Classic Edition Is Coming

It goes without saying that Nintendo is probably planning another go at this concept with a SNES Classic Edition given how well the NES performed. But is that’s what’s going on right now? I’m not so sure. It would be really, really rushed to turn around and come out with an SNES Classic when the NES Classic is still selling so well, or if it is coming, they could at least keep selling the NES up until the holiday season when the SNES might launch. Still, though an SNES is probably coming someday, I don’t think that’s what’s happening right now.

Plausibility 3/10

3. Nintendo Is Regrouping For The Holiday

Rather than making a few NES systems and having them sell out instantly every time they’re given to retailers in tiny little chunks, I can see Nintendo maybe wanting to stop for a while and play catch up, preparing for a grand re-release of the NES Classic Edition this holiday, only this time, they’ve taken the time to build up enough stock where it won’t be sold out everywhere all the time with massive production shortages. If people want the system this badly now (and they still do, judging by the reaction to the system being discontinued), they will probably still want to pick one up this holiday, and Nintendo may be altering their schedule to prepare for a big push then, rather than this trickle release right now.

Plausibility: 9/10

4. Nintendo Hates The NES Classic Being Hacked

Given that the NES Classic is a relatively simple piece of technology, hackers have gone to town with the system, allowing it to play many, many more games than it was ever supposed to (including SEGA games). Nintendo hates hackers, more so than most companies, so I’ve heard that they simply are stopping production because they don’t like how the system is being abused. This sounds goofy, but this is Nintendo we’re talking about, a company who greenlit the idea of removing story mode cutscenes from Smash Bros. because people were putting them on YouTube. I’m not going to totallyrule it out.

Plausibility: 4/10

5. Nintendo’s Margin On The NES Classic Is Too Slim To Be Worthwhile

Hardware usually has some pretty thin margins for manufacturers, so that’s why you bolster a system by making money from software. But in this case, there is no software with the NES, which includes all its games as part of its appeal. So that means maybe Nintendo simply wasn’t making enough money on the system as it needed to in order to justify continued production. I can maybe buy this, but the problem is that the fix is relatively easy. If there was ever a product that could easily handle a $20 price bump and still sell-out instantly, it’s the NES. The problem is that by simply pulling out of the market and discontinuing the product, Nintendo now leaves distribution at the mercy of scalpers who are selling units for hundreds, thousands of dollars over asking price. If profit was a problem, there was a better solution that simply ceasing production.

Plausibility: 6/10

6. Nintendo Is Simply Getting Bogged Down In Manufacturing

Regardless of whether or not the NES was selling well, the process of making the system may have grown too exhausting for Nintendo to keep up with. I don’t know precisely how their supply chain for the system has been going, but it stands to reason that this is also an era where they’re trying to make as many Switches as possible in order to meet huge demand for that product, so if somehow they end up having to choose between more Switches and more NES Classics because they can only handle managing so much manufacturing, I can see why the NES Classic might have to be shelved, given how vital the Switch is to their future success.

Plausibility: 8/10

7. Nintendo Is Having Rights Issues With Certain NES Games

Nintendo does not own the rights to some of the games that come with the NES Classic Edition, so some have speculated the console may be getting discontinued because of some dispute in that realm. While in theory I could see how this could be an issue, A) I don’t know if Nintendo would make a licensing deal that was going to expire in such a short time period and B) the system is still being sold outside NA for now, so you would expect a total stoppage immediately if there was a serious legal issue. Also, you might be able to just carve out whatever games needed to be cut, replace them with something else, and keep going. I just don’t imagine this is a significant factor in this decision.

Plausibility: 2/10

8. Nintendo Just Wants To Stick With Their Plan

Maybe the simplest explanation is the right one. Nintendo said this was a limited offering from the start. They stretched the limits of what they had planned to make. Now they’re done. It may seem goofy from the outside, but if continuing to focus on the NES Classic takes away from other aspects of their business that must stay on schedule, maybe they’re willing to call it a day, even as the system remains popular. Not sure this is a good idea, but it’s something I can see Nintendo doing.

Plausibility: 6/10

Those are the main reasons I’ve heard, but feel free to suggest your own. My guess? We will see the NES Classic Edition rise again, possibly by Christmas, but don’t hold me (or Nintendo) to that.

 

[+GoldenWheels]

I'd say I agree #6 and #8 make the most sense, but I'd also consider #3 strongly as a component of #6.

 

Thing is, I don't think this would involve a re-release or anything necessarily, but just that if they've decided Switch is the number 1 priority, that would be doubly true during holidays and they want to be ready for that. If junior wants a system for Christmas, he's going to get one because parents need something wrapped under the tree. And if he gets an Xbox or a PS4 instead because the Switch is sold out, those are lost "razor" sales down the line for Nintendo.

[StopDrop&Retro]

I think 4 and 5 are the most probable. At $60 the NES classic was too cheap. The success took them by surprise, they probably figured it would be something few people wanted to bother with and it would at least segway people into virtual console digital downloads. The hacking disrupted that plan, now people could download whatever they wanted. So they pulled the plug. Not enough profit margin and the hacking was robbing them of potential virtual console sales.

[Flojomojo]

it would at least segway people into virtual console digital downloads

 

[Atariboy]

I doubt the hacking of the thing caused any sort of issue for them. Heck, if it was such a problem as to kill the device, all they had to do was cut a few traces. The USB connection was only needed to power the device. It didn't need to be there, serving as an access point for hackers.

 

It's their own fault that they left a backdoor open, and easily rectifiable if they felt that it was a threat that a tiny fraction of NES Classic Editions would be hacked. And I hate to break it to Nintendo, but those buying Virtual Console downloads aren't buying them because it's the only way that they have to play a game. Piracy is a minimum threat to the VC since these games are already extremely accessible via unofficial means. People that don't want to pay, simply aren't paying.

 

Heck, it wasn't even hacked until late January. At that point the device was virtually unavailable except from resellers. I bet it was already out of production before the exploit was ever discovered.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Atariboy

[Tanooki]

 

Oh they've never done that.. we all know that. Heck I'd be surprised if they DID.. although I wouldn't complain of course

 

 

In all fairness same day and with a big ad blitz in and out of stores it launched with 10 $20 GBA NES emulator games. This EU area SNES themed handheld got nothing.

 

 

And thanks for the Forbes paste, I refuse to go there anymore since they make me turn off adblock to read.

 

#4, 5, 6, and 8 fit best on that one for good reasons for the problems on both the NES CE and so far where applies on SNES CE too.

 

[NE146]

 

In all fairness same day and with a big ad blitz in and out of stores it launched with 10 $20 GBA NES emulator games. This EU area SNES themed handheld got nothing.

 

Yes but I think he was talking about them including it with the package.. selling them for $20 a pop is way different.

[+GoldLeader]

 

In all fairness same day and with a big ad blitz in and out of stores it launched with 10 $20 GBA NES emulator games. This EU area SNES themed handheld got nothing.

 

 

And thanks for the Forbes paste, I refuse to go there anymore since they make me turn off adblock to read.

 

#4, 5, 6, and 8 fit best on that one for good reasons for the problems on both the NES CE and so far where applies on SNES CE too.

 

 

Is that why people hate on Forbes? The Adblock thing? OK That I get...It is annoying, but in a general sense they are a flagship business publication. It'd be like talking News and mentioning 60 Minutes or talking Cars and mentioning Rolls Royce; Not some fly-by-night outfit would be my point. My father owned a small business (a Very mom and pop music store) as well as dabbling in the Market, and he wanted to make money so yeah, along with Wall Street Journal, I've just always seen Forbes around, since the 70's...

[NE146]

If you really want to read something that's complaining about ad-blocking, just pop the url in IE, read it, then close it.

[+GoldLeader]

 

 

Considering how many times I've been tempted (and/or tried) to point out to the Entire Internet the differences between, THERE, THEIR, and THEY'RE, Or TO, TOO, and TWO...Well this is just much more clever and still has me laughing a bit under my breath even as I type this!

 

 

Flojomojo has won the Internet for Today!!!

[+GoldLeader]

If you really want to read something that's complaining about ad-blocking, just pop the url in IE, read it, then close it.

 

Couldn't agree more!... Also there is still a big difference between some little no name site insisting on you turning off your Adblockplus (or what have you) and FORBES asking...It's not exactly some little clickbait site telling you the IQs of celebrities or what foods you shouldn't eat* haha...

 

 

*BTW they Never tell you what foods you shouldn't eat, they just force you to watch a video which then begs for money.